Author Topic: offset thumb (Read 9785 times)

FrontTwelv · « **on:** February 05, 2009, 02:18:37 AM »

i realize offsetting thumb just changes pitches. yeh yeh, but i can't seem to get that great feel by just moving pitches around lining the thumb up with the bridge. BUT, when I offset the thumb 1/4 inch left (right hander) i tend to hang up unless i make the thumb larger. should i adj my pitch a full 1/4" left?
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH

Kid Jete · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2009, 09:42:32 PM »

quote:
It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP

I probably should have just answered the question in my post but...

The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.

Edited on 2/11/2009 10:44 PM

Juggernaut · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:07:00 PM »

quote:
quote:
It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP

I probably should have just answered the question in my post but...

The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.

Edited on 2/11/2009 10:44 PM

All I know is, with just the longer ring finger span, my thumb wouldn't clear the hole well, no matter what pitch was in it. Also my thumb has mild arthritis in it and was sore the day after bowling from the stress of the angle it was in in the ball.

Now, with what is called an "offset" thumbhole, all the spans are exactly the same as before, yet my thumb has no problem clearing the hole and is hardly ever sore the next day. And I'm not talking sore from friction, I'm talking about stiffness in the joint itself.

My drilling looks more like the third picture (not quite THAT much offset), while my old drilling looked more like the second. Don't really know exactly what the geometrical differences are, but my thumb can definitely tell the difference.
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Norm Duke was right

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Kid Jete · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:19:05 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
It looks like the MF span on each is the same but the RF span increases from the first to the second to the third pictures. -- JohnP

I probably should have just answered the question in my post but...

The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.

Edited on 2/11/2009 10:44 PM

All I know is, with just the longer ring finger span, my thumb wouldn't clear the hole well, no matter what pitch was in it. Also my thumb has mild arthritis in it and was sore the day after bowling from the stress of the angle it was in in the ball.

Now, with what is called an "offset" thumbhole, all the spans are exactly the same as before, yet my thumb has no problem clearing the hole and is hardly ever sore the next day. And I'm not talking sore from friction, I'm talking about stiffness in the joint itself.

My drilling looks more like the third picture (not quite THAT much offset), while my old drilling looked more like the second. Don't really know exactly what the geometrical differences are, but my thumb can definitely tell the difference.
--------------------
Norm Duke was right

Good transactions list in my profile

My Bowl.com member page

Not sure... maybe the position you put the grips and tape in? Measurements and drill pattern are exactly the same so it really shouldn't be that. Might even be the pitches are different when you drill the other way because instead of setting pitches with the thumb appearing in the center of the fingers you're doing it with the thumb under the middle finger. Anyway obviously something is being done different when you do it the way that feels best.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:27:45 PM »

quote:

Not sure... maybe the position you put the grips and tape in? Measurements and drill pattern are exactly the same so it really shouldn't be that. Might even be the pitches are different when you drill the other way because instead of setting pitches with the thumb appearing in the center of the fingers you're doing it with the thumb under the middle finger. Anyway obviously something is being done different when you do it the way that feels best.

Believe me, I was a nerd in school, and very good at plane geometry, so I was confused by this as well. While the pure measurements are the same, there seems to be something inherently different about the gripping angles and insertion angles of my thumb. That is also why I can't begin to tell you WHY it works, only that it does. It should be just the same thing achieved through different means, but it doesn't feel that way to my hand.

It probably has something to do with geometry on different planes simultaneously. Being as the ball is a spherical object may have something to do with it. Simply moving the hole placement on a round object would inherently change the holes pitch angle in relation to the center of the ball and may make more difference than we realize

It could be the grip angle, it could be the thumbs insertion point, heck, it could be anything I guess. Whatever it is, it works for me.
--------------------
Norm Duke was right

Good transactions list in my profile

My Bowl.com member page

Edited on 2/11/2009 11:31 PM

batbowler · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:42:06 PM »

I like Brunsnick's post:http://brunsnick.com/offset.jpg, cuz that's what I always tell everybody! The span is still the same and it's not really an offset thumb, just gives the appearance of being offset! Just my $02, Bruce
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"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will "BOWL UP A STORM AND BE KING OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it."
Roto Grip - Storm : What else do you need?
Bruce Campbell
www.rotogrip.com
www.rotogear.com

Edited on 2/11/2009 11:42 PM

strikeking · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:09:45 AM »

FYI
Inprevious posts: "index" should be "middle" I need a proof reader. Sorry for the dumb mistake.
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Strikeking

JohnP · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:58:11 AM »

quote:
The first is normal the last two are exactly the same I just rotated the third so it looks "offset". In actuality lengthening the ring finger just gives the thumb the appearance of being offset to the left when the fingers are inline.

No, in the first drawing the two spans are the same. In the subsequent drawings the RF span is increasingly longer than the MF span. If you don't believe this, measure the distances on your screen. -- JohnP

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2009, 10:29:36 AM »

quote:
I like Brunsnick's post:http://brunsnick.com/offset.jpg, cuz that's what I always tell everybody! The span is still the same and it's not really an offset thumb, just gives the appearance of being offset! Just my $02, Bruce

The span may be the same, but there is a difference in the way your hand sits in and on the ball.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

strikeking · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2009, 10:40:07 AM »

Could it be that the difference is in the way that the pitches ar drilled? Each hole is drilled on a different C/L in Bob Strickland's method.
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Strikeking

themagician · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2009, 12:26:02 PM »

I do agree in that an offset is a misnomer, but what it accomplishes is what I argue. Yes you can turn the grips in a T-Grip and essentially accomplish the offset, but what you aren't getting by that is the difference in the angle that your fingers and thumb go in the ball. This is where I believe the "offset" is important, by adjusting the angles of how your fingers go in the ball you adjust how your hand lays on the ball. I do agree that either method can get you to the same result but what i've got with an offset is tough to replicate with a t-grip because I don't use finger inserts and the angles of the holes become different in a T-Grip fit versus an offset grip.
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http://www.absolutebowling.com

JohnP · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2009, 02:02:12 PM »

magicmike -- By carefully measuring and reproducing the pitches, spans, and sizes of all the holes based on a line from the middle of the bridge to the center of the leading edge of thumb hole, the grip drilled as a standard T-grip will look and feel the same as what you're calling the "offset thumb" grip. If you use oval holes the oval angles would also have to be based on the same line. -- JohnP

Author Topic: offset thumb (Read 9785 times)

FrontTwelv

offset thumb

Kid Jete

Re: offset thumb

Juggernaut

Re: offset thumb

Kid Jete

Re: offset thumb

Juggernaut

Re: offset thumb

batbowler

Re: offset thumb

strikeking

Re: offset thumb

JohnP

Re: offset thumb

bluerrpilot

Re: offset thumb

strikeking

Re: offset thumb

themagician

Re: offset thumb

JohnP

Re: offset thumb