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Author Topic: question regarding Axis Leverage layout  (Read 12410 times)

loose5682

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question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« on: January 17, 2005, 02:56:31 AM »
My understanding of Axis Leverage is that the CG is placed on the bowler's PAP and often there is also a balance hole drilled through this point.  This layout, again to my understanding, is best used when playing down and in or when you need to control the backend.  That being said, how does pin placement affect this layout?  Is it generally...

Pin to PAP distance:
0" - minimum flare potential, core is in it's most stable position, earliest roll with smoothest arc.
1 1/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, earlier roll with smooth arc.
2 1/4" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, early roll with strong arc.
3 3/8" - max flare potential, most unstable core position, medium length with the most hook potential.
4 1/2" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, late roll with flip/arc reaction.
5 5/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, later roll with a flip reaction.
6 3/4" - minimum flare potential, stable core position, latest roll with strongest flip.

--Courtesy of BR.com's unofficial FAQ Section--

...or, does pin placement not matter as much with Axis Leverage and it's more the placement of the CG (and of course surface) that affects the reaction?
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DP3

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2005, 11:11:40 AM »
Actually the Pin is on the Axis for true Axis leverage.  The length of the pin and where you put the C.G is a matter of how much length you want(although it has a very minimal effect on length).

Your best bet to see the desired effect is to get a ball with a 2-3 pin and go 1 x 1
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1fife

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2005, 11:59:59 AM »
putting pin, cg and weight hole all 3 3/8 form pap is max leverage

putting pin on pap is called pin axis-this will even out roll(pretty stable drilling. more popular years ago than its is currently

loose5682

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 12:03:23 PM »
I never knew that it was pin on axis, not CG on axis that made it axis leverage.  Looking at this ball...

http://www.brunswickinsiders.com/PBATour/PBATournaments/ElPaso/ballimages/winningball2.jpg

...from Parker's championship this past weekend (thanks for the pic courtesy of the AWESOME Big B tour insiders site!), I thought that this is what was referred to as Axis Leverage.  For those in the know, what type of reaction would this be then (I didn't get to watch too much of the show yet...), I would imagine it would tone down the backend quite a bit, but the longer pin would give it length, and the 1000 grit surface would let it check up a bit in the mids without over-reacting on the back.  Any thoughts?
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Andrew Loose
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T-GOD

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2005, 12:48:57 PM »
loose, that's a CG axis drilling, but very similar to an axis leverage drilling.

Technically, as Brian has stated, axis leverage is having the CG on your axis, while placing the pin at 3 3/8".(placing the pin anywhere between 3-4" would be close enough to call it an axis leverage drilling).

Because the pin is not in the 3-4" range, we'll just call it a CG axis layout, with a 5 3/4" pin to PAP. The layout is basically the same as an axis leverage layout, it's just that the pin to PAP distance is longer. =:^D

Iketown300

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2005, 01:13:30 PM »
LOOSE, how did you find that pic?  I went to brunswickinsiders.com and it says the arsenals for the pba players are still under construction.  Are there anymore pics of different balls up there?  Like mika's blazing inferno and classic zone etc?
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Ike Brownfield

loose5682

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2005, 01:27:34 PM »
Ike -- It's up there, you gotta click on the El Paso tournament bracket, then the TV report, and it's right there along the bottom.

T-GOD -- With the longer pin, this ball would be longer down the lane before making it's VERY subtle backend move, correct?  CG on Axis is done to tame down the backend, right??
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Andrew Loose
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T-GOD

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2005, 01:35:22 PM »
You're correct loose.

The longer pin will give the ball an end over end motion, rolling longer down the lane, while maintaining midlane roll, instead of midlane skid, lope, and/or squirt.

Because of the CG axis and weight hole on axis, along with the bottom weight this drilling produces, the backends will be tamed down. =:^D

DanH78

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2005, 01:39:29 PM »
Hey Andy, show Jeff that pic and ask him.  He drilled a VP for Marty with a very similar drill and he got a big ol hockey stick reaction out of it.  I drilled a Thing like that, Pin about 5.5" and CG about 2" and it gave me a pretty big backend for when I needed to get in deep.
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Iketown300

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2005, 01:49:25 PM »
THanks i found the pic.  If the cg is on his axis and the pin to axis distance is 5 3/4, then the pin to cg distance is 5 3/4 right?  Isn't more than a 5" pin considered a blem?
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Ike Brownfield

loose5682

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2005, 02:15:45 PM »
Ike -- Technically yes, as far as I know, anything longer than 5" is a blem...this is what Storm lovingly refers to as Pro-Pins.  It's a good description of them, as a lot of professionals (see Parker...) use 5"+ pins to get the desired reaction out of a ball.  It's worked for Parker before, I'm sure Angelo has used it alot as well (seen a lot of his drills as pin over middle finger, meaning more than likely 5-6" pin-to-PAP distance).  I wouldn't be surprised to know that guys like Maximum Bob and maybe even Chris Barnes have used 5"+ pin distances.
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Andrew Loose
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should

Iketown300

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2005, 02:17:51 PM »
Yes, you can have 5-6" pin to pap distances without having the pin to cg length 5 inches.  The reason that it is the same here is because his cg is on his axis point.  Therefore does this mean that any blems can be used on the pba tour?
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Ike Brownfield

DP3

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2005, 02:50:27 PM »
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to use the term axis leverage in my post, just pin axis.  I would also like to emphasis how great a "Half-Leverage/Axis" layout can be on blending wet-drys but still having some pop on the backend.  "Half Leverage" is basically a  1 3/16 x 1 3/16(cutting the 3 3/8ths in half) or to make it simpler a 1x1.  You get the same roll and even reaction of the pin axis/or axis leverage, but with a bit more continuation on the backend.  I have tried it in an Attitude 3, Nighthawk Revenge, and Monster Slay/R and they worked extremely well in all cases.
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T-GOD

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2005, 03:16:17 PM »
DP, 1 3/16 x 1 3/16 is not half leverage. 1 11/16 is..!! =:^D

loose5682

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Re: question regarding Axis Leverage layout
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2005, 03:31:19 PM »
T-GOD -- Good point!  A minor mistake, not TOO big of a deal...:-)

DP3 -- I like the "Half Leverage" idea you propose, I think that finally I'm going to go with Half Leverage (depending on the pin placement) on the ball I have in mind.

Much thanks to everyone who contributed!!!
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Andrew Loose
"King of Them All"
"Evolutionary. Revolutionary."
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should