Author Topic: PAP (Read 6808 times)

Stever5000 · « **on:** February 19, 2010, 01:52:37 PM »

I had a few guys check for my PAP and they were all kinda puzzled about it, so I'm trying to get a little more info about it. Bear with me, because I'm still learning the technicalities. By the way, I am right handed.

My PAP was marked at 3" over and 1.5" up. Those are not the EXACT coordinates, but are pretty close. I will take a picture of the actual marking tomorrow when I get a chance. Anyway, apparently that's a weird spot for it to be? I just don't know why it's weird, and we don't have anyone halfway experienced enough to teach me why it is in a weird location, if it really is.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Stever5000 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2010, 06:35:42 PM »

quote:
Definitely NOT a spinner. Your PAP location may be correct, don't worry about that. Ask your driller to measure your axis tilt, I'm guessing it's 10 - 17* with about 25 - 35* of axis rotation. You release the ball like a lot of the pro's, just need to work on repeating shots. -- JohnP

I'm pretty certain that nobody in this area can measure axis tilt or axis rotation. Local "pro shop" operators around here are not much more than business men who know how to sell a $90 ball for $180. They can measure spans and pitches, and that's about it. The looks on their faces when you even mention "pin to PAP" or "dual angle drilling" is astonishing. I thought "pro shops" were supposed to be ran by professionals or someone of that caliber? Anyway, it would be a wasted trip to the pro shop to have them try to measure something other than my span. I can, however, drive to a pro shop not too far from here, but lessons and services there are like $35 an hour.

J_w73 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2010, 12:33:52 AM »

Measure your PAP with a low flaring plastic ball..
With your revs a high flaring ball might have flared over an inch before the ball even hit the lanes..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

JohnP · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:23:48 AM »

To check your own axis tilt, see the links in the Unofficial FAQ thread at the top of the Miscellaneous, Bowling Related forum, under the axis tilt section. To check your axis rotation, mark your PAP, preferably on a non-flaring ball. When you throw it look to see where It's located on the ball, from the left gutter (right handed) to straight back toward the foul line. Straight at the gutter is 0* and straight back at the foul line is 90*. -- JohnP

icewall · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:43:28 AM »

I dont know about what other people are seeing but I doubt your track is that low.

my brother has a PAP in the 3" range and it VERY obvious with a track that low.

where do you see the oil lines on the ball? to give you an idea 1 3/4" measured from your grip center to your first flare ring is a PAP of 5" over.
--------------------
tweener
300 revs
16 mph
17 degrees of tilt

when you're feeling blue,
just say to yourself "what would BallBaggins do?"

Stever5000 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2010, 01:06:23 PM »

quote:
I dont know about what other people are seeing but I doubt your track is that low.

my brother has a PAP in the 3" range and it VERY obvious with a track that low.

where do you see the oil lines on the ball? to give you an idea 1 3/4" measured from your grip center to your first flare ring is a PAP of 5" over.
--------------------
tweener
300 revs
16 mph
17 degrees of tilt

when you're feeling blue,
just say to yourself "what would BallBaggins do?"

I dont have any pictures of my flare, so i made a horrid representation of it using Paint. I also made a representation of how I used to flare.

Flare now:
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/582/flareg.jpg

Flare back then:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4649/usedtoflare.jpg

I usually flare around the ball (2nd picture) when I use high-end balls, like a Virtual Gravity. I've never had a problem with a lower-end piece.

rlt110 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2010, 01:14:25 PM »

Let me jump on this thread while it is running good. Only my second year bowling, but luckily I work with a great pro shop guy that help me understand a lot of things. We measured my pap at 5 1/4 over and 1 1/4 up. I know the 5 1/4 isn''t unusual, but what exactly does the 1 1/4 up mean. Good or bad release. It seems more up than most. Any insights? We used a plastic ball with tape and it was very accurate. Thanks.

Edited on 2/24/2010 2:14 PM

icewall · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2010, 09:01:27 AM »

quote:
quote:
I dont know about what other people are seeing but I doubt your track is that low.

my brother has a PAP in the 3" range and it VERY obvious with a track that low.

where do you see the oil lines on the ball? to give you an idea 1 3/4" measured from your grip center to your first flare ring is a PAP of 5" over.
--------------------
tweener
300 revs
16 mph
17 degrees of tilt

when you''''re feeling blue,
just say to yourself "what would BallBaggins do?"

I dont have any pictures of my flare, so i made a horrid representation of it using Paint. I also made a representation of how I used to flare.

Flare now:
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/582/flareg.jpg

Flare back then:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4649/usedtoflare.jpg

I usually flare around the ball (2nd picture) when I use high-end balls, like a Virtual Gravity. I''''ve never had a problem with a lower-end piece.

I know this isnt in any way accurate but if i had to I would ballpark your PAP to be around 4 TO 4 1/2" over and 1 to 1.5" inches up.

i track around 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 over and 3/4 to 1" up. So I know what it looks like.

im betting its real close to **** (4 1/2 over by 1.5" up) **** assuming that your picture is where you actually track)

I knew as soon as i saw your ball roll that there was no way you were tracking low.

based on my guess of your pap and your drawing id say that you most likely have no trouble creating length as well as great backend because of a decent amount of tilt. id say in the range of 15 to 20 degrees which is a good range to be in as it lets the ball store energy and grip the lane just enough with standard layouts.

btw your release looks good.
--------------------
tweener
300 revs
16 mph
17 degrees of tilt

when you''''re feeling blue,
just say to yourself "what would BallBaggins do?"

Edited on 2/25/2010 10:04 AM

Edited on 2/25/2010 10:07 AM

JohnP · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2010, 07:28:15 PM »

quote:
Let me jump on this thread while it is running good. Only my second year bowling, but luckily I work with a great pro shop guy that help me understand a lot of things. We measured my pap at 5 1/4 over and 1 1/4 up. I know the 5 1/4 isn''t unusual, but what exactly does the 1 1/4 up mean. Good or bad release. It seems more up than most. Any insights? We used a plastic ball with tape and it was very accurate. Thanks.

The 1 1/4" up tells you that your track is angled much like the one in the drawings Stever5000 posted, that is, closer to the grip centerline at the thumb and further away at the fingers. A track that is equidistant from the centerline at the fingers and the thumb will have a 0 up/down measurement, and one that is closer to the centerline at the fingers than at the thumb will have a down measurement. It tells you very little about how your ball reacts. -- JohnP

Author Topic: PAP (Read 6808 times)

Stever5000

PAP

Stever5000

Re: PAP

J_w73

Re: PAP

JohnP

Re: PAP

icewall

Re: PAP

Stever5000

Re: PAP

rlt110

Re: PAP

icewall

Re: PAP

JohnP

Re: PAP