Post by: Redline on December 18, 2006, 01:21:40 PM
I picked up an Angular One last week and had it drilled pin over bridge, mb in the strong position. My usual layout since I was unsure of the reaction. I brought it back to legal weight with an x-hole on my VAL about 2 inches from my PAP. Basically the same layout as my Xcel Pearl which has been great for me.
Ball is still in box condition-since I've been hesitant to jump on cover adjustments just yet.
Here's the issue. Playing straight down and in this ball rocks. Carries great, hits like a truck and is nice and controllable.
I was hoping for a bit more versatility...but am having issues with a couple things.
1. When playing any sort of swing the ball comes in weak. I've played on a variety of shots and I get the same reaction...the ball makes it to the breakpoint, but instead of driving through the pindeck it rolls up. I still strike, but not with the same pin reaction as playing straight up. The pins tend to just fall over with late taps. I've tried a number of things but can't seem to get the ball to be continuous through the pin deck. The only thing I can think of that the ball is burning up in the back end.
2. When I hit dry board on the outside...the ball dies. My SR300 is smooth off the same point and rolls to pocket. The Xcel jumps off it like someone kicked it. The Angular One grabs, turns, and dies. Again, maybe just burning up in the backend.
Nothing against this ball...it's great for playing straight up, but I can't figure out why I can't get the reaction I want when trying to cover more boards.
Thanks in advance
Post by: Greg T on December 18, 2006, 09:37:43 PM
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calling you the scum of the earth is insult to the real scum."
Post by: Redline on December 18, 2006, 11:36:16 PM
Lenny360-I throw the ball a number of different ways. I'd like to think I'm pretty versatile and can maintain my average playing a number of different ways.
The ball responds well to a variety of hand position and speeds in a controlled manner. I have yet to see this ball take off unpredictably or make a snappy reaction with any release I have used. That being said...playing with lots of grab to minimal grab and trying to play a swing has been difficult. It is as you described...where it grabs but doesn't accelerate into the pin deck.
I kept moving to various lines...when I moved way into the oil pattern...4th arrow on a fresh shot when everyone was playing the track around 7 because the ball won't hook...it cleared the heads smoothly, made the turn and revved up a little bit before dying down. This is the most I've gotten from it.
All that being said...I'm going to keep at it. I still love this ball because its great playing straight up-which is what I am focusing on. If need be and I need to move it...well that's what the Xcel is for.
I will keep you posted with results as I get more games on it.
Post by: ambi1 on December 18, 2006, 11:53:54 PM
Another thing to check is the quality of stripping of the back end.
as a matter of curiousity, how do your other balls play on the same shot... do the also peter out??
I have also ordered an angular and have a vested interest in the topic too..
regards
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: chitown on December 18, 2006, 11:59:27 PM
Another thing that you may consider is the x-hole. Maybe this X-hole is causing the ball to hook stop on you.
Maybe Jeff U can chime in on this one.
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GO BEARS! Super Bowl bound!
Post by: Jeff Ussery on December 19, 2006, 06:41:49 AM
What redline is commenting on is not unheard of. In fact, with the improper matchup, this ball (and any ball for that matter) will exhibit these same properties.
Look further into his description and you will find the answer. He seems to love the reaction when he can play straighter launch angles. But when he has to begin throwing the ball away from the pocket, he feels that even though the ball makes the pocket, it just doesn't have the same drive/hit. In his profile, he mentions that his natural tendency is to play straighter angles in the first place. So let's assume for a minute that he is less comfortable playing further inside than playing straighter.
What we have to realize here is that the bowler has a high-response bowling ball paired with a high-response ball layout. The Angular One is designed and formulated to read the friction spot quickly and create large entry angles. The layout that he's drilled in this ball (for his PAP) is also a higher-response ball layout. This layout is used to increase length, retain axis rotation, and delay hook. Once this Angular One reads the friction, it is destined to transition very quickly. This breakpoint move is definitely one that this bowler does not generally see in his ball reaction.
For this bowler (redline), I would recommend using some 2000 Abralon on the ball. I've tried this with several One series balls and have had good results. This grit level seems to smooth out the ball reaction just enough to change the transition and create a different ball reaction without making the ball burn up early. This should change the reaction just enough to read the lane differently without becoming a totally different bowling ball.
Good luck redline!
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Jeff Ussery
Powerhouse Training Clinics
www.proshoptraining.com
Pro Shop Help Desk Hotline - 785-843-2658
Post by: Greg T on December 19, 2006, 07:32:41 AM
BTW, good read!
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calling you the scum of the earth is insult to the real scum."
Post by: Jeff Ussery on December 19, 2006, 08:13:22 AM
It is nice for people to see the logical progression and thinking behind the changes. I hope that with the information I provide in situations like these, people can see why they should change something instead of just grasping at straws. I hope I helped out!
Thanks for the compliment! Good to hear from you!
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Jeff Ussery
Powerhouse Training Clinics
www.proshoptraining.com
Pro Shop Help Desk Hotline - 785-843-2658
Post by: cmoore3wins on December 19, 2006, 10:39:34 AM
quote:
Greg-I thought about changing the cover. The reason why I was so hesitant was that I didn't want to ruin the ball altogether.
Why do people think this?????????
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MoRich World Order
mWo for life - It's a "HOLE" new game....
I flip out ten pins, you flip them off....
Mos cores = Mo scores....
Post by: Greatness on December 19, 2006, 10:52:54 AM
Greatness
Post by: mrbowlingnut on December 19, 2006, 11:31:21 AM
Post by: Redline on December 19, 2006, 12:53:25 PM
Jeff-I appreciate the input. I will look into cover adjustments after I try moving even deeper into the shot.
cmoore3wins-I didn't adjust the cover right away because it was a brand new ball and I didn't want to throw other variables into mix especially when I didn't know what the cover change would do. I was thinking along the lines of lenny306 where if I dulled the ball down it would just read earlier and still die in the backend.
D-Pat- I have 3 balls with this layout right now...Big Time Pearl, Xcel Pearl, and the Angular one. All 3 are not in a flare reducing position. The BTP and Xcel are VERY angular. They clear the heads, and jump off the dry. I use them to bump off dry boards when the shot breaks down. Everyone in league plays straight up the oil track around the 7 board and just chase it as the night goes on. There is always plenty of head oil inside the 3rd arrow. So I just throw it out it hits the breakpoint at about the 6 board and comes screaming back.
Now mind you all the ball still carries all 10. The concern with the ball was that it comes in a manner that appears to be "weak". Meaning the BTP and Xcel push all 10 into the pit. The Angular One spills them over the pin deck.
For now...I'm going to put a few more games on the ball and play deeper...if that doesn't do it...I will go with Jeff's advice and report back.
Post by: Jeff Ussery on December 19, 2006, 12:53:36 PM
What I was trying to say was that it sounds like the customer's ball is trying to move from right to left too quickly, and he made need a little smoother breakpoint so that the ball enters the pocket properly.
Of course this will be different for every bowler. I have preferred my Angular Ones in the box finish (4000 with Factory Finish Polish) for my physical game.
Good luck, and Bowl to Win!
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Jeff Ussery
Powerhouse Training Clinics
www.proshoptraining.com
Pro Shop Help Desk Hotline - 785-843-2658
Post by: CBowl on December 19, 2006, 02:39:03 PM
Post by: Juggernaut on December 20, 2006, 08:40:27 PM
Not trying to discourage you or anything, but the angular one has a mass bias rating higher that your other balls mentioned here ( big time pearl and xcel pearl).
I have had the same problem with assymetricals that have the mass bias in the strong position.
I have an original inferno, and after hearing MUCH hype, bought a classic zone. Drilled it pin over bridge, mass bias strong, and it rolled like aTURD!
I have medium speed ( 14-16 mph ) and plenty of hand. What was happening to me was that the mass bias was getting the ball to turn over way too early, while it was still in the head oil. Because of the heavy oil, it would flare a bunch, but not hook. By the time it got to the breakpoint, it didn't have much flare potential left in it. It would roll almost out and hit like my little sister, not much at all.
You may have the mass bias in a position that is too strong too early for your hand release. As long as you play a straighter line, it works fine because it doesn't have to expend lots of energy "turning the corner", so to speak, but when you play a swing shot, it burns all the energy before it can get out and back. I first though it was the lanes, but like you, all my other stuff still worked and worked fine. Only the classic zone had this problem.
Since then, I have learned that, for me at least, I have to be very careful where I place my mass bias on balls with a strongish mass bias rating, lest they befall the same fate.
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"TOO SOON THE POWER, TOO LATE THE WISDOM"
Post by: Redline on December 20, 2006, 10:57:25 PM
I much appreciate your insight, I have several others, including balls from the "One" lineup...all of which have the MB in a strong position.
Anyways...to sum up a few things: THS is changing tomorrow night. Supposedly LOTS of oil. I'm going to give it a go again and wear in a few more games onto this cover and see if it "wakes up" like a few of my other Ebonite balls. If not...then I will take it down to 2000grit as advised.
Again...this ball is NOT a dud for me. It plays absolutely great up the boards. I'm just trying to get the best of both worlds. Oh wells...tomorrows a new day and I am looking forward to giving it another go.
Thanks to everyone who has provided input thus far!
Post by: themachine300 on December 21, 2006, 12:25:24 AM
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Move left, hook it more.....
Tommy Jones is a Gamecock fan...are you???
Post by: BallsDeep on December 22, 2006, 01:24:20 AM
BYEEEEEEE
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]
Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: Redline on December 22, 2006, 10:47:55 AM
Went to league night last night. They had changed the shot again.
35ft top hat pattern. Dry boards the outside...flooded middle.
Everyone had trouble playing straight up trying to get their equipment to hook. Lots of washouts and lots of splits. During practice I tried opening up the lanes...the ball still won't flip (just skidding...naturally).
I played straight up the track line around the 6-7 board and the ball just came screaming back. I had SO much area that the ball would recover from. I'd go soft on the release and the ball would leaving a 10 pin. I'd pull it and it would hold line. I'd swing it out to the gutter and it would bounce back without rolling out. I'd say I could pretty much playing anywhere within 10 boards and leave decent count. So while everyone was way under average struggling to get their ball to the pocket...I was slightly over average. (Had some separate issues-but that's another story).
I still haven't worn in a track line, and didn't try and swing it yet. I will give it a few more games to wear in. This ball is taking a while to get a track worn in...but it seems to be getting stronger in the backend recovery the more games I put on it.
Till next time...have a happy holiday!
Post by: PinCrusher91 on December 22, 2006, 11:04:13 AM
hope this helped
PC91