Good question, I’ve also wondered about these longer pin-pap’s myself; I’m assuming they do allow for longer hook zones as well.

I drill all of my stuff with a 5 inch pin to pap, and use the large Val angle on balls that I want a slower transition out of. Example: X, Night Hawk SE, anything with the Break weightblock (usually) all get 5*65 because on the fresh house shots, I don't need left turn Clyde. So I use the balls intended use (most of the time) with a Val angle that complements it. I'm not going to go 5*35 and wonder why my X doesn't peel off the spot.

Now on stronger assyms and skid flip balls that I want a faster response from, (Drift, Honey Badger, DCT Pearl) I'm going 5*35 to enhance the reaction. Use snow tires for snow, use racing slicks when you need to wheel!

. I'm not going to go 5*35 and wonder why my X doesn't peel off the spot.

Came back to re-read the responses and bust up laughing every time I read this line lol.

I drill all of my stuff with a 5 inch pin to pap, and use the large Val angle on balls that I want a slower transition out of. Example: X, Night Hawk SE, anything with the Break weightblock (usually) all get 5*65 because on the fresh house shots, I don't need left turn Clyde. So I use the balls intended use (most of the time) with a Val angle that complements it. I'm not going to go 5*35 and wonder why my X doesn't peel off the spot.

Now on stronger assyms and skid flip balls that I want a faster response from, (Drift, Honey Badger, DCT Pearl) I'm going 5*35 to enhance the reaction. Use snow tires for snow, use racing slicks when you need to wheel!

I like your thinking. I drill all my stuff with either 4.5 or 5 inches to pap and adjust the surface accordingly. My ball speed and revs are balanced (according to my coach) so surface is my main focal point. I only practice and bowl two leagues but I’m going to start bowling tournaments. I’m trying to learn and understand what the dual angle numbers mean and what they can do for me. What drill angles do you use? From what I understand, the drill angle is the first number correct?

Drill angle doesn't mean anything on a symmetrical. Drill angle means something on assyms. So on a symmetrical, I just put pin from pap and Val angle unless there's an extra hole.

Now, easiest way to explain Val angle is this. Pin on pap is the most stable the core will be. As you move it away from pap, the more unstable the core is, until 3-3/8 inches from pap, which is most unstable. Now, as you get past that point until about 6 inches, it's going to be less flare, but also more flippy down the lane, due to the pin being further from the pap.

Same kinda goes for Val angle. Further from 90 degrees you go (up to 10), the more unstable the core is,. So when a 5*20 reads the friction, it's going to react much different than 5*65.

So a smaller Val angle equals a faster transition. On a ball that's already going to transition fast, you're going to see a lot of energy expended fast.

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 03, 2018, 04:11:20 PM

Drill angle doesn't mean anything on a symmetrical. Drill angle means something on assyms. So on a symmetrical, I just put pin from pap and Val angle unless there's an extra hole.

Now, easiest way to explain Val angle is this. Pin on pap is the most stable the core will be. As you move it away from pap, the more unstable the core is, until 3-3/8 inches from pap, which is most unstable. Now, as you get past that point until about 6 inches, it's going to be less flare, but also more flippy down the lane, due to the pin being further from the pap.

Same kinda goes for Val angle. Further from 90 degrees you go (up to 10), the more unstable the core is,. So when a 5*20 reads the friction, it's going to react much different than 5*65.

So a smaller Val angle equals a faster transition. On a ball that's already going to transition fast, you're going to see a lot of energy expended fast.

I thought the drill angle (first number) can only be between 10 and 90 degrees and the VAL angle is 20 and 70 degrees. Maybe I have them reversed

Not flipped, just that those are the "recommended" limits. VAL angles exceed 70 quite frequently in bowlers who see lots of flat sport shots and want a very smooth controllable reaction.

^^^^ DrBowl15^^^^