Post by: 1-2-3 on May 24, 2004, 12:09:14 AM
Here’s the promised update on the right ball and drilling for dry lanes.
(Read original post below)
I went to my driller and found he couldn’t get the Sonic X Pearl from his distributor. So I selected the Centaur from Visionary. After discussing what I wanted to do, my driller checked my PAP and said it was 5 ½ by ¼ up. (The last ball he drilled for me my PAP was 5 by ¼ up.) To get the pin above the fingers, he said the pin to PAP would need to be 6â€. The Centaur had 3.33 oz of top weight and a pin of 3 inches. Also if you draw a line from the pin to the MB the CG is about ¼ inch to the right. With this stacked layout the thumb hole took out the MB locator pin. I didn’t change the ball surface and of course no extra hole was needed.
I practiced a few games and found the ball very controlled for the dry lanes. I could stand in the middle of the lanes and throw the second arrow much like what I’m use to. If I missed inside my mark and got into what little oil was on the lanes I’d leave the 2 - 8. If I sent the ball wide it would hook to the Brooklyn side of the pocket. Of course this was in practice and not with nine other guys throwing the same line.
On the first night of leagues the lanes seemed drier than they were in practice and the ball was burning up before it could get to the pocket and didn’t have any pop left for the pins. I was pretty sure the surface needed a shine to overcome this condition. Before the next week’s league night I shined the ball with Neo-Tac Control-It. This helped tremendously. The ball had much more pop when it hit the pins and reacted much better if I missed to the outside of my mark.
All in all, this layout with this ball allows me to play the dry shot much like I would a more traditional house shot. The drawbacks so far have been that I don’t have a very large strike area (better a little outside my mark than inside.) and the ball rolls over the finger and/or thumbholes occasionally. I can’t tell which hole because of the dry shot no oil comes back on the ball and there aren’t any signs of a track yet. I’ve never had this problem with a ball that had the pin above my fingers. Would an extra hole strategically placed help with this? My driller recommended I point my thumb at the pins when I hold and then release the ball. This does help prevent the thumping of the holes but I’m not 100% comfortable with this release yet. Any other suggestions are welcomed.
I would also like to mention that I’m really happy with the Visionary Ball. When I throw it right the ball reacts very consistently and hits like a truck. (I just had to add the truck comment for all the regular post readers.) I’d like to try one of the Gargoyles, but will wait till next year. I’ve heard the owners of the lanes are going to install synthetic lanes next year. Maybe they’ll spring for more oil too!
Thanks again for all those that helped me with my situation.
ORIGINAL POST:
I've been bowled in a different house for a couple years now and need some advice on what ball and drilling layout I should use for these very dry lanes.
The lanes are old wood with a thin oil pattern from 10 to 10 and dry outside of that. The length of oil is only 26 feet. The shot seems to stay pretty consistent for our three game shift, but my end of year average for each game shows the first game is highest (211), second game (209) and last game (199). I think this drop is due mainly to the fact that I have to throw so hard, by the third game I’m wore out and lose my accuracy, especially for spares.
I've been reading everything on this forum about balls and drilling layouts. I've read LuckyLefty’s novella post several times and hopefully I've “figured out†what I should do. (Add me to the list of people wanting to thank him for his time and information!) But I’d like some reassurance before I make the investment. I read all these posts and everyone talks about buying three or four balls a season. I feel lucky to get one ball a season, so I have to make it count.
When I started bowling in this house I bought a Storm Blaze and had it drilled with Storm’s #1 layout (5†pin to PAP). Although this worked better than my Trauma ER it still seemed to start turning up to the pocket as soon as I let go of it, virtually no skid. I then had an old Hammer 3D Offset-Super Flip plugged and redrilled with 5-1/2†pin to PAP and the mass bias left of my thumbhole. While it did skid further I think the flip weight block caused it to be a little unpredictable and extreme in its reaction.
This last season I bought an X-Factor Reloaded to replace my Trauma ER, which I use in a different house that has much more oil. I tired the Reloaded just to see what it would do on the dry lanes. The Reloaded is drilled with Storms #4 layout (3-3/8†pin to PAP). It worked the best and most consistent of anything I have. It still hooks way too much for these dry lanes but I try not to put too much fingers in the shot and keep behind the ball and push it out to the gutter as far down the lanes as I can. A very deep, inside swinging shot. Not my usual down and in line.
My stats are that I’m right-handed, high track with medium-high speed and medium revs. I think my axis rotation is somewhere from 35 to 45 degrees. (Based on the description in LuckyLefty’s post.) I’m not sure what my PAP measurement is exactly; my track is within an 1/8 inch and to the left of my middle finger and about a 1/4 inch and to the left of the thumbhole.
What I've “figured out†and am thinking about buying:
Visionary’s Slate Blue Gargoyle with at least a 4†Pin Out and at least 3-1/2 oz of topweight.
The drilling layout would be with the pin above the finger holes (6-1/2†pin to PAP?) and the CG in the grip center as close as possible. (Stacked?)
Whatever the pin to PAP measurement will be I want the pin above the middle of my fingers at the very least. (What would it do if the pin was more to the left or above my middle finger?) The layouts I mentioned above with 5 or 5-1/2†pin to PAP only place the pin slightly above and just to the right of my ring finger. They were both about 3-1/2†pin out balls.
My line of thought is that the 6â€+ pin to PAP will give me the most skid (Length) and the urethane will help control the hook back to the pocket. Also with the ball having 4†Pin Out I think the pin will be close to my first track ring. I remember reading something about that.
I chose the Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle because it was one of only two pearl urethane balls that have a decent core. Some of the guys I bowl with in the dry house purchased Hammer’s new red urethane ball. But they leave a lot of corners, 5 pins and 5-7 & 5-10 splits with it. I think it’s because of the pancake weightblock. I looked at Lane #1’s XXL Urethane Pearl but the difference in price was the deciding factor.
Well there’s my situation, I hope it’s interesting enough for someone to respond back.
Thanks, in advance, to all that do.
Edited on 9/13/2004 12:12 PM
Edited on 9/13/2004 12:30 PM
Post by: JohnP on May 24, 2004, 06:07:18 PM
DISCLAIMER: I have not bought anything on e-bay or from this seller.
I think the Hammer would be an ideal solution for that third game at a price that might allow you to buy another ball this year. You can even use it as a spare ball when you run into heavier oil. Good luck. -- JohnP
Added on edit: It had been a few weeks since I had looked for the Hammers on e-bay. I went there just now and could not find any for sale, maybe the guy that had them sold them all. Sorry.
Edited on 5/24/2004 6:29 PM
Post by: pjr300 on May 24, 2004, 08:57:38 PM
I have the same struggles. I can score as the heads break down, but when they get dry I cannot coeectly adjust... everything just turns up too quick, especially on synthetics. I tried a Storm Trauma, a few others, just can't can't seem to find the right dry lanes layout-ball combo...
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 26, 2004, 06:51:13 AM
Short oil with flying backends. Boy one can't beat a Sonic X pearl drilled strong. Great midlane surprising little curl and hit at back.
Short oil but one wants backend, any of the Scout reactives, Wilds, Tornados or power grooves will go dead straight for about 10 feet past the pattern oil and then turn hard and cover a lot of boards!
At times these balls are as strong as medium balls in the back but they will push to the breakpoint due to high rg. At the sniff of carrydown they disappear no backend!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: MTFD24 on May 26, 2004, 07:00:58 AM
SonicX pearl has been great for me in those conditions. Also have seen many use the Power Groove, including B.Angelo at the local Masters when the shot broke down.
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The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
Post by: charlest on May 26, 2004, 08:52:19 AM
quote:
What I've “figured out†and am thinking about buying:
Visionary’s Slate Blue Gargoyle with at least a 4†Pin Out and at least 3-1/2 oz of topweight.
The drilling layout would be with the pin above the finger holes (6-1/2†pin to PAP?) and the CG in the grip center as close as possible. (Stacked?)
Whatever the pin to PAP measurement will be I want the pin above the middle of my fingers at the very least. My line of thought is that the 6â€+ pin to PAP will give me the most skid (Length) and the urethane will help control the hook back to the pocket. ...
I chose the Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle because it was one of only two pearl urethane balls that have a decent core. Some of the guys I bowl with in the dry house purchased Hammer’s new red urethane ball. But they leave a lot of corners, 5 pins and 5-7 & 5-10 splits with it. I think it’s because of the pancake weightblock. ...
Thanks, in advance, to all that do.
1-2-3,
I'm afraid that my personal opinion is that it's not always as easy as 1,2,3.
It looks like you have used all fairly strong balls on this dry condition and your average is a good testament to your skills and ball speed.
You can't and shouldn't say such things as, "no matter what the ball is, I want the pin above the bridge." While for most balls that will add to the length (because it increases the drilled RG value), it is not always appropriate to the ball, the condition or the bowler's release. Some balls like the recommended Sonic-X come with a high RG; some come even higher, like the Power Groove. Don't forget that putting the pin above the bridge usually requires a longer pin-CG distance. That, in turn, results in more flare and more hook.
Drilling, as I'm sure LuckyLefty would agree, is 50% skill, 50% art, and 50% witchcraft & luck. (Yes, it adds to 150%, but I'm just emphasizing the point.)
I am inclined to suggest trying some other very mild resin balls, like the Sonic-X, over a pearlized Urethane. Remember that, while the pearl urethane will have a very controlled backend and the Slate Blue's dynamic 2-piece core is s good thing, you still won't get the apparent length that you will get from a resin; urethanes, pearl or solid, just roll earlier than resins. AND you do not get the hitting power of resins.
FYI the new Columbia Trooper is also a pearl urethane with a dynamic core.
Other potential very mild resins are the Dyno-Thane Barrage, AMF Scamp, Storm Big Hit. There are also balls with very mild resin coverstocks with old fashioned pancake cores, like the Ebonite Tornado Warning and the Storm Hit series.
None of these mild resins require the pin above the bridge drilling to get length, very mild backend and control on most dry lane conditions. My speed is lower than yours and my revs are above average, yet I several balls with the pin at or below the bridge and their length is more than acceptable on dry lanes conditions. Mine include a 15 lb and a 16 lb Barrage, & a Monster SlayR.
--------------------
"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 5/26/2004 8:53 AM
Post by: 1-2-3 on May 26, 2004, 08:57:33 AM
I just looked at the Sonic X Pearl. I guess just from reading posts on dry lanes and based on what balls I've used, I was afraid the reactives would be too snappy and only focused on urethanes, thinking they would reduce the snap. A guy on another team bought a chrome/yellow Power Groove near the end of the year and it snapped pretty hard, but he really cranks the ball. I was thinking the 6-1/2" pin to PAP and the urethane cover would let me throw a more "natural" shot on these dry lanes. (I'm not comfortable with swinging the ball across so many boards.)
LuckyLefty, when you say "drilled strong" does what I've suggested fall into that description or is that only 3-3/8" pin to PAP? As I mentioned in the post above I used a Reloaded drilled 3-3/8" most of this year on these conditions with acceptable results if I kept my fingers out of the shot.
Thanks again JohnP, pjr300, MTFD24 & LuckyLefty for your insight.
Thanks too Charlest I'll check out those other mild resins.
Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???
Edited on 5/26/2004 9:08 AM
Post by: Nodsleinad on May 26, 2004, 09:24:35 AM
One thing i notice is that you use some agressive equipment for normal shots and then trying to use them on dry of course is going to be tuff. A few ?'s. Where do u like to play, where are those who score playing and can u move there? If you drill 6"+ pin position you will get length but you remove a lot of the carry corner potential unless you have monster hand. Also your last game average is not that bad. Perhaps you get tired, perhaps a speed increase or hand change will assist you in reaching your goals
Nod
Post by: anotherwindup on May 26, 2004, 10:04:47 AM
quote:
I've been bowled in a different house for a couple years now and need some advice on what ball and drilling layout I should use for these very dry lanes.
The lanes are old wood with a thin oil pattern from 10 to 10 and dry outside of that. The length of oil is only 26 feet. The shot seems to stay pretty consistent for our three game shift, but my end of year average for each game shows the first game is highest (211), second game (209) and last game (199). I think this drop is due mainly to the fact that I have to throw so hard, by the third game I’m wore out and lose my accuracy, especially for spares.
I've been reading everything on this forum about balls and drilling layouts. I've read LuckyLefty’s novella post several times and hopefully I've “figured out†what I should do. (Add me to the list of people wanting to thank him for his time and information!) But I’d like some reassurance before I make the investment. I read all these posts and everyone talks about buying three or four balls a season. I feel lucky to get one ball a season, so I have to make it count.
When I started bowling in this house I bought a Storm Blaze and had it drilled with Storm’s #1 layout (5†pin to PAP). Although this worked better than my Trauma ER it still seemed to start turning up to the pocket as soon as I let go of it, virtually no skid. I then had an old Hammer 3D Offset-Super Flip plugged and redrilled with 5-1/2†pin to PAP and the mass bias left of my thumbhole. While it did skid further I think the flip weight block caused it to be a little unpredictable and extreme in its reaction.
This last season I bought an X-Factor Reloaded to replace my Trauma ER, which I use in a different house that has much more oil. I tired the Reloaded just to see what it would do on the dry lanes. The Reloaded is drilled with Storms #4 layout (3-3/8†pin to PAP). It worked the best and most consistent of anything I have. It still hooks way too much for these dry lanes but I try not to put too much fingers in the shot and keep behind the ball and push it out to the gutter as far down the lanes as I can. A very deep, inside swinging shot. Not my usual down and in line.
My stats are that I’m right-handed, high track with medium-high speed and medium revs. I think my axis rotation is somewhere from 35 to 45 degrees. (Based on the description in LuckyLefty’s post.) I’m not sure what my PAP measurement is exactly; my track is within an 1/8 inch and to the left of my middle finger and about a 1/4 inch and to the left of the thumbhole.
What I've “figured out†and am thinking about buying:
Visionary’s Slate Blue Gargoyle with at least a 4†Pin Out and at least 3-1/2 oz of topweight.
The drilling layout would be with the pin above the finger holes (6-1/2†pin to PAP?) and the CG in the grip center as close as possible. (Stacked?)
Whatever the pin to PAP measurement will be I want the pin above the middle of my fingers at the very least. (What would it do if the pin was more to the left or above my middle finger?) The layouts I mentioned above with 5 or 5-1/2†pin to PAP only place the pin slightly above and just to the right of my ring finger. They were both about 3-1/2†pin out balls.
My line of thought is that the 6â€+ pin to PAP will give me the most skid (Length) and the urethane will help control the hook back to the pocket. Also with the ball having 4†Pin Out I think the pin will be close to my first track ring. I remember reading something about that.
I chose the Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle because it was one of only two pearl urethane balls that have a decent core. Some of the guys I bowl with in the dry house purchased Hammer’s new red urethane ball. But they leave a lot of corners, 5 pins and 5-7 & 5-10 splits with it. I think it’s because of the pancake weightblock. I looked at Lane #1’s XXL Urethane Pearl but the difference in price was the deciding factor.
Well there’s my situation, I hope it’s interesting enough for someone to respond back.
Thanks, in advance, to all that do.
1-2-3,
It appears that you may be confused about PIN to PAP distances. What is you POSITIVE AXIS POINT? If you don't know, then there is NO way to measure pin distances. For example, I am 5 1/4" R PAP. When I put a pin at 5 1/2" the pin then falls above the bridge. (or below) Pin to PAP distance determines location of pin, NOT viseversa.
Now, my personal opinion would be to go with either a very weak resin, drilled weak, or a pearl urethane drilled stronger.
Also- a longer pin ball- 4" between the pin and the CG will cause more flare, resulting in skid/snap type hook, but more overall hook. A pin-in ball, 1" or less, may work as well.
--------------------
Jason Jenkins
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"
Post by: 1-2-3 on May 26, 2004, 10:54:15 AM
I'm a down and in type of bowler. Probably because of where I've bowled for 15+ years, that was the shot. I'm most comfortable with standing in the center, or slightly left, and aiming at anywhere from 10 to 5. That is my "A" game.
When I started at this "dry" house there was no way to use that line. I kept moving left (5 boards at a time) until I found something that didn't cross over. I moved my mark in to around 15 and I stand at 10 on the approach, but by the third game I'm usually standing at 15. (No doubt I'm tired from throwing so hard.) I've also found it helps to angle my shoulders (open my right shoulder?) by facing and walking towards the ten pin. (I end up at the center dot at the foul line.)
You asked about where other bowler play and could I move there. The funny thing about those I bowl with in this league; few stand as far left as I do. The couple that do are the crankers. Everyone else seems to stand pretty much near the center and throws for 10 or 5. This is were I'd like to be, but I've even tried someone's plastic 10-pin ball and it hooked too much. Also they're not all throwing White-Dots either, some have aggressive stuff.
I was hoping that a different ball, for dry lanes, would let me pace myself better and last through three games and bring my average up. I average at least 10 pins better in my old house. I know I could do better if I weren't constantly fighting the hook.
Thanks, Nod, for your help.
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Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 26, 2004, 11:08:00 AM
Yes, a power groove is very strong. Differential is near .40 and 3 to 4 inches of flare can be generated(a lot of boards in back). The high rg delays the move.
A pearl sonic x on the other hand is very weak! Diff of .20 or 1 to 2 inches of flare.
Being medium handed I have found that drilling weak balls weak does not work for me. As a basic philosophy that usually works pretty well.
I drill medium balls anywhere(diff .35 to .45) strong balls(diff .45 and up) a little weaker, and weak balls stronger!
My Sonic X pearl is drilled 4 1/4 X 3 1/2 with a stabilizing weighthole.
It has no snap but a nice midlane and a little curl that really rips the rack until the shot gets closer to medium.
It would definitely work on a shot of probably 26 feet!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: Nodsleinad on May 26, 2004, 11:12:11 AM
Nod
Edited on 5/28/2004 8:14 AM
Post by: 1-2-3 on May 26, 2004, 11:22:32 AM
My driller knows what my PAP measures, but with this being summer time it's hard to get in touch with him. All I can relate to you is that when he drilled my Blaze with Storm’s #1 layout (5†pin to PAP) and then an old 3D Hammer Super Flip with 5-1/2†pin to PAP and the mass bias left of my thumbhole, (both were 3-1/2" pin out balls), the pin ended up slightly right and up from the ring finger.
I was using these two balls as benchmarks as to what pin to PAP measurement (6-1/2" guessing) would be needed to get the Pin above and in the middle of the finger holes. I know 5" and 5-1/2" pin to PAP didn't come close.
I thought I was saying the correct thing, but I'm still learning. There seems to be so many ways to say the same thing. Should I've said the layout was 5" PAP to pin?
Thanks anotherwindup, for the feedback.
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Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???
Post by: 1-2-3 on May 26, 2004, 12:03:32 PM
I may have mislead you when I stated I stand at 10 or 15 on the approach. I think of where I stand in relation to the center of the lane. When I said 10 or 15 it was 10 or 15 boards left of the center. I make my adjustments left and right of the center of the approach. Sorry about that, I guess I should have said 30 or 35 is where I stand on the approach and shooting for 15 on the lanes (third arrow). If I go any deeper than 21+, I can't get the ball to swing out far enough before it starts to hook and it generally goes brooklyn or worse goes through the nose.
The biggest problem I have is getting the ball to slide out towards the gutter far enough before it starts to hook. If it doesn't get out to about 5, I'm in trouble.
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Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???
Post by: Nodsleinad on May 26, 2004, 01:56:46 PM
See my link for balls i had drilled for length and med / dry and the all read to early. I drilled a ball a month ago for length and flip off Mo's sheets and it is far better.
http://www.princetonbowl.com/For%20sale.htm
Nod
Edited on 5/26/2004 1:56 PM
Post by: janderson on May 26, 2004, 02:51:43 PM
quote:
Another drilling i use on wet / dry or dry shots with a mild ball is similar to old axis weight, is lo-rg drillings. The ball will roll earlier but have very mild readable backends. 1-1/2 x 90degrees for example. As long as you have enuff speed it will hit and mix emup real well.
This is usually a good plan to try, but with the conditions 1-2-3 is stating, we're talking about very short (26 feet) oil. There's a good chance that the ball would roll out as it leaves the midlane and be dead on arrival unless the shell is very weak or the ball is thrown pretty fast (but then, you can overcome just about any super-dry condition by throwing the ball 30mph). However, Nod's suggestion is sound: consider drilling a ball that doesn't give you length with snap, but length with arc to tone down the back-end, we want strikes, not 4-6's.
As a "next step down" from an axis layout with arc, consider a 315 degree layout (http://www.rollrite.co.uk/secrets.php?id=11) combined with a weak shell.
For some ball comparison, despite very weak drillings, both my power groove (pearl reactive) and Sonic X are strong in terms of overall boards covered, though the Sonic X gets more length before it turns in. My Barrage, V2 Dry, and Big Hit are all weaker (in terms of boards covered) with more length.
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Kill the back row
Edited on 5/26/2004 2:50 PM
Post by: charlest on May 26, 2004, 03:02:36 PM
quote:
Thanks too Charlest I'll check out those other mild resins.
Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???
Basically, too damned many variables ....
Good luck.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: pjr300 on May 27, 2004, 08:58:03 PM
quote:
... See BTM June 03 for some great layouts. Do not use the standard drill charts most companies give you for Symetric balls. Mo Pinel published some that work great in the Bowling this Month I mentioned.
Hey Nod, good post. However, I went back to the June 03 BTM and looked at the Mo column. The aricle was more general on layouts.... can you provide more specifics on what you did with your layouts?
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: Nodsleinad on May 28, 2004, 08:23:06 AM
Nod
Post by: omegabowler on May 28, 2004, 09:27:06 AM
dry is dry and equipment can only get you so far. you have to learn to play 4th,5th maybe 6th arrow if you want great carry and hit at the pins.
if you want to stay with just an up the lanes shot and keep it in the pocket try a pin on PAP layout.
in both cases a Highly polished ball, resin pearl most likely. but there is a particle ball, the V2 dry that is very playable on short patterns.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: pjr300 on May 28, 2004, 09:28:23 AM
Do you use that layout for total dry as well as medium dry?
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Edited on 5/28/2004 9:30 AM
Post by: Nodsleinad on May 28, 2004, 09:40:50 AM
Nod
Edited on 5/28/2004 10:32 AM
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on May 31, 2004, 02:03:21 PM
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: 1-2-3 on June 01, 2004, 06:57:16 PM
What I’ve gleaned from the conversations is that I should be considering a mild resin reactive with a low differential (.02) and a high RG (2.60) such as the Sonic X pearl.
Not the pearl urethane I thought would be the ticket, although I’m keeping my eye on the reviews of Visionary’s Centaur, it has the same stats as the Sonic X, although not a pearl. I wouldn’t mind trying something from them. From the reviews posted, they seem to make well-liked products. (It’s also fun to have something nobody else does.)(If you’re bowling well.)
The next bit of information is the drilling layout. Here there’s not as a precise choice. But it is obvious that I was the only one that liked the 6-1/2†pin to PAP (pin above middle of fingers). It seemed the consensus was that this was too weak of a layout for such a weak ball.
My gut feeling is that if I select a much stronger layout it will hook too much. I’ve used a friend’s plastic spare ball and it hooked plenty. Problem with it was after about three or four frames of using it, I’d start leaving weird splits or single pins in the back row.
I want something less than I have with my current equipment. So I’m going to throw caution to the wind and try this weak layout. Who knows, maybe it’ll only be 6†or 5-3/4†pin to PAP to get the pin above my fingers.
(Or maybe it will become a very expensive spare ball.)
The only way I won’t do this is if my driller, who’s seen me bowl, says it’s a big mistake. (Then everyone out there can give me the old "I told you so!")
Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and I’ll post a review on what I find out.
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Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on June 01, 2004, 07:38:32 PM
--------------------
16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: pjr300 on June 01, 2004, 07:53:35 PM
Keep us posted... report your results here! This has been a good thread.
I know a lot of folks use the 5" layouts, but for me (being hand challenged) they don't work well... I can't get the ball to react with any gusto. The 105* layout works well for me until they get really toasted.
I am very interested in the 25* layouts from the Kim Adler site as posted by Brian N. I have plans to try them on either a HotWire or a Time Zone.
--------------------
pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: pjr300 on June 05, 2004, 12:51:53 AM
quote:
.... To throw another opinion into the mix - I recently learned something really cool that I only half-expected to work. I got ....
"1st drilling type: 4" pin out from CG (at least) to get the pin way way high above the fingers, about 5†from the axis, CG swung out to 20-25 degrees (so you cannot have a huge amount of topweight ... try to keep the XH on the smaller, deeper side, about 1.5†past the axis.) This works well in medium coverstocks, and will allow you to do 2 opposite things based upon ball surface - play up the dirt with more speed and stay there when other balls run out, and allow you to open the lane up more with scuff. "
... It behaves just like she says. This is a much more readable layout for me than axis-anything. I don't think I'd stood right of 20 in over 15 years until I used this. I am currently infatuated with this in situations where you can play direct.
Brian, I am curious on what ball you used with this layout. I want to give it a try, but not sure if I should go moderately aggressive with the shell (Inferno), moderately weak (Blazing Inferno), or ultra weak (Sonic X, Big Hit). The drillling takes out a lot of pop.... I don't know how weak to go with the shell. Any hints would be great! Thx...
--------------------
pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 05, 2004, 01:43:41 AM
Plastic creates carrydown quick! The pros use it practice to try to quickly blend out harsh transitions.
But once that carrydown starts if you are using a neutral drilled plastic.
Straight over label for spares.
There are no dynamics from the core and thus almost no flare, therefore once there is wet stuff at back plastic with no flare has no grab. Believe me, plastic set up with some moderate dynamics even if just a pancake block will create some flare. I know, I have one that didn't want to hit 7 pin the other night!
But again a little more flare but not much hit on carrydown of anytype.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS you are going to have to make a decision. Strong drilling on weak resin or weaker drilling on weak resin. Or pearl urethane. (very slow movement in responding to dry). I again have found that significantly drilling weaker than my other medium stuff is drilled (that usually works for me) on a weak ball makes it a very very seldom used specialty ball.
PPS A general rule is if you carry 3 balls don't do it! If you carry 6 balls to a tournament this weak drilling on a weak ball will often only be used to add to the weight of the stuff you bring in. But on the day you really need it, it will be there well rested to do it's job!
Post by: pjr300 on June 05, 2004, 08:22:52 AM
Well I have a weak drilled medium ball (105* Threat, as listed on my profile). It is absolutely great when the mid lane is breaking down. However, am still struggling to find the right combo for when the heads are gone too. Maybe I should try that 25* drill on a medium ball... kind of a weaker version of the Threat.
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: pjr300 on June 05, 2004, 10:20:21 AM
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Edited on 6/7/2004 8:48 PM
Post by: 1-2-3 on September 13, 2004, 12:29:13 PM
Thanks to everyone.
quote:
Keep us posted... report your results here! This has been a good thread.
I know a lot of folks use the 5" layouts, but for me (being hand challenged) they don't work well... I can't get the ball to react with any gusto. The 105* layout works well for me until they get really toasted.
I am very interested in the 25* layouts from the Kim Adler site as posted by Brian N. I have plans to try them on either a HotWire or a Time Zone.
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
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Why can't it be as easy as 1-2-3???