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Author Topic: MB on PAP  (Read 3918 times)

Southern California Bowl

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MB on PAP
« on: May 21, 2010, 06:47:16 AM »
When you put the MB on your PAP, does that really smooth out the movement of the ball in the back? I was recommended the layout and have never tried anything like that.
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kidlost2000

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2010, 05:10:23 PM »
Never had an MB on my pap but I've had it within an 1" on a few. Usually on a bowling ball with the pin cg mb are in an L shape.

For me depending on what I want the ball to do or if I want a weight hole will determine if I go off of the Pin and MB or the Pin and CG.

When the MB was kicked out a few times it was to keep the CG from being somewhere that needed a pot hole to make legal.

For me the few I've thrown drilled this way and the same for my brother who has done it a few times as well the ball was extremely strong in the midlane with a strong arc on the backend.

Keep in mind the bowling balls that were used were aggressive covers with a little bit of surface. They weren't skid snap, but they did have a very strong over all reaction including a strong arc and continuation on the backends.

This was done on two Animal Untamed, Delta Rule, and a Jigsaw.

For me depending on what I want the ball to do my first priority is pin placement, second is cg if needing a weight hole, if not then it is third and Mb placement comes second. This mainly applies to bowling balls that are 2nds due to pin cg mb not being inline.
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BKloss

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 05:23:56 PM »
Interesting thought, I would doubt the ball would do a whole lot because that would put the pin 6 3/4 from PAP...
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Edited on 5/21/2010 5:24 PM
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dizzyfugu

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 09:27:02 AM »
It should be a dead ball - effectively. MB on PAP means that the core is already in its final stable end roll axis/position, and, as BKloss mentions, you would have zero flare due to a 6.75 pin to PAP distance - with effectively NO flare ar all. Anything the ball would do is actually imparted by revs and side rotation, and I'd assume that it would not be a powerful hitter, since it immediately starts bleeding energy through roll upon release. Might be mellow, but useful...?
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J_Mac

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 09:49:57 AM »
Keep in mind that once you drill holes in a ball the pin will no longer be the location of the plane with the highest RG and the MB will likely move as well...

The ball might still flare.
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T C 300

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 03:50:01 PM »
ok so can somebody tell what differences(reaction, roll) between putting the pin on the pap VS mb on pap...????
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Dave_in_Rio_Rancho

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2010, 11:59:03 AM »
PIN on PAP should be a mild roller with an even curve. MB on PAP might be a good drilling for a urethane spare ball

What do you think JohnP?

And yes, as is pointed out in a later post, putting the MB on the VAL is a "whole other ball game" as the vertical axis line covers a lot of territory compared to a single point on it.



Edited on 6/19/2010 5:07 PM
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charlest

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2010, 04:11:56 PM »
quote:
When you put the MB on your PAP, does that really smooth out the movement of the ball in the back? I was recommended the layout and have never tried anything like that.


I suspect someone told you a misinterpretation of a true suggested drilling. WHile your PAP is on a line called the VAL, there are times when a drilling is called for that puts the MB on or close to the VAL. SUch drillings involve angles such as, PAP to pin to MB and the intersection of the pin to PAP line with the VAL. Read up on the Dual Angle drilling technique:
http://www.morichbowling.com/Drilling/DualAngleSeminar/DualAngleSeminar.htm

This is also a good reference:
http://www.morichbowling.com/Drilling/BowlingBallDrilling.htm
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JohnP

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 11:13:52 AM »
quote:
What do you think JohnP?


A customer would really have to twist my arm hard to get me to drill a ball with that layout.  As earlier mentioned the pin to PAP distance would be around 6 3/4".  Any small change in release could cause a move in the bowtie that would make the ball roll over one or more holes.  And it basically takes the MB to a "no effect" location.  If you want a long pin to PAP, go with 5 1/2 - 6" and use a symmetric ball.  --  JohnP
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Billy Ray

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Re: MB on PAP
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 06:30:36 PM »
quote:
quote:
When you put the MB on your PAP, does that really smooth out the movement of the ball in the back? I was recommended the layout and have never tried anything like that.


I suspect someone told you a misinterpretation of a true suggested drilling. WHile your PAP is on a line called the VAL, there are times when a drilling is called for that puts the MB on or close to the VAL. Such drillings involve angles such as, PAP to pin to MB and the intersection of the pin to PAP line with the VAL. Read up on the Dual Angle drilling technique:
http://www.morichbowling.com/Drilling/DualAngleSeminar/DualAngleSeminar.htm

This is also a good reference:
http://www.morichbowling.com/Drilling/BowlingBallDrilling.htm
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."



I agree I think you misunderstood putting the MB on the VAL vs the PAP.
The MB on the VAl does smooth out the midlane and backend reaction and helps the ball roll through the mids more and blend out a wet dry type pattern so this type of layout (MB on the VAL) can be very useful. You have to make sure your surface and Pin to PAP distance are suitable for the type of volume and length you are going to be bowling on with that particular layout.

I have used many MB on VAL and even beyond the VAl type layouts with great Success. Be sure you understand the benefits and drawback of these types of layouts before investing in a ball and make sure your Pro Shop driller understands the specific reaction your are looking for also. Don''t be afraid to ask what you may think are "stupid" or "begginner" questions. A knowledgeable pro shop will share his thoughts and should be able to explain the dynamics behind the layout and where you could and where you should not use these particular layouts.

Any questions feel free to ask me or any other Pro Shop guy here.

Good Luck.
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Edited on 6/21/2010 6:31 PM
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