Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2008, 09:22:40 AM
My view and observation.....these pin ups really react fast to friction....and they also react later to friction often. For me on the left....I often find MOST of my pin ups to give me an over under type of reaction.
Of course I have a pretty on the side release say 60 to 70 degrees. ie my ball wants to penetrate and flip pretty hard on its own....
In general lately I have gone back to drillings that used to work better in the past pins down slightly and slightly stronger and this allow me to play a little wider on the left and also to not have a sense of the ball "breaking free" (i going past the breakpoint and flipping too hard and too late!
Note my revs about 300 and speed near 15 at the pins when bowling well.
My observation most of these weak pin drillings say 5 3/4 or pin up drillings apply more to crankers, and more to righties(and their increased friction and need to play deeper, and more to up the backers(who need push down the lane).
Your observations and your stats....ie rev rate and axis rotation.
I see so often people these days with "too weak" or "too pin up" which seem to my eye to be presenting this "broken free" look.
An example of this to my eye is this great video from videoballreviews of the BR Twisted Fury
Pin up versus Pin down (http://"http://www.videoballreviews.com./twistedfury.html")
Your thoughts, your hand, your specs?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Edited on 7/20/2008 5:33 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2008, 05:36:04 PM
Pin up Track Temper (http://"http://www.videoballreviews.com./temper.html")
Pin Down Track Temper (http://"http://www.videoballreviews.com./RKTCOMP.html")
More examples of the dramatic increase in angularity in same ball....
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: lefty50 on July 20, 2008, 09:08:27 PM
My stats... 4.5 x 3/4 up, 250-275 revs, 16 mph at pins max.
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Post by: Joe Jr on July 20, 2008, 09:31:31 PM
Most of my stuff is pin down, and the ones that are pin up have surface.
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Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2008, 09:32:27 PM
Do you think it is our side roll more than our side?
Others....?
As I've been moving pins down lately....I've noticed more likelyhood of playing out wide with the other leftys....
Drillers, righties ????
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Dan Belcher on July 20, 2008, 10:27:05 PM
quote:I'm a righty, but I also like to use some surface on my pin up equipment. It smooths out the over/under reaction, but still gives me length and more backend reaction. It's also good for playing that hook/set rollout shot that Chris Barnes has made a small fortune with for years now whenever I find a little extra friction.
Most of my stuff is pin down, and the ones that are pin up have surface.
17mph at the pins, 250rpm, moderately low axis tilt, medium axis rotation (condition dependent), PAP is roughly 5 1/4" over, 3/4" up.
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2008, 11:44:30 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Stever5000 on July 21, 2008, 12:35:11 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v_YAbSv0Gfo
I have a large amount of revs, usually about 19.5 mph, and find that the most compatible and versatile layouts for me usually end up with the pin above the middle finger.
Post by: lefty50 on July 21, 2008, 01:26:50 AM
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Post by: Robadat on July 21, 2008, 08:22:37 AM
I have a pretty high track so I have problems with typical pin down drillings clipping the finger holes unless I use a lot more side turn than I'm comfortable with.
Pin up drillings and too much side rotation is a recipe for disaster on the port side. You are using a delayed reaction drilling with a delayed reaction enhancing release, you will be either blowing past the breakpoint or doing nose dives through the face, depending on your rev rates, more often than not.
Cut down on the side rotation and your pin up drillings will read the midlane a bit earlier, rev up nicely, and react more consistently.
My stats -
high track - 1/2" from fingers
rev rate 300-325
speed 14.5-15 at the pin deck
45 degree axis rotation typical
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Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2008, 11:57:23 AM
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: BigHorhn on July 21, 2008, 02:46:08 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2008, 02:56:33 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: srlunatic on July 21, 2008, 07:26:18 PM
Greetings!
I agree with you and with my lefties I usually get them into a pin down type drilling. I will go with a Pin Up on duller equipment to help the ball get down the lane without much surface altercation.
I agree with the observation about needing pin downs for lefties as they really don't see the breakdown of the fresh as quickly or maybe not at all compared to us righties. I have a very good lefty I drill for with a good amount of hand and he was having troubles on fresher conditions. I drilled up a Domination and a Shift with pin down layouts and he now can combat the fresh quite well.
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Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2008, 08:42:31 PM
That was a very liberal answer...and I appreciate it...others.
Do others agree: that for similar pin to pap distances on the same ball with the same surface that the higher pin up positions create more entry angle and force the thrower slightly deeper with the feet often in order to carry.
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: JessN16 on July 22, 2008, 12:07:13 AM
When I still used a brace (PAP was about 5 1/2 over 0 up): Pins about an inch over the bridge or the ring, fewer than 200 revs, lots of speed, not much axis tilt, the drilling allowed me to store energy for the back.
Now that I've ditched the brace (PAP 4 over 3/8 up): Pins just above or next to ring, revs are up, speed is down 2-3 mph, decent tilt, the drilling allows me to smooth out the reaction and control the breakpoint better.
If I use a pin-over-bridge drilling with my current style, whether I like what I get or not depends greatly on what line I'm playing, the surface prep of the ball and the general aggressiveness or non-aggressiveness of the ball. It brings a lot more variables into the equation than it used to
Jess
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 22, 2008, 07:37:36 AM
Others?
Do others see this breaking away phenomena when there pins are too far away and their revs and the surface not enough to get the ball to get the necessary midlane?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: BigHorhn on July 22, 2008, 11:16:00 AM