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Author Topic: Pin under  (Read 2590 times)

jjweb

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Pin under
« on: November 16, 2005, 02:44:20 PM »
I'm bowling on a heavy carrydown THS shot, which never seems to breakdown and is driving me crazy. I'm not getting the backend reaction I desire (arsenal listed in profile), and I have tried various surface/hand/line adjustments. All I get is midlane, absolutely nothing on the back.

I was looking at the Ebonite Xxxcel and noticed Ebonite's drill patterns are either above or below the fingers (drilled one up 4 X 5 pin under for a friend with a higher rev rate then me, and it's a total backend monster). Most of my stuff is pin above, just haven't tried pin below.

What about their "Rev leverage" drill?

What kinda reaction could I expect from a pin under drilling with my stats?

Stats:
lower revs
PAP 4 1/2 - 5/8 up
14-15 ball speed
45 degree tilt.

 

jjweb

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 11:12:38 AM »
Would I roll over any holes?

Brian Green

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 11:31:18 AM »
i drill 90 percent of my stuff pin under......

my pap is 5 1/2 over 1 in up...

 as far as tracking over any holes its going to depend on how much ur ball flares and also how far away from ur pap u put the pin......  the only time i have ever flared over the finger holes was when i put the pin 6 in away from my pap on the negative side of the ball......  i have flared over x holes b4  and that was on a stacked leverage ball....... i have yet to flare over an x hole with the pin under my fingers  .......


hope this helps  if u need more info, let me know....


p.s.  i will be drilling a xxxcel soon and i may drill it pin under  i dunno yet
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Sawuser

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 12:04:23 PM »
jjweb, with your pap being 4 1/2" over, your track is probably considered lower, & you probably would not have to be concerned with tracking over the fingers or thumb. If you have a lot of side rotation on your ball, carrydown will always present a problem for you, as will heavy oil in general. To combat that situation, you need to find a coverstock & a drilling that will assist you in getting your ball into a roll rather than skidding through the oil. If your pro shop operater knows your game & the problem you are having, he should be able to help you. With a lot of carrydown you will never be able to get a large hook because of it, but if you can get your ball to come into the pocket with a heavier roll instead of a sideways spin, your chance of striking will be greatly improved.
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Romans 14:11 Every knee shall bow



jjweb

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2005, 12:24:38 PM »
I am my proshop operator! With my normal release my PAP is 4 1/2 - 5/8 up but in order for me to keep in play on this condition, I have had to raise my track and come more up-the-back. So I remeasured my PAP and I'm closer to 5" with the up-the-back release.

I'm looking for continuous hook throughout the lane. I can create the skid, I just want something to pick up on the backend.

Sawuser

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2005, 12:47:59 PM »
quote:
I am my proshop operator! With my normal release my PAP is 4 1/2 - 5/8 up but in order for me to keep in play on this condition, I have had to raise my track and come more up-the-back. So I remeasured my PAP and I'm closer to 5" with the up-the-back release.

I'm looking for continuous hook throughout the lane. I can create the skid, I just want something to pick up on the backend.

Sorry jj, then you should know more about it than I do. Getting a ball to stand up & go into a roll is the ticket IMHO.
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Wayne
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Romans 14:11 Every knee shall bow



jjweb

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2005, 01:01:28 PM »
I don't want to waste money on a new ball, drill it pin under and have a $100+ door stopper.

I love my Total Shock & Awe, but even it won't make the turn in the oil. Everything is going too long and either hitting weak or washing out.

jjweb

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2005, 01:13:29 PM »
Asymmetric or Symmetric?

Sawuser

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2005, 02:37:57 PM »
jjweb, I know you are looking for more help than I can give, but a ball rep picked out a ball for me with low RG & fairly high diff. He told me to lay it out with the pin in the track & cg just right of center, & this would help the ball stand up quicker. According to the following chart, a 6 3/4 pin to pap will give you late hook. Don't know if this will help or if it's what you are looking for. BTW the ball was a super charge.
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AFFECT OF PIN PLACMENT  back to top
Pin to PAP distance:
0" - minimum flare potential, core is in it's most stable position, earliest roll with smoothest arc.
1 1/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, earlier roll with smooth arc.
2 1/4" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, early roll with strong arc.
3 3/8" - max flare potential, most unstable core position, medium length with the most hook potential.
4 1/2" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, late roll with flip/arc reaction.
5 5/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, later roll with a flip reaction.
6 3/4" - minimum flare potential, stable core position, latest roll with strongest flip.
Remember : These reaction charcteristics are all relative to the conditions they are being used on and may not perform as expected due to burning up too early or not setting up early enough.
Pin to grip center (GC) distance: The higher the pin above grip center the more lenght you will get fot given pin to PAP distance. The placement in relation to GC also affects where the tracks of track flare intersect (bow tie). Higher pin = Higher intersection. For this reason they suggest high trackers place the pin higher above GC to reduce the risk of flaring over the finger holes.


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Wayne
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JohnP

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2005, 02:40:26 PM »
jjweb  --  You're a pro shop operator, right?  Drill it like you want and if it doeswn't work, plug it and sell it used for more than you've got in it.  --  JohnP

jjweb

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2005, 02:57:09 PM »
I just drill my own stuff, I'm not a proshop. The only thing I haven't invested in is ball plug.

Do you have a picture of the Super Charge layout?

Sawuser

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Re: Pin under
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2005, 03:12:14 PM »
No, sorry, that was a couple of years ago & I no longer have the ball. I'm right handed & the pin was just left of the ring finger & a little lower, the cg was just right of center to get a little positive side. That's about all I can tell you except the ball did roll more with hardly any skid flip. Seems the problem you may run into also, is if the heads or mids dry up, but the backends are still wet, the ball will burn up before it gets there. Outside of a severe reverse block, that's about the worst condition you could ever have to bowl on. Good luck.
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Wayne
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Bomb Squad & Diamond Cutter

Romans 14:11 Every knee shall bow