BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Brickguy221 on February 24, 2015, 03:17:31 PM
-
To increase the Differential - Flare on a bowling ball, where is the best place to drill the weight hole as well as what size, how deep, direction of hole, etc?
Also on this same ball, in order to maximize the flare, should the Pin to PAP be 3 3/8 to 3 1/2 ?
And if so, will the weight hole increase the flare further?
-
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/c/c6/GradientLine.pdf
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93ZRsWbF7U
-
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/c/c6/GradientLine.pdf
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93ZRsWbF7U
I just now read in another tread about a hole to increase the back-end on a ball and JustRico said Go 6.75" from the pin and 3.375" from your pap
Would this be the same thing as the P4 hole in the Bowling Chat link posted above?
I am not the smartest tool in the shed when it comes to drilling and trying to understand charts like the link above shows. I was hoping someone could simplify an answer like JustRico did in the other tread.
-
In my opinion and others may differ, you would drill out the Mass Bias with the largest legal hole you can drill (1-3/8 I think). That with a 3 3/8 pin to pap drilling on a symmetric ball. I have heard arguments that on an asymmetric ball that flare can be increased by going further than 3-3/8 ... but there are others that disagree with those statements. I am not going to get in the middle of that argument.
Of course doing this may make the ball illegal, so someone who knows what they are doing needs to make sure you have legal static weights when done.
Additionally, Mo has a layout called the double thumb layout which is considered the highest flaring layout possible ... at least that I know of.
Other arguments state that increasing the differential beyond the legal 0.06 limit has very little effect on the hook potential of the ball. Sort of like diminishing returns.
In Brunsnick's video the largest flare increasing hole isn't on the gradient line, but basically perpendicular to the gradient line (unless you have an unusual PAP). The P4 hole would be closer to the 2 -1/4 down the VAL line drilling in the video.
So like I say opinions vary. Probably not the answer you are looking for. I think either the P4 hole or the 6 3/4 hole would give you a large amount of flare, even if it technically isn't the largest possible.
Either way you want the biggest hole that is deep, because you want to take out part of the core. Essentially changing the shape of the core to a taller skinnier shape.
I'm sure someone will correct me if they disagree.
-
First and foremost is the amount of flare created by pin to pap distance...and keep in mind, more flare is not always good as too much creates instability or over-flaring
Wright holes and mass bias positions only effect existing flare created by pin to pap distance
The strongest position for a weight hole on a symmetrical core ball is 6.75" from the primary pin or low RG axis and 3.375" from pap
On a asymmetrical core ball, defendant on existing drilled flare and how mass boss is created, a weight hole in the mass bias will increase diff or flare
-
Rick, I am looking at a symmetrical ball with a low Differential of .023 and 3" of flare in a 13# ball. I do better with balls with differentials in the area of .045 or a bit less to .055. ... So the reason for my question is to see if I can raise the Differential and flare on this low Differental - low flare ball and how much.
Would that 6.75" x 3 3.75" wt hole get me close to .045 differential or a bit less maybe?
-
Where's the pin to pap?
-
Or why are using this ball if it's not really what you want diff wise?
-
I am wanting to "maybe" buy it to fill a hole in my arsenal if the differential & flare can be raised as well as square up and move outside a bit when the condition calls for it, depending on how much the Differential & flare can be raised. It's length-hook-backend ratings are good nos for me.
-
Is it new?
-
Is it new?
http://www.motivbowling.com/products/balls/venom-panic.html
-
I would lay it out with a similar favorite layout and throw it first befor adding a weight hole to adjust reaction...
-
I would lay it out with a similar favorite layout and throw it first befor adding a weight hole to adjust reaction...
Rick, in order to get the most differental - flare, should I place Pin 3.375 - 3.5 inches from PAP to start? My PAP is 4 x 1/4 up. I was given a suggestion of 45 x 4 x 45 with wt hole 2" down the VAL
-
Worry less abt the flare and more abt what you want the ball to do...if you wanting play and down & in shot I would do weird a 4-4.25" pin to pap and then throw it...if you need more reaction either adjust surface and/or add a adjusting weight hole
-
In my opinion and others may differ, you would drill out the Mass Bias with the largest legal hole you can drill (1-3/8 I think). That with a 3 3/8 pin to pap drilling on a symmetric ball. I have heard arguments that on an asymmetric ball that flare can be increased by going further than 3-3/8 ... but there are others that disagree with those statements.
Maximum allowed size for a balance hole is 1 1/4".
-
First and foremost is the amount of flare created by pin to pap distance...and keep in mind, more flare is not always good as too much creates instability or over-flaring
Wright holes and mass bias positions only effect existing flare created by pin to pap distance
The strongest position for a weight hole on a symmetrical core ball is 6.75" from the primary pin or low RG axis and 3.375" from pap
On a asymmetrical core ball, defendant on existing drilled flare and how mass boss is created, a weight hole in the mass bias will increase diff or flare
Not trying to be a PITA here, but 6.75 from the Pin and 3.375 from the PAP can be at two different places on the ball. One would be more towards your grip center and one more away from your grip center (relative to your PAP). Isn't that correct? Does it matter which direction you go?
-
If you draw circles around both points, one 3.375" around the pap and the other, 6.75" around the pin, where those two circles dissect is where to place the hole
-
If you draw circles around both points, one 3.375" around the pap and the other, 6.75" around the pin, where those two circles dissect is where to place the hole
So are you assuming a 3.375 Pin to PAP distance? Because for me I get two intersection points for all pin to PAP distances between 3.375 and 6.75, and none for P2P distances less than 3.375 and greater than 6.75 (which probably don't exist).
-
I'm not assuming anything
-
If you draw circles around both points, one 3.375" around the pap and the other, 6.75" around the pin, where those two circles dissect is where to place the hole
So are you assuming a 3.375 Pin to PAP distance? Because for me I get two intersection points for all pin to PAP distances between 3.375 and 6.75, and none for P2P distances less than 3.375 and greater than 6.75 (which probably don't exist).
I think you would want the hole on the left side of the VAL. More toward your grip.
-
I think you would want the hole on the left side of the VAL. More toward your grip.
According to Brunswick, closer to the grip center to reduce flare, and past the Val for more flare as described below. Although I would prefer to clean that up by saying closer to the primary pin from your PAP for less flare (going alone a line drawn from your PAP to the Pin), and further away from your PAP for more flare. My understanding is that as your drill the hole closer to the pin, you take out material from the top of the core, and make the core shorter and fatter, thus less differential and hook. Going past your PAP would be drilling more from the center of the core, increasing the differential and the track flare.
"Brunswick is recommending a simplified one-hole size/ two-hole position technique that covers the vast majority of ball reaction changes that can be accomplished by drilling an X-hole.
Use a 1" drill bit, 3" deep, to both increase or decrease track flare
Note: Larger and deeper X-holes result only in slightly greater increases or decreases in track flare. The one-hole size technique has the added advantage of avoiding problems with illegal static weights. As long as the ball was originally laid out with at least 3/4 oz of positive side weight and a small amount of finger/thumb weight, the 1" X 3" hole using either of Brunswick's recommended X-hole positions will keep you out of static weight trouble.
Brunswick recommends using a position 2 1/4" past the bowlers axis to increase flare, and using a position 2 1/4" back toward the pin to decrease flare. Using the line connecting the bowlers "axis" and the "pin" as reference line (see Diagram). The X-holes should be on or slightly below the reference line (holes on the line will sometimes drop the narrow point of the track and cause the track to flare over the finger holes)."
-
Anywhere 6.75 " from the pin is going to increase the flare. I'm not completely sure on why the 3.375" from the PAP for the hole, but I think it is making the best use of the asymmetry that is created by the hole.
JustRico, can you explain this further?
-
First of all, the Brunswick, info there's a good chance I wrote that for them 10 or so years ago while I was employed there
3.375" from the pap is the strongest position for the core to create max flare potential and for a weight hole to increase flare
-
I have an off the wall idea, why not just drill a ball that already has more differential?? I know it's kind of a crazy idea, and there aren't hardly any releases throughout a year, that offer different RG and differential combos's as well as cover choices from different manufactures, to be able to pick a ball that would be more suitable for the intended purpose. Just sayin' :D 8)