win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: smoothest layout?  (Read 24040 times)

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
smoothest layout?
« on: January 13, 2015, 01:43:34 AM »
I have used a pin at center grip to create a smooth layout with some success.  This puts the pin 5 inches from my PAP.  This works best with short pins to where a weight hole isn't needed as a weight hole usually increases the flare and asymmetry and causes more movement.

Does anyone have any feedback on how a 1 3/4 pin to pap would differ in reaction?  I know it would put the core in a low rg orientation.  It should also have similar flare to the 5" pin to pap. Is there an issue with the pin possibly locking onto the PAP?

What layout do you use when you want to smooth out the reaction and take as much flip out of the ball as possible?
350 RPM, 17 MPH

 

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2015, 07:17:06 PM »
That's what I meant abt specific situations vs history...I know that 3.375" creates the highest potential for flare and deviating minimizes flare and effects shape...I know that I have a better chance of effecting reaction with surface more than anything...I know I can effect reaction with a weight hole depending on initial amt of existing flare...
I work with the mindset of whats gonna give me the most options? A 4.5-5.5" (rev dependent) pin to pap is safe in managing flare...and after surface too many times I see over flaring (too much flare from too strong a pin to pap placement or too close to leverage) ill effecting down lane motion
So you can make it as sexy as one wants, but there are simplicities to this game that no one can argue and yet too many try...
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

tdub36tjt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1542
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2015, 07:26:11 PM »
That's what I meant abt specific situations vs history...I know that 3.375" creates the highest potential for flare and deviating minimizes flare and effects shape...I know that I have a better chance of effecting reaction with surface more than anything...I know I can effect reaction with a weight hole depending on initial amt of existing flare...
I work with the mindset of whats gonna give me the most options? A 4.5-5.5" (rev dependent) pin to pap is safe in managing flare...and after surface too many times I see over flaring (too much flare from too strong a pin to pap placement or too close to leverage) ill effecting down lane motion
So you can make it as sexy as one wants, but there are simplicities to this game that no one can argue and yet too many try...


Agree this is why i stick to 1 layout for symmetricals and 1 for asymmetricals generally and use differences in the ball designs to fill my arsenal. I try to only deviate from those layouts when trying to get an extreme reaction for a certain condition. Things such as a 2" pin to axis to get straight or a 6.25" pin to axis to get length with angle

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2015, 11:47:05 AM »
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
What is your PAP?

4 1/2 Over

Seems normal enough. What is your release tilt?  I was talking to somebody about and may have a reason to what you see.   What is the size of your thumb hole? Do you use a thumb slug? Do you use finger grips?


350 RPM, 17 MPH

northface28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3333
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2015, 12:03:39 PM »
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
What is your PAP?

4 1/2 Over

Seems normal enough. What is your release tilt?  I was talking to somebody about and may have a reason to what you see.   What is the size of your thumb hole? Do you use a thumb slug? Do you use finger grips?




I do you use thumb slugs and recently went back to finger grips.The shrinking and swelling in the winter made the finger holes too big initially when I would bowl.
NLMB 150 Dream Team
#NoTalking
#HellaBandz

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2015, 12:10:40 PM »
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
Weight hole placement and surface can also factor in to flare potential as well both increasing and decreasing.  Seems odd that your pin up is flaring less, though.  Maybe Ric can chime in as to factors that can cause that..

I was hoping he would, because I know I don't know what I am talking about, only what I see. Actually, the only pin up balls that flare a lot for me are asymmetrical. On symmetrical balls, the flares are tight and I hate the reaction. So, FOR ME, I drill most symmetric balls pin down, could be an illusion or all in my head.
What is your PAP?

4 1/2 Over

Seems normal enough. What is your release tilt?  I was talking to somebody about and may have a reason to what you see.   What is the size of your thumb hole? Do you use a thumb slug? Do you use finger grips?




I do you use thumb slugs and recently went back to finger grips.The shrinking and swelling in the winter made the finger holes too big initially when I would bowl.

The person I was talking to was saying that if you had finger grips with deep finger holes and a small thumb hole, that the finger holes could lower the differential more than the smaller thumb increases it, thus giving you the results that you see.
350 RPM, 17 MPH

thedjs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1017
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2015, 02:31:02 PM »
I don't know if this will help or not but I had a Brunswick Rhino Pro LE drilled with the pin about 1.5" to 2" from the pap.  It was one of the strongest balls I've ever owned.  I could sand it and use it on heavy oil or add some polish and go to medium conditions.  The flare was in the 4" range.  Have not tried this drilling on any of my newer equipment but I am thinking about plugging an Ebonite Mission X and drilling it this way.

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2015, 02:40:13 PM »
I don't know if this will help or not but I had a Brunswick Rhino Pro LE drilled with the pin about 1.5" to 2" from the pap.  It was one of the strongest balls I've ever owned.  I could sand it and use it on heavy oil or add some polish and go to medium conditions.  The flare was in the 4" range.  Have not tried this drilling on any of my newer equipment but I am thinking about plugging an Ebonite Mission X and drilling it this way.

What was the reaction shape that you saw out of it?  That is the important part.
350 RPM, 17 MPH

Aloarjr810

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Alley Katz Strike!
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2015, 04:33:11 PM »
Not trying to start anything Rico just want your opinion. But what do you think of the powerhouse blueprint track flare study? They seemed to show higher pins having more flare vs lower pins so just curious if u felt the study was flawed?

For those interested and haven't read here's the above article

Bowling Ball Track Flare Explained:
An Analytical Study of Core Dynamics and Modern
Layout Methods and Their Combined Effect on Track Flare

http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip

thedjs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1017
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2015, 06:04:26 PM »
Not trying to start anything Rico just want your opinion. But what do you think of the powerhouse blueprint track flare study? They seemed to show higher pins having more flare vs lower pins so just curious if u felt the study was flawed?

For those interested and haven't read here's the above article

Bowling Ball Track Flare Explained:
An Analytical Study of Core Dynamics and Modern
Layout Methods and Their Combined Effect on Track Flare

http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf
I don't know if this will help or not but I had a Brunswick Rhino Pro LE drilled with the pin about 1.5" to 2" from the pap.  It was one of the strongest balls I've ever owned.  I could sand it and use it on heavy oil or add some polish and go to medium conditions.  The flare was in the 4" range.  Have not tried this drilling on any of my newer equipment but I am thinking about plugging an Ebonite Mission X and drilling it this way.

What was the reaction shape that you saw out of it?  That is the important part.

I'd say it was a hard turn (banana shape) when it was sanded and a little skid/flip (hockey stick) when polished.  Bear in mind that I don't have a lot of speed and probably only average revs.   

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
350 RPM, 17 MPH

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: smoothest layout?
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2015, 09:05:07 PM »
Great article, I think.  Can't read it!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana