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Author Topic: Reverse to forward?  (Read 3829 times)

WAYouthBowler

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Reverse to forward?
« on: May 14, 2003, 08:57:03 AM »
Currently all of my equipment is set at 7/8" reverse pitch, and and 3/8" away if I remember correctly.

Span is 4 5/8", and I believe if you drill by the book that I am supposed to be 3/8" reverse pitch.

My question is I want to try out a forward thumb pitch, not just lesser reverse... What steps do I need to take to make this a possibility.

I've heard that you need to shorten the span or else I won't be able to clear the thumb fast enough... so what exactly should I do?

 

Jerry Weller

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2003, 02:17:59 AM »
I have bad arthritis in my fingers that forces me to use a lot of away in the fingers so I find the forward pitch very useful for getting the ball over the foul line.

I didn't notice any appreciable loss of revs when I changed over from reverse to forward pitch. I'm no cranker, just a tweener, but a tweener was all I was with reverse pitch in the thumb. The only problem I've had is I sometimes don't get out of the ball as cleanly as I'd like. I plan to reduce the amount of forward pitch to see if that improves.


LuckyLefty

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2003, 04:38:12 AM »
Yes there are tables for the normal hand.

Developed by Bill Taylor (in like 1821), he he!

These tables are very accurate as to forward and reverse pitch.

They are based on a comfortable 63 degree angle for the thumb, based on span length.

The table looks like this.
4 1/8 span = 1/16 forward
4 1/4 span = 0 forward and reverse
4 3/8 span = 1/16 reverse
4 1/2 span = 1/8 reverse
4 5/8 sapn = 3/16 reverse

These figures above work for the average hand, thumb over 2 1/4 inch long, not especially wet or dry and average flexibility.

If you drop most bowlers go about 1/8 forward of these tables, if you hang most bowlers go about 1/8 reverse of these tables.

Bowlers who drop often have shorter, dryer, or very flexible thumbs.


Bowlers who hang have long thumbs, wet thumbs or stiff thumbs.

There is no reason to seek a certain thumb pitch, the thing to be sought is a level release.

One can start to vary to forward from these tables if they put more reverse in their fingers.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Remember the goal is the smooth release not a certain finger setup.
Especially just because someone else has it.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Jerry Weller

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2003, 02:24:13 PM »
Lefty why is the 63 degree angle the magic angle?

LuckyLefty

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2003, 09:01:43 PM »
Bill Taylor in 1811 said from Empirical testing it was.

If you look at your hand you can see it!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2003, 04:42:39 AM »
Jerry,

Seriously, to elaborate a little one what I said while rushed last night.

One must first understand what the angle 63 degrees is.

It is the angle from the top front lip of the fingers drawn straight to the front edge of the thumb hole.  This is a straight line drawn straight thru the ball.

This angle applies to both conventional grips and fingertip.

In other words a person who uses a conventional grip of 3 1/2 would use a forward thumb pitch of about 3/8 forward.  That same person going to a fingertip of 4 1/2 inches would use reverse of 1/8.(per the tables).  Note same person different thumb forward/reverse pitches.

The assumptions in all of these is that the fingers are set at 0 forward reverse pitch.

If one goes dramatically forward from these tables it makes the same span feel longer.

I believe that in a case like yours where reverse is added to the fingers corresponding forward in the thumb compensates.  In other words reverse in the fingers makes the span feel shorter, forward in the thumb makes the span feel longer!  Offsetting feels.

Going back to the 63 degree question.  A 6 inch span bowler forward reverse pitch ends up being 7/8 reverse.  A 4 inch span bowler forward reverse is 1/8 forward.  Both of these are 63 degrees.  The 6 inch bowler finger thumb line cuts thru a lot of the ball the 4 inch span hardly cuts thru any.

Regarding my comment that the 63 degree angle can be seen hold your hand and position it so that you can look at it from the side.  Position it in such a way that it is in the air with your wrist near a straigh position but could fit in your bowling ball.
You will note that your thumb naturally assumes a position that is not perpindicular to your palm (90 degrees) and it is not forward enough to be 45 degrees.  It is somewhere in between.  Around the middle of these two angles.
About 63 degrees.  (the actual mid point is obviously 67.5 degrees).

Bill actually did empirical tests with bowlers and found these angles that seemed to induce hold but then clean release.  They work for most people with slight variation!  Usually 1/8 forward or reverse off of the tables.

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Brickguy221

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2003, 12:34:46 PM »
Polish Hammer is right. Four months ago I was 1/4 reverse and I would still hang up at times. I am now 0 reverse/forward and I have a cleaner release, more revs and above this, I never "hang up" in the ball anymore. Lucky Lefty worked with me on some span changes and he got my span perfect for me, and then I went to work reducing my thumb pitch 1/16 at a time until I got to zero and have settled there. You might want to check/work on your Span as it can also cause hang up problems if not right.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

LuckyLefty

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Re: Reverse to forward?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2003, 07:26:36 PM »
To elarate a little more on this subject.

I also find that round thumbholes allow me to have more reverse than my ovals.

The round thumb holes give me more holding power and therefore for an example.

With an oval grip I may for a 4 5/8 span have 1/16 on a reverse versus for round I will use closer to a 3/16 reverse.  The 1/16 causes me to hand with a round thumbhole!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana