Post by: 1fife on September 11, 2003, 04:02:43 PM
if my thumb hole was a clock
its rubbing at 11:30-10:00
i bevel alot, but that doesnt seem to do the trick
i have tried
3/16-3/8 reverse
and
1/8 under to 1/8 away
all seems bad
i realize everyone will say-go to less reverse, but why would that cause the ball to hang where it does.
i drill my own stuff-only ever seem to have problems with myself
span(cut to cut)
4 5/16 for ring finger and 4 3/16 for middle
im right handed
grips(both 3/4) turbo soft ovel 1/4 reverse on both and both pitch 5/16
thumb 63/64
last two balls drilled
3/8 reverse 1/8 away
5/16 reverse 1/8 under
both seemed equally bad
could a finger pitch help?
WELL?
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Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Edited on 9/12/2003 2:23 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on September 12, 2003, 07:34:31 AM
I have trouble giving advice to someone with your profile.
But what should be your lateral pitch? Coke Bottle test?
Also on bevel have you seen the tips Mo Pinel gave me on the drilling section titled "What Mo Pinel taught me about bevel" I thought what he showed me was great.
I rarely hang (well except for last night???)
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS based on what you are saying it is side bevel but front is propably fine!
Also your reverse pitch is in the right area too. Maybe a slight bit forward is perfect but not if your thumb is stiff or you hang.
Post by: 1fife on September 12, 2003, 09:45:09 AM
between first finger and middle, but closer to first
which points to 1/8 away
and i bevel just like mo says
ring finger only in hole and release themb
then middle finger only and release thumb
AND WHATS WRONG WITH MY PROFILE
i talked to lots friends and they give advice. seems like locals anll think the same way-maybe a view outside of the window would work. Or maybe someone has had sme problem and came to a solution
--------------------
Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: LuckyLefty on September 12, 2003, 09:54:27 AM
It just sounds like going 0 lateral might work also, like maybe you have a little too much reverse. And it sounds if you are hanging in the 10 to 11:30 area like it is a middle finger test/side bevel area.
Regards,
Luckylefty
Post by: stringer on September 12, 2003, 10:26:12 AM
you will need to make the hole larger in that area. 3/8 rev and 1/8 away should make you fly out of the thumb if the hole size is correct. If so, then you are probably squeezing another cause of hanging and thumb swelling. We have the same span and rev pitches on fingers, but I use 1/8 away and 1/8 rev for my thumb. I have even used 0 rev and 1/8 away. It is very important to have a relaxed grip and reducing reverse helps with that.
Post by: 1fife on September 12, 2003, 10:41:39 AM
thumb swelling-it does and i have to take about 2 pieces out as the night goes on(always have had to)
squeezing-probably have always have, but this year i thoguht that may have been the major problem and have relaxed my thumb-still happens
i have a huge bevel in the area of problem and thnumb is not close to round anymore. oblong (sp?) in shape
should i try more under or more away than 1/8?
hate to say it-more reverse
i have tried (experimented) with 1/8 reverse only and 0 lat and that didnt seem to be better.
since i have went either way from 1/8-3/8 reverse and 1/8 lat both ways, im thinking maybe i need to try more?
i have all the equipment, so im game to try anything(its not like plug material cost much)
this sucks, my game is suffering big time
i have big expectations and small performance
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Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Edited on 9/12/2003 10:51 AM
Post by: TECH SUPPORT on September 12, 2003, 10:43:02 AM
Do you oval the hole or have tri ovals.if so is the angle right.should you be using ovals.
I have seen people who have gained wieght and develope hanging problem.Did you?
maybe you body is changing and thus you may need a new fitting.Try and stick you thumb in the thumb hole and see where your fingers lay across the finger holes.Is the first crease even or past the inside part of the grips.Tension in the hand can cause you to hang,have you tried a CLT drilling"realy makes the hand more relaxed" These are just some ideas from out side of the window.
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I have taught you every thing I know and you still dont know DICK.
Post by: 1fife on September 12, 2003, 10:46:44 AM
center of finger grip in directly between the crease in finger
i have tried shortening span by as much as 1/8 inch and lengthening it by 1/8 to no help
weight, well some, but not much
maybe i should drop ring a little or lengthen the middle a little and give it a try.
--------------------
Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: LuckyLefty on September 12, 2003, 11:02:44 AM
Next time you go and practice, bring a bevel knife and bevel as thumb swells?!
Just a thought, if it is good on bench but not at alleys!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: T-GOD on September 12, 2003, 11:06:16 AM
1. Where are you hanging on the thumb..?
2. Where are you callous's..?
3. After putting your fingers in the ball first, as you drop your thumb in the hole, does the back of your knuckle hit against the back of the hole..?
4. Do you also feel the top front edge of the hole, pinching at the inside base of your thumb..?
5. Can you feel the sides of your thumb touching the sides of the thumb hole, more than the front and back of the thumb, when your thumb is inside the hole..?
After answering these questions, I will be able to suggest a recommendation for you. =:^D
Post by: stringer on September 12, 2003, 11:34:27 AM
Post by: JohnP on September 12, 2003, 11:38:44 AM
Post by: 1fife on September 12, 2003, 12:39:00 PM
ill think about them and answer in a bit
slugs-
well some balls have them and some not, to ne honest i have never seen much difference.
I plug and redrill thumbs all the time, some have slugs-some not
i sell all balls i dont like and it easier to not have slugs-easier to slug it and sell for new customer(ball looks new-no plug)
so i have slug and not, but all balls are doing the same thing-hanging
--------------------
Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: 1fife on September 12, 2003, 02:18:20 PM
im right haneded
ring 4 5/16 and middle 4 3/16
sorry for the typo(i just typed in span and assumed everyone knew which was which-heck didnt even say if right handed, no drop finger
)--------------------
Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: 1fife on September 12, 2003, 05:48:30 PM
quote:
1fife,
SIDE NOTE_MY THUMB IS NOT VERY FLEXILBE-short stubby little thing(yah i heard all the jokes already)
1. Where are you hanging on the thumb..? when im releasing the ball on the front(closest to fingers) left
2. Where are you callous's..? back left and right in front-none really bad. My thumb looks good, not like some of the ugly bowlers thumbs ive seen
3. After putting your fingers in the ball first, as you drop your thumb in the hole, does the back of your knuckle hit against the back of the hole..? no front hits(in 10:30-11 area), then i can feel the back(in the7:00) area-
4. Do you also feel the top front edge of the hole, pinching at the inside base of your thumb..? yes
5. Can you feel the sides of your thumb touching the sides of the thumb hole, more than the front and back of the thumb, when your thumb is inside the hole..? yes, but left more than right
After answering these questions, I will be able to suggest a recommendation for you. =:^D
--------------------
Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: T-GOD on September 12, 2003, 09:57:09 PM
1. Because you're hitting on the front left of the thumbhole, you will usually need more right pitch. You can also try more reverse pitch, i.e. 3/4"
2. The span is slightly too long, because you feel the front edge of the hole as you're putting your thumb in the ball.
3. Because your thumb is short, stubby and not very flexible, I would think that your ring finger should be shorter. Place your thumb in the ball, then lay your fingers over the holes. Then measure the distance from the front of the hole, to the crease of your finger. You want the distance to be the same for both fingers. The crease should almost be in the center of the hole, but probably just before.
Let me know what you come up with for the distance of the crease to the front of the hole for both fingers.
4. You will need more/the proper bevel. Bevel is the most important thing concernig a thumbhole. Try beveling down deeper inside the hole, and taper it out towards the top like a funnel. This will allow your thumb to go in deeper, but also come out without hanging.
Keep beveling the ball, wherever you're hanging, until you don't hang anymore..!! Then, tape up the hole on the front and backside, until you're able to hang on to the ball without squeezing it too much, while also being able to release the ball whenever you want to without hanging.
Do whatever you have to do to get rid of the hang, as far as reverse pitch and bevel goes. You say you're using a lot of bevel, but it probably is beveled properly.
So, my recommendation is to use 3/4 reverse, 0 lateral pitch. Let's start out with alot of reverse, so you can clear the ball. It's better to exaggerate to the extremes, so you can feel the difference and get the desired effect. Then, you can cut back on it later if you want.
Also, I'm guessing that we'll have to shorten your ring finger to 4 3/16. This should get you out of the ball along with some bevel. After you're clearing the ball cleanly, you can start to reduce the reverse pitch and bevel to where you start to hang again. Then, you'll know where you should be.
There's nothing wrong with using 3/4" reverse pitch, it's only a number and may be what you need, depending on your thumb and how you want to release the ball. =:^D
Edited on 9/12/2003 10:12 PM
Post by: TECH SUPPORT on September 13, 2003, 08:33:43 AM
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I have taught you every thing I know and you still dont know DICK.
Post by: Stan on September 13, 2003, 10:34:39 AM
Stan
Post by: T-GOD on September 13, 2003, 11:08:20 AM
And, with the proper bevel, you will be able to place your thumb/hand in the ball at different angles, which changes your grip and release/turn. Being able to change the way you hold the ball or having your hand in the ball at different angles, and allowing for different releases, lets you throw the ball with different rotations and will aid in "pocket carry' instead of having to switch balls or move on the lane.
If you don't use bevel and your thumb is snug, i.e. "a perfect fit", you can only come out of the thumb one way and your timing must be perfect, or you'll hang up. =:^D
Post by: Stan on September 13, 2003, 11:48:01 AM
You fit the ball based on the bowlers makeup, then you fine tune with lateral for performance.
Post by: TECH SUPPORT on September 13, 2003, 12:12:40 PM
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I have taught you every thing I know and you still dont know DICK.
Post by: lane1lefty on September 13, 2003, 12:33:54 PM
Post by: 1fife on September 13, 2003, 04:04:59 PM
thnaks for the ideas
and keep them coming
i will post if something works-or if it doesnt-thats what htis is all about
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Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: JohnP on September 14, 2003, 01:57:56 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on September 14, 2003, 02:45:23 PM
I forget his screen name but Bowl Better Now was also commenting on coordinating finger pitches with Thumb pitches.
I wish he would elaborate more on this.
(A different forum).
rEgards,
Luckylefty