General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: AllAirForceTwice on March 21, 2011, 12:17:19 AM
Title: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on March 21, 2011, 12:17:19 AM
Using a zero/zero thumb switch grip with slight hanging and coming around the ball at times when it's least desireable like during a string and naturally I leave the flat or ringing ten...
Trying out a 1/8 reverse and 1/8 away from palm switch grip... what should I be aware of or watching for?
Thanks in advance.
Edited by AllAirForceTwice on 3/21/2011 at 8:19 AM
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: JustRico on March 21, 2011, 08:20:28 AM
A lot quicker release....
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on March 21, 2011, 12:13:23 PM
So as long as my hand is in a leveraged position, I can increase my ball speed without fear of hanging?
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: JustRico on March 21, 2011, 12:50:04 PM
Theorectically yes...
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: charlest on March 21, 2011, 01:29:02 PM
Having used several of the thumb adjustments that you are now playing with (theoretically), I found, FWIW, that 0 reverse/forward allowed for less pressure and less reliance on precise thumb size (less fooling around with tape, seeking a perfect fit).
I had 0x0 for a while, but my thumb's physical relationship with my hand seemed to require some away ol left (I'm righty) side pitch for a cleaner release. So I now have 0 by 1/4 left or away from palm.
I don't know the cause for your "slight hanging". It could be the angle of your thumb is not perfectly aligned with the angle of your thumb hole/oval. It could be you need ONLY 1/8" left or away.
Did you used to have or use reverse? If so, why return to it?
I'd suggest trying one change instead of 2 at a time. If you do 2 changes, both reverse AND side and it doesn't work, how will you know which was the bad change????
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on March 21, 2011, 02:23:09 PM
True... We considered the risk when I was recently refitted this last Saturday drilling balls for Nationals. It was determined that I was stretched a bit... Got motivated afterwards to clean out my bowling closet and found fitting notes and I was indeed stretched 1/8 and 3/16s... Then I recalled that I had back-of-the-hand pain then that was attributed to a span too close w/o forward pitch (squeezing). I tried 1/8 forward pitch and hated the lack of early midlane roll I used to get, was too hard to read my reactions... So we added some span only and drilled 6 balls like that a few years ago...
Currently, I do not have pain, my oval is oriented properly and some slight wear inside the thumb (thanks to an interchangeable thumb... it's all one consistent phenomenon ball to ball now)...
So basically, just enough drag at times to cause some topping/chicken winging/split second release adaptations/etc... I have all 16 balls with the same cut to cuts now so I trying this less costly experiment. My Plan B is what you suggested CharlesT, just some away.
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: charlest on March 21, 2011, 02:29:16 PM
Sounds reasonable. Just offering what I experienced.
I guess you learned the hard way, if you change pitches, you do have to change spans a high percentage of the time (98% or so?).
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on March 22, 2011, 06:41:15 AM
Tried the new slug in PBAX where we all know every little error gets magnified x10... apparently the slight reverse definitely quicken the release and the away eliminated the drag... Never bowled on Shark but went 181 with a few wash-outs and 222 with a few splits... left an unforeseen amount of 9-pins but I was really able to come out clean for a change...
So guys, what type of pain from squeezing with too much reverse is the sign to back off on the reverse pitch?
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: charlest on March 22, 2011, 07:28:56 AM
Nice about the clean release. 9 pins, if you're righty, could be traceable to that clean release - slightly move revs = slightly more backend movement.
Pain: possibly in the wrist & up the arm - too much tendon pressure and not enough muscle. Can lead to tendonitis (tennis elbow).
As I mentioned above, the more reverse I used, themore precise the thumb fit had to be. The tighter thumb hole allowed less muscle to be used to hold onto the ball without squeezing harder. If your thumb is still slightly loose, you may need another 1/2 piece of tape to allow you to hold onto the ball with less pressure.
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: JohnP on March 22, 2011, 07:42:30 AM
I was gong to recommend a little more bevel on the 0/0 holes but it sounds like you've solved your problem. -- JohnP
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on March 22, 2011, 08:04:33 AM
I have been incrementally increasing the amount of bevel on my 45 degree ovals on the thumb's outside and in front for awhile... while that helped 85% I guess... was not 100%. I want to bowl more competitively after I retire from the Military and while I have the funds to perfect a few aspects of my game now, I am willing to try some of the more costly fixes... I hope others learn from your suggestion though... I see too many ugly thumbs in leagues and too little bevel on balls...
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on March 22, 2011, 08:06:32 AM
Thanks Charles, I will watch for that over the next few months...
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: dballz on March 22, 2011, 11:09:19 AM
i have a ?? currently my thumb pitches are 0 & 1/8 reverse. at times when i need to slow down, i feel the ball may be coming off my hand too soon & i am not coming around it well. my finger pitches are MF: 5/16 left & 3/16 away & RF: 9/16 right & 3/16 away. i am wondering if i should get rid of the reverse and put the 1/8 left in, so that i can still clear the ball well, but possibly not as quickly, since i do have the away on my fingers?
i know that pitch isn't all the blame on release& i am working on arm swing and such. thanks in advance!
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: JohnP on March 23, 2011, 08:36:12 AM
Better bowlers tend to use less bevel than those less skilled. They like the feel they get and have developed a proper release and callouses that allow them to use less. When I drill a ball I try to watch the customer bowl at least a game to check for friction or soreness of the thumb. I hate to see someone six months later and find out they've been fighting thumb problems, even though I tell them to come see me if they have any problems. -- JohnP
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on April 04, 2011, 09:27:03 AM
Agreed... I have very little bevel now. I see enormous amounts of bevel on balls which can be incredibly hard to duplicate IMHO... but a lot of people try to and they have all kinds of hang, drop or dump issues that just chew up thier thumbs... took a week off from bowling for a work trip so returning tonight at the PBAX on Shark... Hope it feels the as good. Good advice John. Thanks.
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: triggerman on April 04, 2011, 10:49:02 AM
I am a big fan of lateral left for rightys, you would be surprised the number of people I have grip Mo's fitting tubes and how naturally they are pitched that way. I see a lot of bowlers come in complaining of hanging up only to see their pitches be lateral right and forward
If you have not seen mo's perfomance fitting guide, I would recommend it at least as a starting point, I use it to start then tweek on my customers, most go away with a ball and show back up the following week with the rest of their arsenal asking that they all be changed to the new fit
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Chris Trigg Bowling Explosion Pro Shop Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley Fort Wayne Indiana
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: Harmsey on April 05, 2011, 06:44:49 PM
Wow, Dave, Your oval is huge,( lol) and I thought that that 1/8 rev was what I suggested a couple years ago. But you just couldn't change away from zero.
so when did you get reassigned, I noticed you haven't been around.
Steve Harms Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop USBC Silver Coach Prior Track Regional Staffer www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on April 07, 2011, 07:45:07 AM
Sep last year... Will send you a PM later. Yeah, you were right all along... I should have tried out Switch grips years ago... along with a few thumb options...
Title: Re: What should expect?
Post by: AllAirForceTwice on May 11, 2011, 10:24:01 AM