Post by: DukeHarding on January 25, 2006, 02:05:59 AM
Saw one on the rack Monday night bowling...Don't see a lot of them.
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Duke Harding
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Bowling Coaches Web Site Link (http://"http://www.bowlingcoach.com/")
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynijf unir cevinpl!
Post by: jimensminger on January 25, 2006, 10:20:45 AM
Post by: Aud300 on January 25, 2006, 10:27:18 AM
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Sad but True!
Home of your San Antonio Spurs.
Don Jonietz Pro Shop, San Antonio, TX!
P.b.a. Southwest Region # 21946
Audric Bent
Post by: jimensminger on January 25, 2006, 10:37:18 AM
Post by: shelley on January 25, 2006, 10:47:45 AM
What sets them apart in my mind isn't hit, carry, roll, or reaction. It's Soaker. As I understand it (so you know it's not my experience), it lasts significantly longer than otherwise comparable coverstocks. That's why, when I went to the Ball Fairy on Monday, I got a Thing Lives. As infrequently as I can buy a ball, I'd like to try something that will last me three or four hundred games.
SH
Edited on 1/25/2006 11:36 AM
Post by: 802dave on January 25, 2006, 10:55:13 AM
quote:
As infrequently as I can buy a ball, I'd like to try something that will last me three or four hundred games.
Ditto! I've been looking, analyzing, etc... for a couple months now and have pretty well settled on Dyno-thane, but may still buy a Vapor Zone - it seems to be a lot like "The Thing Lives" but quicker-revving. As soon as I get a little extra cash, I be seeing the "ball fairy" as well.
Dave
Post by: Goof1073 on January 25, 2006, 10:59:36 AM
quote:If you like the look of a TL, but want think you want a "quicker-revving" ball then I would look at the Centrifugal Mass...with the correct surface / drilling this ball is just a beast!!
Ditto! I've been looking, analyzing, etc... for a couple months now and have pretty well settled on Dyno-thane, but may still buy a Vapor Zone - it seems to be a lot like "The Thing Lives" but quicker-revving.
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-Chris: DJ's Pro Shop : Auburn, MA
Post by: shelley on January 25, 2006, 11:02:11 AM
quote:
Ditto! I've been looking, analyzing, etc... for a couple months now and have pretty well settled on Dyno-thane, but may still buy a Vapor Zone - it seems to be a lot like "The Thing Lives" but quicker-revving. As soon as I get a little extra cash, I be seeing the "ball fairy" as well.
Might be a little quicker revving, the RG is a little lower in the VZ compared to the TL. But the TL has an 800-grit dull cover (I have to say that mine doesn't look like the picture, it's much darker, and blockbusterbowling.com, who usually has real pics on their site, doesn't for many DT balls) compared to the semi-shiny VZ. Probably it's a bit of a wash in the end.
So far, I like my TL. But it's only got about 5 games on it and I hear that Soaker needs a break-in period moreso than many other covers.
SH
Post by: tekneek on January 25, 2006, 11:12:54 AM
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Steve
Post by: 802dave on January 25, 2006, 11:20:05 AM
quote:
Might be a little quicker revving, the RG is a little lower in the VZ compared to the TL. But the TL has an 800-grit dull cover (I have to say that mine doesn't look like the picture, it's much darker, and blockbusterbowling.com, who usually has real pics on their site, doesn't for many DT balls) compared to the semi-shiny VZ. Probably it's a bit of a wash in the end.
So far, I like my TL. But it's only got about 5 games on it and I hear that Soaker needs a break-in period moreso than many other covers.
SH
My problem deciding what I really need or want, is I've been back bowling for a year now and don't have much equipment to compare to. I have a Columbia Aftershock which lopes a bit and finishes strong (I've lost a bit of confidence in this ball), a Hammer 3D Superhook (revs quick with a continuous backend), and a Columbia Big Bully (quick-rev, not a strong backend ball - good heavy oil ball).
I want something to replace the Aftershock; quicker-revving, strong backend. The CM certainly looks like it would work great for me; I have it ranked as the top ball for heavier-oil house shots. It's strong and I don't have a lot of hand, so it seems a good match for me.
My present proshop guy, that has never seen me bowl, thinks I should go with something weaker... Another proshop guy, not as experienced, that has seen me bowl, thinks "The One" would be a good fit. I don't think The One has enough backend for me; I've seen a couple guys throwing it where I bowl, they have a lot more hand than I do, it works well for them. I don't have near the hand they do! Hence, I think the CM would work for me.
I generally play straight up (or a very small swing) about the 8-board on a medium house shot; this is when a guy with The One is swinging it across the 4th arrow out to 5 and back...
What do you think?
Dave
Post by: shelley on January 25, 2006, 11:39:51 AM
If the TL gets stronger as I put more games on it, it'll be exactly what I'm looking for, Steve.
SH
Post by: 802dave on January 25, 2006, 11:46:19 AM
Dave
Post by: 802dave on January 25, 2006, 01:47:18 PM
A theoretical question for you: The One has a box finish of 4000 and a BTM backend rank of 14.5. If you knock the box finish down to 1-2000 wouldn’t the backend become weaker? And the same for the CM, which is a solid/pearl mix, box finish… I’m not sure; a BTM backend rank of 16.0; if you polish the CM up a bit as suggested by some on here, wouldn’t the backend get stronger?
With the above info being very subjective, I know it really doesn’t work out that black & white on the lanes, but you see where I’m going with my thinking. I don’t have a lot of hand, it just makes a lot more sense for me to get the CM and polish it as necessary and definitely end up with a strong backend ball; rather than taking a chance on The One. If it (One) squirts too much in the box finish and I dull the cover, it doesn’t make sense to me that it would finish strong enough for me. But that’s my level of experience talking too…
Thanks!
Dave
Post by: Pin_Daddy on January 25, 2006, 01:56:20 PM
Some pretty good cores as well now that I think about...heck Dyno-Thane just know how to build a great hitting, long-lasting ball
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Literal translation?
Out of the frying pan and boned up the butt with a flaming hot poker!
Post by: 802dave on January 25, 2006, 02:20:44 PM
I'm still interested though what you have to say about my theoretical question on the backend reactions with cover adjustments on the CM & the One.
Thanks!
Dave
Post by: legend4life95 on January 25, 2006, 02:29:35 PM
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****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****
Post by: charlest on January 25, 2006, 05:19:18 PM
quote:
CM vs The One:
A theoretical question for you: The One has a box finish of 4000 and a BTM backend rank of 14.5. If you knock the box finish down to 1-2000 wouldn’t the backend become weaker? And the same for the CM, which is a solid/pearl mix, box finish… I’m not sure; a BTM backend rank of 16.0; if you polish the CM up a bit as suggested by some on here, wouldn’t the backend get stronger?
With the above info being very subjective, I know it really doesn’t work out that black & white on the lanes, but you see where I’m going with my thinking. I don’t have a lot of hand, it just makes a lot more sense for me to get the CM and polish it as necessary and definitely end up with a strong backend ball; rather than taking a chance on The One. If it (One) squirts too much in the box finish and I dull the cover, it doesn’t make sense to me that it would finish strong enough for me. But that’s my level of experience talking too…
Thanks!
Dave
Dave,
you opened up a whole can of worms with stock finish on one pattern/amount of oil versus polishing up, in varying degrees, the stock cover and the new cover requiring/performing best on a different set/amount of oil. This is a discourse requiring many paragraphs/levels of discussion.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: 802dave on January 25, 2006, 06:30:07 PM
quote:quote:
CM vs The One:
A theoretical question for you: The One has a box finish of 4000 and a BTM backend rank of 14.5. If you knock the box finish down to 1-2000 wouldn’t the backend become weaker? And conversely for the CM, which is a solid/pearl mix, box finish… I’m not sure; a BTM backend rank of 16.0; if you polish the CM up a bit as suggested by some on here, wouldn’t the backend get stronger?
With the above info being very subjective, I know it really doesn’t work out that black & white on the lanes, but you see where I’m going with my thinking. I don’t have a lot of hand, it just makes a lot more sense for me to get the CM and polish it as necessary and definitely end up with a strong backend ball; rather than taking a chance on The One. If it (One) squirts too much in the box finish and I dull the cover, it doesn’t make sense to me that it would finish strong enough for me. But that’s my level of experience talking too…
Thanks!
Dave
Dave,
you opened up a whole can of worms with stock finish on one pattern/amount of oil versus polishing up, in varying degrees, the stock cover and the new cover requiring/performing best on a different set/amount of oil. This is a discourse requiring many paragraphs/levels of discussion.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Well, is someone holding you back? What is your "reader's digest" answer?
Or if you'd rather, give us your dissertation.
Dave
Post by: charlest on January 25, 2006, 07:45:20 PM
quote:quote:quote:
CM vs The One:
A theoretical question for you: The One has a box finish of 4000 and a BTM backend rank of 14.5. If you knock the box finish down to 1-2000 wouldn’t the backend become weaker? And conversely for the CM, which is a solid/pearl mix, box finish… I’m not sure; a BTM backend rank of 16.0; if you polish the CM up a bit as suggested by some on here, wouldn’t the backend get stronger?
Thanks!
Dave
Dave,
you opened up a whole can of worms with stock finish on one pattern/amount of oil versus polishing up, in varying degrees, the stock cover and the new cover requiring/performing best on a different set/amount of oil. This is a discourse requiring many paragraphs/levels of discussion.
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Well, is someone holding you back?
Yup, typing with one hand, no upper case and little punctuation.
quote:
What is your "reader's digest" answer?
Or if you'd rather, give us your dissertation.
Dave
OK, I'll try.
Briefly:
"CM vs The One:
A theoretical question for you: The One has a box finish of 4000 and a BTM backend rank of 14.5. If you knock the box finish down to 1-2000 wouldn’t the backend become weaker?"
The One's box finish is not only 4000 grit, but also polished.
There are at least 4 down steps from box: 4000 grit, 2000 grit, 1500 grit and 1000 grit, all dull. all will make the ball grab the lane earlier and make the backend less, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE TO USE ALL 3 ON THE SAME OIL PATTERN & AMOUNT. the situation is rarely that simple. often, the case is the next step down is barely usable on the same pattern. As you decrease the grit level, you increase the amount of oil that the ball will handle and you generally increase the amount of overall hook, keeping all other factors identical.
"And conversely for the CM, which is a solid/pearl mix, box finish… I’m not sure; a BTM backend rank of 16.0; if you polish the CM up a bit as suggested by some on here, wouldn’t the backend get stronger?"
The same thing is true for the CM, in reverse, as you add either polish or increase the grit level (make the surface finer and finer), the ball skids further and further, usually conserving more and more energy. At what point you skid too far depends on all the usual relevant factors. At that point, the ball is to skid/flip to handle safely and speed and release consistency become super-critical,until you have zero room for error. Same picture in reverse for the One. As the CM gets a finer and shinier surface, you need to use it on less and less oil.
Some balls have wider ranges than others. Some high load solid particles can only be polished so far; they need a minimum of oil, no matter how you polish them. Some resin pearls will only handle so much oil; even at 320 or 400 grit dull they can only handle so much oil. solid resins, IN GENERAL, seem to have the widest range of possibilities; between rough or ultra fine sanding and light to very heavy polishing, they can probably handle the widest range of oil pattersn, "IN GENERAL".
does this make sense?
Keep in mind that house oil patterns, like walls, xmas trees,top hats, can hide differences in balls, making seemingly very different balls have very similar ball reactions. drllings and balls with asymmetric cores (both of these balls have them) throw a ton more variables into this mix. that why i say things like, "in general", and "keeping all other variables or factors the same".
hand is kind of tired now; will be glad to answer any other questions later or tomorrow.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien