Author Topic: Weak and Strong which combination? (Read 15222 times)

Doug Sterner · « **on:** November 21, 2010, 12:56:47 AM »

I was sitting in the shop the other night and started looking at the bowlers on the lanes, the balls on the racks and then the balls I have on the shelf for sale and I started thinking...

What''s the overall preference for getting balls to work on the house conditions for bowlers with stronger releases?

What combinations seem to perform best across the country?

weak core, weak cover, strong layout?
weak core, strong cover, weak layout?
strong core, weak cover, weak layout?
others?

Just curious what the consensus might be....

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug''''s Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

Edited on 11/21/2010 11:12 AM

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2010, 09:37:31 AM »

Choose the cover based on volume of oil and response desired off friction. Choose the layout and core for reaction shape and amount. That's basically how I look at it.

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2010, 10:09:10 AM »

Thanks CB...that's pretty much how I see it but sometimes thinking out of the box works best.

My home house has a lotof friction (40 yr old wood lanes) but they have a decent amount of oil in the middle of the lane (55 units) but the pattern is pretty short (last load of oil applied to the brush at 32 feet and buffed to like 38).

So the common local perception is to get a ball that goes really long (due to the short pattern)and on that responds very strong to the friction off the corner. However the heavy volume in the center COULD dictate a high flaring pin position but too much flare with too much coverstock and the ball will flat 10 all day. Put the pin too far from the PAP and you'll come in behind the headpin.
I personally prefer using a weaker ball with a stronger layout as opposed to a stronger ball with a weaker layout. If I am having an awesome day the strong ball will give me more strikes and will work better. However the amount of "forgiveness" in such a ball is usually significantly less than the weaker ball drilled strong.

As I said just looking to see how others conquer the scenario.

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2010, 10:30:28 AM »

I can think of 4 possibilities under the scenario you described, and considering your profile:
1)Outside line, sanded urethane, strong drill.
2)Weak/length drill, med-strong core/cover matte finish, outside line
3)Length/Flip drill, med-strong pearl,possibly asym, moderate shine to matte finish, steep angle toward gutter through the fronts to the 2-3 board just past the pattern(if the topography will allow).
4)Strong cover, weak drill, sanded to matte, ride the oil line and not cover too many boards.

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2010, 10:58:38 AM »

As I stated in my post of another forum I am just looking for opinions at this point...not necessarily for myself but just as information to add to my toolbox to better serve my customers.

Personally I am having the best luck in this house with these 2 balls....

Backlash Blue/Silver....60x4x60, small low hole, 2000 Siaair
Tropical Heat Hybrid....40x5-1/2x60, no hole, 3000 Siaair

Honorable mention:
Natural.....65x4-1/2x45, no hole, 2000 Siaair, light Sauce
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2010, 10:39:50 PM »

I''ve mainly used 4 balls this year for leagues...

1- urethane Natural

2- GravityShift

3- BarbedWire

4- Invasion

http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1

look @ my Invasion to see how it''s drilled it really gives me a nice reaction, its polished @ 4k

My Natural is drilled with the pin under the ring finger and CG @ about 50degree''s, the Gravityshift is just a stacked drilling with the Pin right next to the ring finger.. and the barbed wire is a Pin down 5x4 drilling or close to it.

My Barbedwire is nice on a house shot, but for some reason, carry is hit or miss, i can slam the pocket and left stone 9''s or 10''s all day long.. My G-shift gives me a stronger reaction but gets down the lane nicely... And My Natural is for when nothing else seems to work lol...

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" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl "

For my vids on youtube - search DLYskes1976
or look for me on facebook

Edited on 11/21/2010 11:41 PM

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2010, 12:48:10 AM »

I look at the complete picture - my situation is that I have a (over)complete arsenal where every now and then a replacement gap opens up. My basic reference is amount of oil/desired length and the reaction shape. I am not stuck with a brand, so I snoop around which ball will, with its core/coverstock combo, basically fill the overall oil volume/pattern length bill. Once that is settled, I think about the layout and surface changes, if needed.

My plan is to have a good match of all components from the start, and not force a ball to be something that it is NOT by design.

Coming back to the initial question, I'd tend to take an overall weaker ball package and drill it stronger. Giving a general answer is IMHO very difficult, because core/coverstock combos can react VERY differently today, from very smooth at the wet/dry edges to totally flippy. So, I'd rather take a ball further down the lane, just to make sure the layout supports a good breakpoint control.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2010, 09:25:00 PM »

Thanks for the input guys. As I said I am looking for basic information from "out and about" since much of what I see locally is the basic ho hum type stuff. I want to offer my customers the best possible product so I am asking what's going on elsewhere.

There is a local guy who has been drilling for a very long time but I don't see much coming out of his shop other than 2 basic layouts...pin at 1:30 with the cg in palm and the other is stacked.

Like I said...just looking for opinions and information to help better serve my customers :-)
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:38:52 AM »

quote:
There is a local guy who has been drilling for a very long time but I don't see much coming out of his shop other than 2 basic layouts...pin at 1:30 with the cg in palm and the other is stacked.

Strangely, very similar case here, too. Basically any ball I see from a certain pro shop is drilled label - except for recent cases which showed something like a double thumb(!) layout on a couple of plagues that got sold in my club. Really strange, and the reason why I personally have my balls drilled elsewhere. That's not fool-proof, but "my" ball driller is open for discussion and suggestions, and I have the good feeling that I can rely on his expertise (and therewith learning a bit), instead of just having a ball punched up without comment. I think that this customer feedback is a vital thing for a pro shop.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

bigz · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:06:59 AM »

i just started using this combination after confusing myself with core/cover..
hyroad-light/med
cell-med/heavy
ogre urethane-spares/fried shot
chris
--------------------
BIGZ-
BIG ON THE LANEZ!

GO STEELERS!!

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2010, 06:20:09 AM »

I bowled on something like this about 5-6 years ago. Old wood house, very tight in the middle. What worked best for me was a Track Mutant with a length layout. Strong cover to read the oil but the length layout would still allow for backend movement and high carry percentage.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

BackToBasics · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2010, 08:31:34 AM »

One layout that has worked really well for me and several other high rev players is essentially a 45 x 6 x 35 (above middle finger for me) on a medium-strong symmetrical ball with a "RICO" weighthole (must be 3" deep). This requires a the pin-CG to be about 4-5" so that the CG can fall below the midline for the weighthole. If necessary, bury the middle finger to end up with more thumb and side weight so you can go 3" with the hole.

The layout produces VERY minimal flare in the first part of the lane because of the long pin, but a good amount in the back part of the lane due to the weighthole. Put a piece of tape on the axis and watch it be steady but then really migrate downlane. This allows you to go with a stronger cover/core which helps with the read and also potential oil downlane. The long pin always prevents early hook in the track.

Whenever I suggest this layout, they always look at me and wonder if the ball will hook since most drillers around here just put the pin right of the ring finger. I always say trust me

BowlinStr8t · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2010, 10:44:09 PM »

I like to drill longer pins to PAP, and keep them low. I feel like most people here have too much on the back and the lower pin helps with the carry situation. I might drill a little stronger if it is a weaker cover/core, but still try to not drill higher pins.
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My ball won't hook- Heck who am I kidding--It never does!!

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2010, 06:45:35 AM »

I'd never follow a basic rule like "drill strong balls weak and weak balls strong." It makes no sense to me. Basic rules like that seem to come from people who do not want to think for more than 2 1/2 seconds..

I've done all 6:
Strong balls: drilled weak, medium and strong.
Weak balls: drilled weak, medium and strong.

I drill a ball based on the reaction I need or want, based on what I know about the ball and where I'm going to use it. I've recently drilled a Slingshot with a 5.5" pin to PAP and pin above the fingers, and drilled a Big Curve with the pin around 4" pin to PAP and MB in the strong position. Both balls worked great just that way.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

BackToBasics · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2010, 08:52:27 AM »

quote:
I'd never follow a basic rule like "drill strong balls weak and weak balls strong." It makes no sense to me. Basic rules like that seem to come from people who do not want to think for more than 2 1/2 seconds..

I've done all 6:
Strong balls: drilled weak, medium and strong.
Weak balls: drilled weak, medium and strong.

I drill a ball based on the reaction I need or want, based on what I know about the ball and where I'm going to use it. I've recently drilled a Slingshot with a 5.5" pin to PAP and pin above the fingers, and drilled a Big Curve with the pin around 4" pin to PAP and MB in the strong position. Both balls worked great just that way.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

Why the need to come off so crass? It has nothing to do with "thinking more than 2 1/2 seconds". When you have a combined drill and layout count well above 1000 you see trends in ball reaction. Sure, there are exceptions (like purposely getting the ball to overflare to control backend) but in my experience on the type of conditions that I've seen around the world, this basic rule works. But one thing that is missing is also the bowler's rev rate. So it is not just strong ball weak, it must be a strong release plus strong ball = weak drill. If a bowler comes in with a rev count 250 and below, of course you will not drill it weak, but the OP obviously stated "for bowlers with stronger releases"....

Author Topic: Weak and Strong which combination? (Read 15222 times)

Doug Sterner

Weak and Strong which combination?

Cobalt Bomb

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Doug Sterner

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Cobalt Bomb

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Doug Sterner

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

David Lee Yskes

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

dizzyfugu

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

Doug Sterner

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

dizzyfugu

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

bigz

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

TWOHAND834

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

BackToBasics

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

BowlinStr8t

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

charlest

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?

BackToBasics

Re: Weak and Strong which combination?