BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: n00dlejester on May 17, 2018, 11:24:07 AM
-
Hey BR Fam,
I'm curious about layout ideas for folks with lots of axis things. I have about 20* axis tilt, and 65* axis rotation, with about 300 rpms.
What would be some fun layout ideas? I'm looking to tinker on a few older balls, both asym and sym.
-
Ive used a lot of big VAL angle layouts for spinners because I like most of them to square up to the line. With those numbers its going to be long and really forward so IMO no need to start you in deeper unless there's a lack of volume. Short drill angle, bigger VAL angle and a good flaring pin to PAP like 4".
-
Ive used a lot of big VAL angle layouts for spinners because I like most of them to square up to the line. With those numbers its going to be long and really forward so IMO no need to start you in deeper unless there's a lack of volume. Short drill angle, bigger VAL angle and a good flaring pin to PAP like 4".
+1
-
Ive used a lot of big VAL angle layouts for spinners because I like most of them to square up to the line. With those numbers its going to be long and really forward so IMO no need to start you in deeper unless there's a lack of volume. Short drill angle, bigger VAL angle and a good flaring pin to PAP like 4".
What if that Axis Rotation number was cut in half. How would that alter your suggestion?
-
Ive used a lot of big VAL angle layouts for spinners because I like most of them to square up to the line. With those numbers its going to be long and really forward so IMO no need to start you in deeper unless there's a lack of volume. Short drill angle, bigger VAL angle and a good flaring pin to PAP like 4".
What if that Axis Rotation number was cut in half. How would that alter your suggestion?
Variables being taken into consideration, maybe a longer pin to PAP.
-
Think I am going to try this layout on the Creed I picked up just for kicks (yellow pin, blue cg, and black is MB). Almost a full roller layout lol. Have a feeling track won't thump finger holes but might find myself having to play more to the left than I normally do with more standard layouts. My track is a more to the bottom left of the ball than dotted line in diagram. (Stole layout from BTM article about layout for very low track bowlers).
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbowlingthismonth.com%2Fbtmcontent%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Fasymmetrical-very-low-track-layout-300x297.jpg&hash=d3f6d54b717b3644f7b875fe2e51869eb544eb0a)
-
Let us know how that goes! I'd love to see a video or two, just to see it in action.
-
So I finally got to throw the Creed today with the layout posted above and it did not do what I expected. I was bowling in the heavier oil house OOB so I want to throw on a more normal volume house shot before being sure but basically the ball went nearly as straight as my spare ball. Sure didn't hit like it though as that layout definitely gets the ball into a forward roll early. No weird splits so don't think it was burning up just didn't seem to have much of a hook phase, not that I normally do much anyway but usually get a little bit of a pop on the backend. Need to look at track later but don't think was tracking over thumb hole. Supposedly the Creed can handle some oil but maybe if go back to that house will bring a lot more surface next time. Didn't throw particularly well also so want to see with less user error. Ball has a nice hit though.
(edit: yep back of my mind knew heard of this layout somewhere else besides full rollers. Very close to Boomer layout which does just what I describe above. Meant for people with a lot higher rev rate than me to control the back end. Oh well may eventually plug and redrill or may keep as with this ball's core being so bottom heavy might grow on me as my go to down and in ball)
-
Ok I can vouch now for that layout above being perfect if you have high axis tilt and want to go straighter is greater. Behaved the same on lower volume as it did higher with my Creed. Hits a ton too (with solid pocket hits with that core blows out rack about as well as any other ball I own) because ball gets in a roll early because especially if have higher ball speed can put on as much surface as you want pretty much. Didn't see many splits which is usually my problem playing straighter (think nearly dead straight) but did see more 5 pins than I usually do when went high at all (spinners blues).
-
Just putting the pin "under the thumb" only inverts the bowtie and causes the ball to flatten out downlane. Mainly because of these two factors:
1) Distance of the pin to your N.A.P.
- Yes... the negative axis point. If you have a very low track, that pin is probably 7-8" from your NAP being right under the thumb. It's going to lower the flare and overall hook a lot.
2) The pin being that much below the center of grip
- This will pull your bowtie down near the thumb and greatly decrease the entry angle as the ball will break tilt the earliest and roll the most forward as it exits the pattern
That layout posted will work best with a higher track, high rev player as long as the pin is 5-5 1/2" from the Negative Axis Point. If you're hellbent on trying the layout, I would plug it and move the grip so that the pin is closer to 7-8 o'clock or wherever the layout falls in order for the pin to be 3 1/2" below the centerline and 5" from your negative axis point.
Try that and the ball will roll much better, I promise.
-
Thanks for the advice. Will probably end up plugging and going with a more standard layout as really don't have revs for pin below thumb. Good to experiment but yeah monkey see diagram monkey try will admit. Might try suit casing ball before I do just to see how it rolls full roller style. Still Creed seems like too good of ball to relegate to weird layout fun ball duty.
-
One of my favorite balls of all time, the xfactor rolled amazing with that layout.
-
My wife has 22* of tilt, 60-65* axis rotation, slightly speed dominant. Generally, we do something like 40x5x30 for pure hook. 60x4.75x35 for house shots.....
-
My wife has 22* of tilt, 60-65* axis rotation, slightly speed dominant. Generally, we do something like 40x5x30 for pure hook. 60x4.75x35 for house shots.....
Yep longer pin 2 pap way to go. Been using 20x4.75x30 for big hook myself. Also as a boot note went with the following layout on the Creed instead and like it a lot more. I generally need more back end not less and layout above is the way to kill back end reaction.
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbowlingthismonth.com%2Fbtmcontent%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Fasymmetrical-low-track-layout-300x297.jpg&hash=50b5cb19b2bab6f3ea3035df7a8481ee7689ef47)
-
BowlingForDonuts, thanks a lot for your report on the Creed. It's a shame it didn't work out as well as you hoped, but at least you tried.
Thinking about the Negative Axis Point, would having a pin that's ~5 inches from the NAP (I think that makes it about ~8.5 inches from the PAP) cause a more stable roll?
-
BowlingForDonuts, thanks a lot for your report on the Creed. It's a shame it didn't work out as well as you hoped, but at least you tried.
Thinking about the Negative Axis Point, would having a pin that's ~5 inches from the NAP (I think that makes it about ~8.5 inches from the PAP) cause a more stable roll?
I would assume so and that is what was recommended if I did want to go the pin under thumb route but gave up on reverse flare. Been working on my release to not come around the ball so early. Still have plenty of axis tilt but exotic drillings (to me) are probably not going to be the answer (ie no magic drilling for an iffy inconsistent release which slow but surely I am improving). Creed is a great ball though and new more conventional drilling on it works well so far. At least I know the perfect layout of making a reactive go dead straight if I ever need it lol.
-
BowlingForDonuts, thanks a lot for your report on the Creed. It's a shame it didn't work out as well as you hoped, but at least you tried.
Thinking about the Negative Axis Point, would having a pin that's ~5 inches from the NAP (I think that makes it about ~8.5 inches from the PAP) cause a more stable roll?
I would assume so and that is what was recommended if I did want to go the pin under thumb route but gave up on reverse flare. Been working on my release to not come around the ball so early. Still have plenty of axis tilt but exotic drillings (to me) are probably not going to be the answer (ie no magic drilling for an iffy inconsistent release which slow but surely I am improving). Creed is a great ball though and new more conventional drilling on it works well so far. At least I know the perfect layout of making a reactive go dead straight if I ever need it lol.
That's fair enough, Mr. Donuts. I've been trying to do exactly what you do - work on less spinny release, and also exotic drillings. For me. I was able to spin it less by lengthening my span quite a bit (I think 3/8 of an inch). I went from a PAP that was 4 1/4 over and 5/8 up to 5 over and 1/4 up. It's HARD though, to get it all to feel proper.
Do you find certain brands roll better for you? I have a few brands I just can NOT throw because they roll so forward it's ludicrous.
-
BowlingForDonuts, thanks a lot for your report on the Creed. It's a shame it didn't work out as well as you hoped, but at least you tried.
Thinking about the Negative Axis Point, would having a pin that's ~5 inches from the NAP (I think that makes it about ~8.5 inches from the PAP) cause a more stable roll?
I would assume so and that is what was recommended if I did want to go the pin under thumb route but gave up on reverse flare. Been working on my release to not come around the ball so early. Still have plenty of axis tilt but exotic drillings (to me) are probably not going to be the answer (ie no magic drilling for an iffy inconsistent release which slow but surely I am improving). Creed is a great ball though and new more conventional drilling on it works well so far. At least I know the perfect layout of making a reactive go dead straight if I ever need it lol.
That's fair enough, Mr. Donuts. I've been trying to do exactly what you do - work on less spinny release, and also exotic drillings. For me. I was able to spin it less by lengthening my span quite a bit (I think 3/8 of an inch). I went from a PAP that was 4 1/4 over and 5/8 up to 5 over and 1/4 up. It's HARD though, to get it all to feel proper.
Do you find certain brands roll better for you? I have a few brands I just can NOT throw because they roll so forward it's ludicrous.
I am speed dominant so help getting into a forward roll is a good thing for me. So far the only brands I have had problems with is the super strong cover stocks from Radical. Particle balls are also a no no unless have a ton of oil up front. For whatever reason I seem to match up better with higher RG 2 piece stuff from all the brands I have tried so far. I find with my straighter angles that 2 piece hit will often save me from nasty splits (and a few less 5 pins the bane at least of this spinner). With less early turn on my release I am starting to get the ball to read the midlane better so maybe the lower RG stuff actually reading the oil early and giving me the miss room others enjoy on THS will also be a good thing.