Author Topic: Why????? (Read 17300 times)

Doug Sterner · « **on:** February 10, 2010, 10:46:22 AM »

Now I am not professing to be a genius here or even a really smart guy but I have a serious question for both the pro shop guys out here and also the bowlers...

For the Pro Shop Guys....2 questions
1. When a "league hack" comes into your shop and says they want a Mutant Cell or Invasion to bowl on the house shot, why do you sell them the ball instead of getting them to get into a less aggressive ball that they will fare better with?

2. Why, even after selling them the Mutant Cell or Virtual Gravity or similar, do you drill the ball up max stacked leverage?

Don't we realize that when we do #1 and combine it with #2 that there is a 90% chance that the ball isn't going to work? Honestly...look at the heavy hooking balls that we see for sale on this site....90% are drilled stacked with the pin in the ballpark of 3-4" off the PAP...why?

Now for the customers...very simple...

Why don't you all trust your pro shop guy to put you in the ball you NEED instead of the ball you THINK YOU WANT? Then why do you tell him to "drill it to hook!" ?

I am simply baffled at the number of heavy hooking balls I see for sale here drilled for max hook and usually they are dulled up to look like 220 grit!

Why???

Help me out here guys!!!!
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Doug Sterner
Doug''s Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
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tommymo · « **Reply #46 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:07:40 AM »

I agree John . . . I only traded it because he bought it from me. Majority of the time when i get a customer that bought a ball like the Jigsaw off the net they want it to be really strong. Or as one customer says all the time "I want this ball to be Sick Nasty!!"
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Your mind is like a parachute . . . Useless if it's not open!!!!

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Kinalyx · « **Reply #47 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:46:41 AM »

The problem is simply education. The average bowler wants what theyre told they want(pros on TV, ads in the magazines, ect.). They also dont want to think when they bowl.

The average joe bowler wants to show up once a week, stand where they always stand & average 200 without a problem. The issue is that they always want the new hook monster because "random person" made it look good. When they finally get the hook monster, at the very least it means they have to move.

Ive known MANY house bowlers that can literally not move at all, not one inch. If they have to move in any way, their game goes from a 200 to a 140 because they simply cant adjust....at all.

So now pro shops have to deal with the internet & TV selling people on a ball that will NEVER work for them & their current game. The pro shop drills the ball the way the customer wants because if they dont, they lose business. Then after the guy has the ball & doesnt like it, its the pro shops fault(honestly, how many times have u seen the average bowler blame himself for making a bad shot or a bad choice?).

The pro shops are in a catch 22, if they try to sell them something different, they risk losing business, if they drill it knowing it wont work, they run the risk of losing the business of people this guy bashes the pro shop to.

I for one dont envy any pro shop operators in this day & age.

Shawn
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In the bag

Ebonite Mission(pin under bridge, low weight hole) polish over OOB
Storm Fast(pin under bridge, low weight hole)
Storm Natural(pin over ring)

Coming soon
high scores??

six pack · « **Reply #48 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:10:36 PM »

well I can't tell you guys how many times I've seen average joe the "HACK" bowler show up with his new heavy oil hook monster and pipe it up the ten with 90* rotation and 5 revs on a med/lite house shot and shoot the lights out. makes me shake my head.
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The harder I try the harder they fall

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #49 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:25:27 PM »

well sixpack the "hack" you describe is the type of bowler who NEEDS that type of bowling ball. they obviously don't generate enough momentum in their armswing to put proper speed or rotation on the ball so they rely on the ball to do all of the work and that's what balls like the virtual gravity, invasion, craze and c-3.5 have done.

so the guy in your scenario did right.....he got the ball he needed...not the ball he wanted because John Q Bowler had one or Randy Peetersen said it was the best ball on the planet.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
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six pack · « **Reply #50 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:36:35 PM »

they don't need those type of balls for that condition.they need to learn to bowl,but they don't.they run out and buy the hook monsters.game in a box is all people want.they don't enjoy bowling only scoreing.two sides of the coin.
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The harder I try the harder they fall

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #51 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:38:45 PM »

that's basically what I meant.....
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
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Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #52 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:52:18 PM »

It just comes down to no actual knowledge of the game. Personally, I used to buy a lot of the oilers before I had a clue. I liked to have the latest and greatest and no one ever talked me out of it, so I kept doing it. I had some success, but it was very shaky at best.

Now that I understand the game better and know more about surface prep and lay outs, all the stuff I have is mid priced. I can save $60 a ball and get a better reaction. Seems like a no brainer. Oddly enough EVERY single mid priced ball I have bought in the past 4 years paid for itself and then some very quickly. I'm still waiting for my Jigsaw to pay me back and I drilled it this summer. Rattler, paid me back in the first night I used it. Jigsaw is a great ball and I like it, but how often do I see a condition that I need it for...not often.

This probably makes me a jerk, but I love seeing the guy bring in his 3 ball roller with 3 high end bowling balls all drilled the same way, averaging in the 180's. I love seeing a guy walking in talking about how his new high end oiler is the greatest ball on the market, and proceed to watch it burn up at 30 feet and not make the pocket. This is why it's so easy on here to find these $210 balls with 10 games on them for sale for like $80.

If I were a pro shop owner, I would try to talk the buyer out of certain purchases, but in the end, the consumer knows more than you...just ask him/her.

Good Topic!
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!

Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #53 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:53:40 PM »

quote:
they don't need those type of balls for that condition.they need to learn to bowl,but they don't.they run out and buy the hook monsters.game in a box is all people want.they don't enjoy bowling only scoreing.two sides of the coin.
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The harder I try the harder they fall

I think that's the main problem. Very few people actually KNOW how to bowl correctly and think a $220 ball will turn them into pro's.
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!

OddBalls · « **Reply #54 on:** March 01, 2010, 01:59:13 PM »

We have a "special needs" bowler who happens to have some well to do parents..

Now, the guy takes three steps and throws a back up ball.

His aresenal includes:

Hammer Jigsaw
Black Widow Nasty
Mutant Cell
and a WD for spares

I asked our PS guy why he would sell and fit these balls for him..

Seems his parents came in the day before and told him NOT to try and talk him out of any balls that he wanted. He's convinced that he's going to be a pro bowler and it keep him focused..

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Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..

six pack · « **Reply #55 on:** March 01, 2010, 02:05:28 PM »

funny thing,I never buy new equipment anymore.too many good deals on used stuff out there.
my current arsensal
Ogre pearl
Ogre ss
Lane 1 Gem Stone
Fab black hammer
I do have an Ogre particle on the way. I too enjoy hook monsters even though they usually just sit on the rack.

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The harder I try the harder they fall

joeschmoe · « **Reply #56 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:33:54 PM »

I can relate to some of your customers Doug.I would rather have a
ball that fits perfect than a ball that may be right for the conditions I'm bowling on. If my fit is right I can decide for myself if the ball is right. And I've never blamed any pro shop for a bad reaction, I can only say I'm at fault. A ball can only be as good as the guy that drills it.

That being said, no pro shop owner in their right mind would sell a ball to someone that they've never seen bowl, yet there are some in existence who do just that because a customer is hot for the latest hook-in-a-box out there.
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Beer makes ya smart...It made Bud-wiser.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #57 on:** March 03, 2010, 07:04:30 PM »

I hardly have seen a decent bowler in our area who doesn't have either a Virtual Gravity or a Full Swing.

Many look very good with these balls!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS on the top hat it seems they are all moving their feet inside until it strikes! I don't get this post!

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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #58 on:** March 03, 2010, 09:09:45 PM »

Lucky lefty writes:
"PS on the top hat it seems they are all moving their feet inside until it strikes! I don't get this post!"

What don't you get? MY questions were pretty straight forward and simple...

Why are these "league hacks" walking in and demanding to buy the latest hook in a box oil monster when all they do is chunk the ball up the 2nd arrow? When teh pro shop caves in and gives them what they want then they complain they cannot keep the ball off the headpin.

On the other hand I have seen tons of pro shops push the latest and greatest on everybody when they walk in the door. Just had an issue like this the other night.

A lady walks in the door of a buddy's shop with a balkl hse just got from another shop. She wanted a ball that finished just a little bit more than her Tropical Storm. She pulls out a Black Widow Nasty drilled stacked leverage! This is the kind of crap I am talking about.

Some pro shops screw the customer over like this and then the rest of us suffer when the customer won't trust any shop anymore.

It just baffles me......
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
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bfreshour · « **Reply #59 on:** March 04, 2010, 08:35:03 AM »

I''''m a fairly new bowler and found this thread very interesting. I appreciate a lot of the insight here and I personally laugh at many of the bowlers in our league (my first league ever) simple due to the amount of equipment they have and their so-so averages (~180). This will be my 6th week in league (tonight) and here are my averages for each night up to this point:

120, 145, 161, 152, 159

That''''s a pretty good improvement for not having coach and just reading and watching everything I can find online.

My ball is a Mission X-OUT (I worry other bowlers make fun of me for throwing a Mission since I''m new) that was given to me by an Ebonite rep and I had drilled by a Pro who had never seen me throw. I just told her I was new to the game and the ball was given to me. She showed me how something was out of line (maybe the CG or Pin, not sure) but she would drill it the best she could.

I don''t plan on buying just any ball next time I get one, I''ll ask her and the Ebonite rep to at least watch me bowl (even if its not a lesson) so they can make a good recommendation on which ball to get, and how to have it drilled (and hopefully get my PAP, speed, revs from my current ball).

Edited on 3/4/2010 9:36 AM

Dave_in_Rio_Rancho · « **Reply #60 on:** March 04, 2010, 04:23:48 PM »

Doug, just go with the flow. Personally I have down balled several time now. The more the hacks throw the hook monsters the quicker the oil goes away - this means that mild equipment now has the advantage - enjoy - I know I am

Author Topic: Why????? (Read 17300 times)

Doug Sterner

Why?????

tommymo

Re: Why?????

Kinalyx

Re: Why?????

six pack

Re: Why?????

Doug Sterner

Re: Why?????

six pack

Re: Why?????

Doug Sterner

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Spider Ball Bowler

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Spider Ball Bowler

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OddBalls

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six pack

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joeschmoe

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LuckyLefty

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Doug Sterner

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bfreshour

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Dave_in_Rio_Rancho

Re: Why?????