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Author Topic: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias  (Read 1848 times)

kendog

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Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« on: June 08, 2004, 04:27:58 PM »
I'm considering redrilling my Thing Returns with the pin about 5" off pap and mass bias on leverage. It's currently drilled with the pin an inch over the fingers with the cg kicked in slightly and it's just not as strong on the back as I would like. Just looking for some educated opinions. I've never had much luck with pins over ring layouts as most of them move a tad too late for me.

Basically, I plan to have the pin in middle finger with the cg and MB crossed over my center line. Hoping to get down the lane with stability and strong flare on the back. Is the MB strong enough to do me any good with this ball?
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes
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kendog

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 10:45:47 AM »
ttt
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes
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kendog

kendog

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 02:10:36 PM »
Maybe I didn't describe my intentions very well. I intend to have pin close to my track which is about 1 1/2-2" off my middle finger (pin in finger), then the cg and in turn the mass bias would be angled over towards my pap with the mass bias on the 3 3/8". So the pin is farther away from the axis than the cg as well as the MB. I'm hoping to get a weak but reading front end and continuation with increasing flare as I hit the backend. The layout basically makes an X as the line from the pin through MB crosses the vertical centerline between my fingers and thumbhole.
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes

Edited on 6/9/2004 2:54 PM
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kendog

kendog

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2004, 03:06:43 PM »
any other thoughts?
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes
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Phillip Marlowe

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2004, 08:05:45 PM »
NO. It isn't.
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jimensminger

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2004, 08:58:44 AM »
aFter plugging, and before drilling be sure and fine your new CG..it may have moved. K of the M has the right idea,...a flare hole drill will help the pop on the back.
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kendog

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2004, 09:31:11 AM »

quote:
NO. It isn't.


Are you saying the Mass Bias is negligible?
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes
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Phillip Marlowe

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2004, 11:37:07 AM »
I am saying that it is not worth your time worrying about given the core of this ball -- or most balls quite frankly.  Just check where the CG and pin are placed and you can pretty much determine the totality of the core's influence on the ball's reaction.
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kendog

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2004, 12:00:41 PM »
I was reading on the influence of the MB being stronger than cg as far as ball path and flaring. Apparently opinions differ. This writer mentioned specifically that this was true of symmetrical ans assymmetrical as well.
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes
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Phillip Marlowe

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2004, 03:12:12 PM »
quote:
I was reading on the influence of the MB being stronger than cg as far as ball path and flaring. Apparently opinions differ. This writer mentioned specifically that this was true of symmetrical ans assymmetrical as well.
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kendog
avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes


Ken, the Mass Bias on symmetrical cores is really just an extension of the pin-cg orientation on the drill.  Simple rule: in most cases, the closer the CG is to the gripline center on a symmetrical ball, the "longer" the ball will go, as you move from the gripline to the PAP the ball tends to roll sooner for any normal pin placement.  Similarly the flare on the ball is primarily determined by the distance the pin is from the PAP.  The CG orientation of pin to PAP creates essentially the rest of the reaction.

A thought.  If the Mass bias is really so important, and I am not sure it IS that important, then it is important because it creates a definite preferred spin or roll axis for the ball.  To the extent there is a difference, the stronger the mass bias, in my experience, the more narrow the ball is -- the more narrow the condition on which it can be used.   Why?  Because it appears to me that the stronger mass bias balls tend to reach their preferred axis sooner and roll out slightly sooner than other balls I have tried.  Because the effect is small, if it exists, I have attributed such differences to my imagination  -- and what I perceive as more narrow usefulness of these balls to the coverstocks and nature of the beasts.

Opinions do definitely differ, but I don't see enough of a difference to worry about it most of the time.  All the marked mass bias spots tell me is that ball manufacturers do not do a great job of marking and checking CGs.
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AllAirForceTwice

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Re: Where, and How Strong is T/R mass Bias
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2004, 04:00:56 PM »
Kendog, there is a informative article in "Bowling this Month" magazine from Jun or Jul 2003 (I forgot which) by Mo Pinel that thoroughly explains asymmetrical vs symmetrical layouts. I agree with most everyone's comments (including MB having more influence than cg) except the last half of Mr Marlowe's post (Posted: 6/10/2004 3:12 PM) leaves this subject a little unfinished is all. Respectively, I think there is just more to it than that. Symmetrical core balls really don't have a "mass bias" because their preferred spin axis migrates towards the thumbhole after drilling when spun on a free spin machine... confirmed both of mine (Storm's Too Hot and Power Bolt) on our house's free spin machine... My understanding of mass-biased balls is that the purpose is allow drillers the ability to finetune the shape of the hook (hockey stick vs arc) by forcing the ball to stand up specifically where driller intends it to. Coverstock and surface will be main influence here though.
 
I would place pin 3 3/8s from PAP and kick out the CG 2-2.5 ins from gripline put the balance hole on VAL with zero pitch... should grab midlane better with continuation on back end on light carrydown. According to the company website it is a Skid/Snap pearl reactive ball don't expect lots of Arc here.

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