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Author Topic: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?  (Read 1948 times)

LuckyLefty

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The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« on: March 27, 2019, 12:18:31 PM »
So I am starting to really get interested in lateral side pitches as I have shortened my span from extremely stretched to full finger relaxed.  With some difficulty for awhile but , as I am making these changes I am starting to develop some stronger opinions on this maybe important subject.

So, I have one of the copies of Fitting and Drilling a Bowling ball by the authority of the day Bill Taylor.  In there he states that Fingergrip fitted bowling balls end up with a solution for lateral pitches of the fingers with 0 lateral for the middle finger, and 5/8(ring) to the right for righties and 5/8 (ring) to the left for lefties.  For virtually all fingers.

He then goes on to say that "Remember,lateral pitches in fingers are for comfort not utility".  This is a statement I am not sure with today's strong balls and lower volume high viscosity oil patterns is true.

Anyway, some of well experienced drillers.  Could you elaborate on those times when most of the bowlers went from pure fingertip no inserts(at 0, 5/8 pitch) to inserts and 3/8 3/8?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 02:01:40 PM by LuckyLefty »
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James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

tommygn

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 08:12:59 AM »
3/8, 3/8 keeps average depth finger holes from meeting at the bottom and weakening the bridge area.
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Bowl_Freak

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 09:00:14 AM »
Always keep that 3/8 and 3/8 as your standard pitches in mind when you adjust them for comfort. Im actually 1/2 and 1/4 on my fingers lateral.

LuckyLefty

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2019, 08:07:18 AM »
So if we can, let's continue this.  Bill Taylor's 0 middle and 5/8 lateral also will keep many depth holes from intersecting?

How did we morph to 3/8 3/8 once inserts came into the mix?  Long time drillers, remember the thinking that led to this transition?  Any effect on ball roll in your opinion?

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
PS guys thanks for your feedback above.  Bowl Freak are your pitches 1/2 ring right(righty bowler) and 1/4 left middle(righty bowler)? Thank you.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Maine Man

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2019, 08:52:13 AM »
The 0 and 5/8 can certainly weaken the bottom of the bridge ever so slightly, but if a bowler has certain flexibility issues we can adjust the 3/4" standard and let them know of the possible issue of bridge weakening, and then let them decide if they want to drill it that way or not. Fit is everything though. I use 5/8 ring and 1/8 middle finger because that is comfortable for my own flexibility, but we normally go by the 3/4" "rule" and haven't had bridge cracking issues coming back to our shop at all, and haven't had anyone complain about any pain issues.
James Goulding
Moore's Pro Shop
Radical Regional Staff
M.I.S.T. Tournament Series Director

LuckyLefty

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2019, 09:00:04 AM »
So James, thanks for your answer!

I note your 1/8 middle finger lateral pitch vs 3/8 do you feel that is significant?  Or effects ball roll? I note your 3/4 total pitch spread and I agree that is ideal for strong bridges.  I often solve that problem for myself with only a 9/16 total spread in pitches by drilling 31/32 to about 1 inch and the switching to a 57/64 drill bit go to the rest of the depth.

I appreciate your input and would love to hear more from your perspective!

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Maine Man

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2019, 09:18:53 AM »
LuckyLefty,

I'm glad you are able to modify the bits to keep the bridge intact, that is a good idea. I find that the 1/8 middle is more for my personal flexibility and comfort, but I was able to increase my tilt slightly when measuring it before and after the change (went from about 12-14 to 15-17 on average). so not a big difference there overall, but it is worth noting.
James Goulding
Moore's Pro Shop
Radical Regional Staff
M.I.S.T. Tournament Series Director

LuckyLefty

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2019, 09:33:11 AM »
Maine Man,

Your previous middle finger pitch was?  Before ending up at 1/8?  If I remember correctly you are a lefty?

If you changed your laterals did you also adjust your lateral thumb pitch?

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
PS I am finding this subject very fascinating!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Maine Man

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2019, 09:46:33 AM »
LuckyLefty,

Yes, you are correct, I am left handed. I had a standard 3/8" lateral pitch for each finger before modifying. I went through a bunch of grip changes after wrist surgery a few years ago. I went from thumb pitch being 3/8" left lateral and 1/4" reverse, to my current pitch of 1/4" left lateral and zero (0) front/back pitch. I also shortened my ring finger 1/8" and lengthened my middle finger 1/16" to get the middle finger to do more work. I also have no forward/reverse pitch in my fingers, they are (0) and I use Ultimate oval finger inserts and Ultimate urethane thumb slugs. I love the feel of the Ultimate stuff, I switched to them about a year ago and it has been very good.
James Goulding
Moore's Pro Shop
Radical Regional Staff
M.I.S.T. Tournament Series Director

LuckyLefty

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 09:52:02 AM »
Maine Man,

I have found my adjustment from 3/8 3/8 to first 1/4 3/8 and then now 1/8 7/16+ to all of a sudden force me to start to approach my 1/4" left  coke bottle result.

This is having some fascinating effects on my ball roll, that I can see but have not measured!

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Bowl_Freak

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 10:29:46 AM »
So if we can, let's continue this.  Bill Taylor's 0 middle and 5/8 lateral also will keep many depth holes from intersecting?

How did we morph to 3/8 3/8 once inserts came into the mix?  Long time drillers, remember the thinking that led to this transition?  Any effect on ball roll in your opinion?

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
PS guys thanks for your feedback above.  Bowl Freak are your pitches 1/2 ring right(righty bowler) and 1/4 left middle(righty bowler)? Thank you.
So if we can, let's continue this.  Bill Taylor's 0 middle and 5/8 lateral also will keep many depth holes from intersecting?

How did we morph to 3/8 3/8 once inserts came into the mix?  Long time drillers, remember the thinking that led to this transition?  Any effect on ball roll in your opinion?

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
PS guys thanks for your feedback above.  Bowl Freak are your pitches 1/2 ring right(righty bowler) and 1/4 left middle(righty bowler)? Thank you.

Lucky, My middle finger is 1/2 left and ring is 1/4 rt. Plus i have some rev in them to accomadate my lack of flexibilty in my joints.

JohnP

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 11:00:36 AM »
3/8" L and 3/8" R puts each hole at the same angle, but in opposite directions and satisfies the 3/4" total.  That makes it easier to glue the inserts in and get a smooth fit at the top of the holes.  If, for example, you use 1/8" L and 5/8" R one side of each grip will have to be pushed down quite a bit to get a smooth fit.  Of course, the proper pitches for the customer comes before ease of grip installation.   --  JohnP

LuckyLefty

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2019, 12:49:59 PM »
Thanks Bowl Freak I assume you are right handed?

Now John P.  Is that how it really came about, I think that is sort of what I had heard too!

Just to expand on what you said.  For the 1/8(second easiest) or 0 middle finger hole(easiest), pushing down one side of the grip does not exist at all for 0, and barely exists for the 1/8, I think you will agree!

Now on the 5/8(hardest), yes one side will stick up the most and pushing down is harder, I believe we could agree on also, right? Of course a solution for that is triming one side of  the bottom of the insert at an approximately 1/8"  angle if it is bottoming and leading to compression of the rubber.

Just to digress to Bill Taylor's comments.  0 lateral pitch middle and 5/8 lateral pitch works for virtually all fingers. 

Fascinating, and yet with inserts we now vary FAR from that!  One would think that it would be because they with inserts now fit differently.  Instead it seems to be just like you say, to assist the driller in insert application and longevity of the grip solution.

Hmmmmmm...which leads to a question.  How does it affect hand position, and how does it affect ball roll.  To some this may be the more important consideration, right?

Something to marinade on, I think!

I would love to hear from other old time drill gurus like Bull Red about this transition from "Bill Taylor" fitting for form pitches, and "Insert" pitches or fitting for Insert cosmetic and installation ease.

I apprecate your answers and hope to hear more!   YOUR thoughts?

Sincerely,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Bowl_Freak

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2019, 01:35:34 PM »
Yes im righthanded. I feel like with my pitches, they allow my hand to sit comfortably on the ball which goes against the rule of thumb in most cases. I also have a real short, almost super-semi grip in my ball now. 4"ctc on my equipment. I bury my fingers in almost feels like a conventional but just a little longer than a conventional. So far since ive changed 2 weeks ago, I have had 4 gms 270+ and front 8 3 times. I'm a feel bowler and need the feel to bowl well.

LuckyLefty

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Re: The Genesis of the common 3/8 3/8 lateral side pitches?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2019, 02:02:00 PM »
Awesome bowling!  I have heard the trend is towards conventional, Ala Jason Belmonte almost looking so, and Jakob Butturff.

I have also heard of the flat hand idea with pitches in the opposite direction from the Bill Taylor prescription.

Sincerely,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana