BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: gejaeger on January 17, 2018, 09:15:57 PM
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I am having trouble with my equipment. I am a tweener and my eye is an angular movement to the pocket. I have a new ball drilled but didn't specify the pin placement (which is 2") and I now have a ball that is skid-flip. This leads me to a question. Should the pin placement reflect the bowling personality? I think that the 2" pin placement would be more for someone that plays the lanes more straight up, tweeners need more, in my case 3.5 to 4" and the crankers, something more, I guess. All I know is that the 2" placement is not working for me (skid/flip). There is another bowler that has the same ball I do with a 4" pin and hers moves fine (angular). I was told to dull up the ball, but I want to have the ball set up correctly so that I don't have to keep adjusting the coverstock for the lane conditions. I understand that a I will always need to play the lanes but I want to play within my skillset (angular, not skid/filp). Tell me what you think.
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First off...what do you mean by pin-out?
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sorry, I said pin-out to mean the distance between the pin and the center of gravity. In my case, I need them to be further apart than 2". ( I updated my original post to state " pin placement".
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sorry, I said pin-out to mean the distance between the pin and the center of gravity. In my case, I need them to be further apart than 2". ( I updated my original post to state " pin placement".
The distance between pin and cg means nothing to ball reaction. Surface and Pin to PAP distance are the main factors
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sorry, I said pin-out to mean the distance between the pin and the center of gravity. In my case, I need them to be further apart than 2". ( I updated my original post to state " pin placement".
The distance between pin and cg means nothing to ball reaction. Surface and Pin to PAP distance are the main factors
^this. Even val angle is a pretty minor influence on ball motion and drill angle is not noticeable at all unless the ball has a massive int diff after drilling.
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well, I'm still puzzled: There is another person that has the same ball, same weight that I do. And the same driller. She has the pin in the same place that I do just above the ring finger and to the right with the CG almost down to the right of the thumb. Her ball is angular to the pocket. I have the pin in the same position but the CG is just under and to the right of the ring finger. All this ball will do is skid and flip late, not what I want. if the CG and pin are separated the weight block will try to "stand up" earlier then if they are closer together. If there is no difference in reaction of the two balls, why did they make them this way? It has to have an effect on the ball reaction.
Both of us are tweeners.
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well, I'm still puzzled: There is another person that has the same ball, same weight that I do. And the same driller. She has the pin in the same place that I do just above the ring finger and to the right with the CG almost down to the right of the thumb. Her ball is angular to the pocket. I have the pin in the same position but the CG is just under and to the right of the ring finger. All this ball will do is skid and flip late, not what I want. if the CG and pin are separated the weight block will try to "stand up" earlier then if they are closer together. If there is no difference in reaction of the two balls, why did they make them this way? It has to have an effect on the ball reaction.
Both of us are tweeners.
Do you both have approximately the same speed, revs, axis tilt, axis rotation and surface on the ball? Do the balls have approximately the same number of games on them and absorbed the same amount of oil? There are whole lot of factors besides drilling you are possibly leaving out. As many on here smarter than me say drilling is only responsible for at most 15% of ball motion and usually less than 10%.
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Without knowing anything else, it sounds like you have more tilt and/or more axis rotation than the other person you are referring to.
In regards to your other question, the difference in pin to cg is because of the manufacturing process. I don't have a good way of explaining it, but it's not intentional for performance
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We bowl on the same team, and she bought her's a month after I did. She's a little slower than me and throws a bigger hook. She is more full, I am tilted with a low track. I'm a little tighter than she is. I'm being persistent about this because I am tired of buying new balls and having them redrilled because we can't get the drilling to match my game. I'm having problems since my normal ball driller passed away. I don't play straight up the boards, I have a tight swing. I want it back!!
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Your PAP is not the same as hers. Putting the pin in the same location on the ball with different PAPs will result in different reactions.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Trackflarechart.JPG
As SVstar34 said, surface and Pin To PAP.
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I am having trouble with my equipment. I am a tweener and my eye is an angular movement to the pocket. I have a new ball drilled but didn't specify the pin placement (which is 2") and I now have a ball that is skid-flip. This leads me to a question. Should the pin placement reflect the bowling personality? I think that the 2" pin placement would be more for someone that plays the lanes more straight up, tweeners need more, in my case 3.5 to 4" and the crankers, something more, I guess. All I know is that the 2" placement is not working for me (skid/flip). There is another bowler that has the same ball I do with a 4" pin and hers moves fine (angular). I was told to dull up the ball, but I want to have the ball set up correctly so that I don't have to keep adjusting the coverstock for the lane conditions. I understand that a I will always need to play the lanes but I want to play within my skillset (angular, not skid/filp). Tell me what you think.
Also, what do you mean by 'angular'?
Do you mean a more gradual smooth hook? Some people use a hockey stick shape to describe the skid/snap motion and then use the banana shape to describe the smoother curve motion.
I think you are saying you want an earlier hook so if you look at the picture in my earlier post, you will see where the pin to PAP should be for that if your ball is sym. Not sure about Asyms so someone else will have to comment on that.
Using a lower grit number abrasive will help the ball to start hooking earlier. Higher number grit or polish will delay the hook. How you play the lane condition will affect the ball's motion too.
Your being lower track and more tilt will probably cause the ball to skid more before hooking. I am the same but I have slow speed to compensate for that. When I increase speed, my ball hooks much later (sometimes too late). If I could play with more speed, I would have to have lower grit surfaces on the ball.
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MI 2 AZ: You just described my problem. My shot is in between the banana and a boomerang. But what I have is hockey stick. Playing around with my speed ruins my timing, I hate altering my coverstocks. This ball I feel like throwing in the trash as there is no useful purpose for it. I want to see what a ball drilled with a 3" pin down next to my ring finger or lower would do for me. I need my breakpoint closer to me not right at the pins.
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MI 2 AZ: You just described my problem. My shot is in between the banana and a boomerang. But what I have is hockey stick. Playing around with my speed ruins my timing, I hate altering my coverstocks. This ball I feel like throwing in the trash as there is no useful purpose for it. I want to see what a ball drilled with a 3" pin down next to my ring finger or lower would do for me. I need my breakpoint closer to me not right at the pins.
Surface change before re-drill. If all you want is for it to start sooner, I'm echoing what others have already said. Without immediately asking for a plug and redrill, find a PSO to measure your PAP and see what the layout even is on your ball.
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Silly question...
What ball is it?
And yes, surface. Change it.
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MI 2 AZ: You just described my problem. My shot is in between the banana and a boomerang. But what I have is hockey stick. Playing around with my speed ruins my timing, I hate altering my coverstocks. This ball I feel like throwing in the trash as there is no useful purpose for it. I want to see what a ball drilled with a 3" pin down next to my ring finger or lower would do for me. I need my breakpoint closer to me not right at the pins.
On symmetric balls a 3" or lower pin to pap will bring the break point closer. On asyms you can also get a very low drill angle. This drill sheet from Radical is a good start. Look at the low track drillings. I have the same issues but honestly I am telling you after having some ball redrilled it is more a fine tuning thing. The one ball I have found that will read the lane for me when there is oil is my Quantum Green which I actually had to take up to 4000 grit on house shot to get it down the lane which is almost never a problem for me with my high tilt, low revs and speed dominance. That ball is hella strong.
http://radicalbowling.com/uploads/downloads/radical-layouts.pdf
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sorry, I said pin-out to mean the distance between the pin and the center of gravity. In my case, I need them to be further apart than 2". ( I updated my original post to state " pin placement".
Pin-out is actually the correct usage. Pin placement usually refers to either the pin to PAP distance or the location of the pin on the ball (ie., pin up and right of fingers, for example). -- JohnP
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HackJandy thanks for the link, MI 2 AZ and AlonzoHarris thanks for the help. I have already changed the surface of the ball, unfortunately it has to be done often. My current driller will be emailing my measurements today so I can take a look and know what my PAP is, etc. I will take a look at the link you sent HackJandy as well. Had to get my book out and read up on ball physical dynamics too. I think a layout tweaking is in order.
Thanks guys, I done.
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HackJandy thanks for the link, MI 2 AZ and AlonzoHarris thanks for the help. I have already changed the surface of the ball, unfortunately it has to be done often. My current driller will be emailing my measurements today so I can take a look and know what my PAP is, etc. I will take a look at the link you sent HackJandy as well. Had to get my book out and read up on ball physical dynamics too. I think a layout tweaking is in order.
Thanks guys, I done.
NP. Good luck but you might find you need more aggressive earlier pieces as well. Drilling won't be a cure all from my experience. Love my Quantum but Rotogrip is known for those type of balls as well. Finally on those layouts ironically be careful using them on Radical asyms because with Mo Pinel cores you have to often follow the ball specific drill sheet or get unpredictable results.
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This is killing me!!! What ball???
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This is killing me!!! What ball???
We may never know...