BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: lefty50 on March 11, 2017, 10:05:04 AM
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Politely... High rev guys and theoretical experts can bypass this one please. I'm interested in practical responses from other low rev players, certainly below 300 and preferably below 250....
I understand the potential of differential, but all too often people talk about theoretical results without looking at the practical impact based on style. For example, last year I mapped out every ball I've used for the last 15 years, and found a consistently favorable result when the differential was above .050, and higher ratings as expected as the potential increased. I use very similar drills, so disregard all the theories of changing differential. From a practical result viewpoint, higher differentials result in a better result for me. For other styles, that is not always the case.
For other low rev players, do you find yourself over a period of time consistently preferring equipment with a higher diff potential? Have you found that balls which others say are great are weak for you and your game?
Thanks in advance
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I'm not necessarily a low rev player but I'm definitely not a high rev guy. However i was actually looking at something similar recently.
For me, the balls I've had the most success with have had differentials in the .03-.048 range with a few exceptions. The other thing I noticed was my favorite balls that I've really liked a lot have all had a fairly similar core shape.
It's been said that core shape is what determines ball motion. I feel like I can agree on that statement with my personal experiences.
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Core shape may determine ball motion, but wouldn't it ultimately come down to core numbers? Like you could have a light bulb core and a core shaped like a koala, but with the same numbers, they should roll the same. But them with very similar core numbers and same cover, the timeless has a different motion from the hyroad
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Good conversation, but I'd hate to see the topic hijacked. Let me move this back to differential rather than core shape please... :)
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You can't simply phrase a question so to get only your answer...everything is theoretical
You stated thru YOUR stats that you have faired well with higher diff cores...what other response are you looking for?
Bowling is NOT pure or absolute too many can't seem to understand that
It's phrased potential for a reason and strangely enough surface is still 70-75% of reaction
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You can't simply phrase a question so to get only your answer...everything is theoretical
You stated thru YOUR stats that you have faired well with higher diff cores...what other response are you looking for?
Bowling is NOT pure or absolute too many can't seem to understand that
It's phrased potential for a reason and strangely enough surface is still 70-75% of reaction
Please leave, you're making sense.
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Thus why no one ever posts anything relevant here anymore
Happened to stop by and saw this
Back to my sabbatical of this 'forum'
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Idiots... I thought I missed you Rico, I was wrong. Sorry you can't understand it, but that doesn't mean it isn't logical. After doing computers for 40 years, I may express things in terms you can't grasp though. There is that "potential"... :)
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Dude you are by far the incredible clueless one
Thus why no one responds to you
I'm glad you've worked on computers for 40 yrs
I've worked with the top level players in THIS industry for the bulk of my life and I'm fairly certain most of what I say you don't nor can comprehend thus why everyone has left this forum...it's sad you have are so incredibly narrow minded and can't accept being wrong
You once an idiot ALWAYS an idiot...you live up to your potential
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Sorry other than insults you can argue my point...sad as usual
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Liberal... You gotta be... I thought you promised to put me on your ignore list Lib? No more silent bowing to liberals who can't fathom logic or other schools of thought that disagree with your own. Read your own posts.. See the intolerance. Your days are over Lib......
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Wow you don't miss a chance to be ignorant...first it was your higher level of intelligence now it's politics...you're amazing
Prolly have no one in real life as a friend...SAD you are
Insult away and bowl bad as usual some things never change...you call me lib I call you A S S
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I'm thinking your next comment will be 'get off my lawn'
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Darn, a post that started as something of great interest & potential for me and now it appears it is shot
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I'm thinking your next comment will be 'get off my lawn'
That's funny, lol.
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WOW! Well that went downhill quickly!
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Anyway, while everyone else gets their panties out of a bunch, let's get this back on subject. My dad, who is a little slower speed with lower revs, prefers pearls with higher dif. It allows him to play his A game line while still staying clean through the heads with punch in the backend. The longer and stronger the ball, the better he likes it. I am higher speed and revs than he is while not being super high in either category. For most of what I bowl on, equipment that works well for him would be catastrophic for me. I prefer something that will keep me out of trouble. Unless I have a lot of oil or tame backends, lower dif balls or anything polished and controllable works best for me.
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This is why we cant have nice things. I remember when the schmuck, cockholes on this site ran off Jeff Carter.
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It's too bad and unfortunate that both sides can't come to a truce.... this was starting out to be a interesting discussion :-\
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It's a simple discussion
Cote numbers are merely potential theoretical numbers and should be gauged as such
Diff numbers dictate flare potential which simply relates to the bowlers attributes X flare potential
Higher diff numbers translate to larger potential foot print vs lower diff as well as versatility
Cover is still 70-75% of total reaction...any high end elite player will tell you, they rather have the proper surface vs the proper layout...
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I agree with your assertion RICO..... it's all to relative to the topic.
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It's a simple discussion
Cote numbers are merely potential theoretical numbers and should be gauged as such
Diff numbers dictate flare potential which simply relates to the bowlers attributes X flare potential
Higher diff numbers translate to larger potential foot print vs lower diff as well as versatility
Cover is still 70-75% of total reaction...any high end elite player will tell you, they rather have the proper surface vs the proper layout...
Tell em!!!!! It amazes how people rely on layouts. NONE OF THAT MATTERS IF THE BALL DOESN'T SLOW DOWN PROPERLY.
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Liberal... You gotta be... I thought you promised to put me on your ignore list Lib? No more silent bowing to liberals who can't fathom logic or other schools of thought that disagree with your own. Read your own posts.. See the intolerance. Your days are over Lib......
Rush bowls now??
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It's a simple discussion
Cote numbers are merely potential theoretical numbers and should be gauged as such
Diff numbers dictate flare potential which simply relates to the bowlers attributes X flare potential
Higher diff numbers translate to larger potential foot print vs lower diff as well as versatility
Cover is still 70-75% of total reaction...any high end elite player will tell you, they rather have the proper surface vs the proper layout...
Tell em!!!!! It amazes how people rely on layouts. NONE OF THAT MATTERS IF THE BALL DOESN'T SLOW DOWN PROPERLY.
+1
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It's a simple discussion
Cote numbers are merely potential theoretical numbers and should be gauged as such
Diff numbers dictate flare potential which simply relates to the bowlers attributes X flare potential
Higher diff numbers translate to larger potential foot print vs lower diff as well as versatility
Cover is still 70-75% of total reaction...any high end elite player will tell you, they rather have the proper surface vs the proper layout...
Tell em!!!!! It amazes how people rely on layouts. NONE OF THAT MATTERS IF THE BALL DOESN'T SLOW DOWN PROPERLY.
Unless you're left handed 50 and work on computers 😁
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I am a low rev right hander with medium to slightly below average ball speed. Over the years many of my favorite balls have been low rg, high diff pearls. In recent years where I bowl more and more on sport patterns and less on higher scoring house shots the correlation does not seem so high. I also think that the higher diff is more important on symmetrical balls than asymmetricals for me.
Bottom line, I think your observation on high diff makes sense, but I think other variables such as ball speed and axis rotation might have an impact on your preference.
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As someone who has worked in IT for 20 years (whatever that has to do with this discussion, I don't know...) Allow me to speak on the subject.
The right tools for the right outcome. I don't use regular ram when building a Freenas box because it should use ECC to use ZFS, which is highly preferred and recommended. I could use non ecc ram and xfs instead, but for the practical application, I'll choose the right tools for the job. RAIDZ2 usually fits my needs.
Now since you're a lefty, MOST times you're going to see a need on a house shot to utilize more diff for lots of different reasons. Less traffic, less of a track, less hand. So where I would be able to use a ball with a lower diff because my side is completely different than the left side, you need the help from the ball. So I can start with a Night Hawk SE, and then jump into the puddle with a Dream On and bump the track. You will more than likely never experience that. So IN YOUR CASE, higher diff makes sense.
Also, allow me to defend Rico. The man knows more than 10 of us put together, and since you seem to be too insecure or stubborn to accept it, allow me to reiterate that he's correct.
Also, don't use your career as justification for being a snob.
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...Also, don't use your career as justification for being a snob.
To which of them was this statement directed? :o ;D
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...Also, don't use your career as justification for being a snob.
To which of them was this statement directed? :o ;D
Shots fired!
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As someone who has worked in IT for 20 years (whatever that has to do with this discussion, I don't know...) Allow me to speak on the subject.
The right tools for the right outcome. I don't use regular ram when building a Freenas box because it should use ECC to use ZFS, which is highly preferred and recommended. I could use non ecc ram and xfs instead, but for the practical application, I'll choose the right tools for the job. RAIDZ2 usually fits my needs.
Now since you're a lefty, MOST times you're going to see a need on a house shot to utilize more diff for lots of different reasons. Less traffic, less of a track, less hand. So where I would be able to use a ball with a lower diff because my side is completely different than the left side, you need the help from the ball. So I can start with a Night Hawk SE, and then jump into the puddle with a Dream On and bump the track. You will more than likely never experience that. So IN YOUR CASE, higher diff makes sense
As a lefty, I totally agree. It's a different game on that side. Not much area, but stays the same.
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As a higher speed-to--low revs senior player, more often than not I need the ball to slow down. For my game, core differential play a much lesser role than does coverstock composition/preparation. For the very short period of time that the ball is in contact
with the lane surface, it's the coverstock that has the best ability to effect ball motion.
Core differentials have some effect, but this effect will be more pronounced with lower speed players. Still, it's mostly about the coverstock, regardless the style of player.
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^^this^^
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Understood, but not evidenced as highly as the standard quoted 70/30 ratio in my tests. It would be hard to say coverstock isn't primary, but as a lower speed lower revs senior player on the left side and having mapped out success of every ball I've owned the last 15 years (I didn't keep records before that), I need all the help I can get.... Every bit counts. Below 2.5 Rg and above .050 diffs have been a friend. There's too much evidence to say there's no impact. I'm not saying majority, I'm saying statistically significant. You're certainly right though, the ball must slow down. I just came back from practice where that was easily visible, so I agree fully.
Forgive me please, but after 40 years in IT, I and my whole $%^& team are being outsourced as of yesterday, so I doubt I'll be engaging in much more conversation on this thread for awhile, but the feedback is, as always, appreciated.
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If you believe it, nothing else will convince you otherwise. You have undrilled numbers. You don't throw undrilled bowling balls.
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I think you may be making my point for me, and reading a bit too much into it as well. The simple truth is that additional differential helps a low rev bowler. While it sounds easy to say you do not throw an undrilled bowling ball, that ignores the fact that the use of a high differential layout with a high differential yields more potential for a low rev player. Again, it kind of cracks me up that everyone thinks I'm trying to change the laws of physics. I'm definitely not. Cover stock has a majority component, but again and respectfully, use of a high differential ball is still statistically significant in a low revolution players game.
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I think you may be making my point for me, and reading a bit too much into it as well. The simple truth is that additional differential helps a low rev bowler. While it sounds easy to say you do not throw an undrilled bowling ball, that ignores the fact that the use of a high differential layout with a high differential yields more potential for a low rev player. Again, it kind of cracks me up that everyone thinks I'm trying to change the laws of physics. I'm definitely not. Cover stock has a majority component, but again and respectfully, use of a high differential ball is still statistically significant in a low revolution players game.
...When it's used in the right environment. Do you even ball down, bruh??
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You mentioned best results with a diff of .050 or higher. On the lower scale what is too low or doesn't work well?
.048 .045 .040 etc
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Dude he lives in his world where nothing else matters...he honestly believes this is his private forum and tries to control it and responses
Wonder why no one responds to him seriously
When he was a kid I'm sure he stomped his foot a lot just to get his way
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I can recall 2 balls I've owned (RG Silver Streak and LM Satisfaxion) whose diff are .040 and looking at the track flares make it look like they were .075 or higher..
just my .02 :)
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No question that shell has a bigger impact than core on ball reaction. However, it does seem that in recent years core shell matchup has become more important than either one or the other in a vacuum.
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Surface will always dictate
Act any player and they'll take surface over layout every time
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I use very similar drills, so disregard all the theories of changing differential. From a practical result viewpoint, higher differentials result in a better result for me.
This kind of stood out to me in OP's post. How can one simply disregard all theory of changing differential?
I was wondering if some of you (rico/ignite/doom) could elaborate on this as it's a little perplexing to me. Even though the drills would be "similar".......the ending differential would be different based on pre-drilled core shape, no? Even if the drills would be exactly the same, core shape after drilling would be different even with different .050 differential balls because the core design is different in different lines of balls.
What I'm not understanding is the lack of focus on the differential of the drilled ball.
For other styles, that is not always the case.
Why?
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He believes only what he sees and doesn't believe anything to refute it such as physics or their laws BUT he is proving a point that surface does dictate much of whatever ball reaction he is seeing...
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I'm a low rev low speed senior bowler. I Do perfer high differential balls as long as the RG is on the medium to high side. Most senior bowlers suffer from low ball speed so we need length along with enough flare for a strong finish. I currently start with a .058 differential ball with a medium high RG. Actually my favorite bowling balls are no longer available. I'm always scanning eBay for some of the old chestnuts, you never know what you may find.
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I didn't realize 0.10 difference can either carry the 10 pin or not.
I have a ball, medium pearl 0.44 diff and flares a lot. but, it was a bit late turning the corner or reading the friction. So between blocks, I borrowed a round red pad thingy from a former BR member who left this site and was in the industry for many years - worked with phil and dale?? (track) anyway....the ball was magic.....I wonder if 0.54 would of made a difference with this ball and its max flare layout..?? instead of the pad.....
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And I thought differential was a game of diminishing returns (once the oil rings are separated, further separation impacts a smaller and smaller area of the bowtie).