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Author Topic: Struggling with Asyms...  (Read 15183 times)

toneoak1

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Struggling with Asyms...
« on: February 15, 2019, 01:22:08 PM »
I can't seem to get a decent reaction from asymmetrical bowling balls.  Why is this?  I don't have the specifics on all of my specs. For example, I don't know my exact axis tilt.  I've never had this measured. I'm left handed, have a high track, and am around 325 RPMs of rev rate.  I'm definitely speed/rev matched.  I tend to set the ball down early.  The majority of the shots off my hand are silent.  I ended last year averaging 235 and am consistently over 225.  The shot at our local alley changes from week to week, sometimes drastically. If any of that is helpful.

The problem is, I would like to take advantage of the added motion of asym equipment but can't.  The last 4 asym balls I've had, I've hated.  I never saw the turn over or flip in any of them.  I had a Storm Virtual Gravity (yes this was a while ago) and I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy on the planet that didn't like that ball.  I had it plugged and re-layed it out and still nothing.  I got rid of it and tried a Storm Invasion;  Hated it.  Down and in was all it did and even then had to be careful.  Couldn't belly it at all, which is my typical shot shape.  Got rid of it.  After some time I thought I'd try one again.  (older=wiser right?) I picked up a Motiv Trident after LOVING my previous 4 motiv balls.  Same issue.  Hated it.  No "booming" move what-so-ever.  I have a ball spinner and I tried polishing it; Nope. Sanding it; Nothing. Trying many different surface grits; Nada.  Put it back in the bag after half a season of experimenting.  Went to get it out for this season and it had cracked all the way around.  Best thing that could have happened.  Got a Motiv Rogue Blade and that ball hockey-sticks for me. 

My guess is the ball is too aggressive for my style and is burning up before it gets to the break point.  After talking to a buddy about it we noticed my last few asyms were all aggressive SOLIDs.  Maybe an asym pearl would help. Something like a Golden Jackyl

I am a mere mortal that has to pay retail or close to it for my bowling balls and can't afford a $270 "experiment". 

Anyone in the same boat?????
Any Ideas?????

 

imagonman

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 01:33:21 PM »
What were the layouts? Pin to PAP- MB location - angles etc.??

SVstar34

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 01:46:00 PM »
It's tough without seeing the reaction or knowing your PAP + axis tilt and rotation.

My general assumption would be the ball is rolling forward too quickly where the pin ended up being too far away from your PAP and/or past your VAL.

I know for myself and a few others that we can't go past 4.5" pin to pap as asymms just transition quicker and roll forward. My asymm layouts are generally 3.5-4.25" pin to pap now because of it

itsallaboutme

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 02:28:51 PM »
You average 235 and say the lanes are different every week.  Quit searching for the unicorn.

The reality is most better bowlers prefer symmetric balls.

toneoak1

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 02:29:36 PM »
What were the layouts? Pin to PAP- MB location - angles etc.??

Not positive. When the ball cracked, I returned it to my PSO.

toneoak1

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 02:30:56 PM »
It's tough without seeing the reaction or knowing your PAP + axis tilt and rotation.

My general assumption would be the ball is rolling forward too quickly where the pin ended up being too far away from your PAP and/or past your VAL.

I know for myself and a few others that we can't go past 4.5" pin to pap as asymms just transition quicker and roll forward. My asymm layouts are generally 3.5-4.25" pin to pap now because of it

I was afraid that I didn't have enough information.  I'll bring that up the next time I talk to my driller.

toneoak1

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2019, 02:36:59 PM »
You average 235 and say the lanes are different every week.  Quit searching for the unicorn.

The reality is most better bowlers prefer symmetric balls.

I ended last season at 235.  It has been a very different story this year.  I probably should've specified that. 

This year we've seen everything from long/flat, to huge over/under, to even one night where the oil machine was on the fritz and our lanes was literally over 25 boards apart from one another.  I bowl on a team where our 5-man average was 1085 and I shot 640 that night and was the only guy over 550. 3 guys didn't break 500.  It's like a new house every night, and we get very little warm up time; usually 3 frames, so 6 shots max. 

JohnP

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 02:43:18 PM »
Layouts for asymmetrical balls are different than for symmetrical balls.  Don't expect your favorite symmetrical layout to work on an asymmetrical.  Find a driller that knows how to lay asymmetrics out.  --  JohnP

toneoak1

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 02:58:49 PM »
Layouts for asymmetrical balls are different than for symmetrical balls.  Don't expect your favorite symmetrical layout to work on an asymmetrical.  Find a driller that knows how to lay asymmetrics out.  --  JohnP

I do understand that part.  I do trust my driller as well.  I have watched many of Mo Pinel's videos on reactions and layouts.  He hit on this very subject in his video, "The Rules have Changed".  He said if this is the case, put the PSA in the thumb hole.  I took a look at my cracked Trident after that and that is exactly where it was.  Thus adding to my confusion. 

Brandon Riley

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 03:37:26 PM »
My guess is that the problem is coverstock related.  Most top shelf asyms not only have stronger cores than our favourite midrange symmetrics, but they also use stronger coverstocks.  Its very much possible that these covers are just too strong and aren't matching up to the patterns which you are seeing at your home centre. 
Look into something in the mid-upper range with asymmetry that gets down the lane a little easier like the Vintage Vapor Zone
Brandon Riley
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northface28

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 03:53:01 PM »
You average 235 and say the lanes are different every week.  Quit searching for the unicorn.

The reality is most better bowlers prefer symmetric balls.

I have a good friend who was a 2x junior team USA member and his answer is always “asym is NEVER the answer”.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 04:20:23 PM »
What balls DO work well for you?

bowler001

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 04:30:06 PM »
My guess is that the problem is coverstock related.  Most top shelf asyms not only have stronger cores than our favourite midrange symmetrics, but they also use stronger coverstocks.  Its very much possible that these covers are just too strong and aren't matching up to the patterns which you are seeing at your home centre. 
Look into something in the mid-upper range with asymmetry that gets down the lane a little easier like the Vintage Vapor Zone

^^^This. Asymms already have a shorter hook zone than symmetricals, so when you add stronger covers as well, they lose energy rather quickly. Assym balls will transition faster off of friction than a symm ball will, but the trick is that friction isn't always down lane. Brandons recommendation for the Vapor Zone is very good given the limited info provided. That or any other milder cover asymm ball that is intended for skid/flip sounds like what you're really looking for. I'm not referring to pearl versions of high end asymm balls because they typically still don't have much pop on average conditions. They are still strong balls and strong covers and intended to cover boards, not retain lots of energy, just more energy than their solid counterpart.

six pack

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 05:38:07 PM »
my Buddy is in up the back bowler,5-1/2" PAP, negative tilt, 30* rotation and around 350 rpm's. He always is stuck in the track and it makes me cringe to watch him force that line when I know you can just move left but everytime he tried it the ball wouldn't face up. I talked him into a gold kingpin with a 70x3.5x30 layout and low and behold he can step left and is killing it with that ball. more 250+ games in a month then I think he's shot in years.


The harder I try the harder they fall

six pack

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Re: Struggling with Asyms...
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 05:43:35 PM »
He also has a DV8 grudge hybrid he likes for first game. don't know the exact specs of the layout but the pin is a good 5" pin to pap with the mb next to thumb. that ball rolls very straight for him with a very mild backend.
I hope these two examples help...
The harder I try the harder they fall