BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Ebonite => Topic started by: bergerkos on January 27, 2009, 11:42:15 PM
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Hi, people. I don't know who can tell me best about my question, if it is not you.
I've got a stock of about 4o brand new first quality balls, undrilled etc. Among them are 9 Ebonite balls: Timberwolf PL-EXP = 5 balls and Seawolf = 4 balls. (there are also others, like Brunswick RHINO dark blue and some other ones).
I mean, all these are discontinued by the manufacturers, but I need to decide their real value for today. Talking about the EBONITE balls I just mentioned, they were posed as first quality balls rated from 109$ to 145$ , according to the data found at www.bowlingball.com.
But the question is, let alone the exact price: can they still be counted as equal with other first quality balls and be valued accordingly? Or maybe they could be of interest only to some long-time experienced bowlers?
Or, has their value generally decreased by now, say, because of some technology advancement? Or, maybe there are some other factors to consider?
I just wanna have the right angle of view, because I'm not a bowler myself and need to sell this stuff. But of course, it would be interesting to sell them according to their real value.
Would appreciate very much everyone's opinion. Thanks in advance.
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They have some collector value but on today shots they are pretty much darts, I still have a Timberwolf Solid and Sea Wolf great dry lane balls on today's oil.
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O-o. Does this mean, that for somebody who doesn't care about the collector value, those old balls are no better than today's average cheap house balls? Or is it actually worse??
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got any brunswick or columbia 300 balls. please send me info. i am interrested if it is some older stuff. elite and morich also has interrest
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quote:
O-o. Does this mean, that for somebody who doesn't care about the collector value, those old balls are no better than today's average cheap house balls? Or is it actually worse??
Not at all.
The Timberwolf solid was a heavy oil ball. I am surprised by mrbowlingnut, Barry's saying he uses it on dry lanes. Maybe he altered the cover or it is oil soaked (An oil soaked ball will hook much less than when it was new.). The Seawolf was for medium-light to medium oil.I can see it being for light to medium-light oil in today's environment. These balls are about 10 years old.
bergerkos,
I am not sure which Timberwolf has "PL-EXP" as part of its name. From where are you getting those letters?
There was a solid, a pearl, and a tour Timberwolf.
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=620
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=621
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=622
As for their saleability, it depends on how well someone liked them back when they were new. If you put them on Ebay, The Timberwolf, depending on which model you have, might go for $25 + shipping or it could go for $125 + shipping. It's hard to say. I knew, back then, a lot of people who LOVED the Timberwolf solid. The series wasn't around very long however.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 1/28/2009 1:34 PM
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Eh, I'm so sorry people, but all this stuff, together with myself, is in Moscow Russia. If you are still interested -- there'll be no problem about it, sure thing:-)
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Not at all.
I am not sure which Timberwolf has "PL-EXP" as part of its name. From where are you getting those letters?
There was a solid, a pearl, and a tour Timberwolf.
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=620
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=621
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=622
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
I found those letters on the cartoon box
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I just sold a NIB Grey Wolf Pearl on eBay for about $80 shipped, so that would give you some kind of idea of the range you'd be looking at.
Basically if you get lucky and find someone who's been looking for one of these for a long time, you could get around the price of a newer ball today, but they won't sell for like $200 or $300 if that's what you're looking for.
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
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So then, it will basically depend on whether or not I find people here in Moscow, who will value these balls for what they are.
I didn't consider the option of shipping 'em, since shipping things out of Russia is a tricky thing. I have only been thinking about local buyers so far...
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I just sold a NIB Grey Wolf Pearl on eBay for about $80 shipped, so that would give you some kind of idea of the range you'd be looking at.
Basically if you get lucky and find someone who's been looking for one of these for a long time, you could get around the price of a newer ball today, but they won't sell for like $200 or $300 if that's what you're looking for.
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
No, not $300 definitely just hated to give them away for $50, you know.
THanks for your answers!
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Eh, I'm so sorry people, but all this stuff, together with myself, is in Moscow Russia. If you are still interested -- there'll be no problem about it, sure thing:-)
The distance thing seems to be a slight problem.
Shipping to the US, where most but not all of us are would be prohibitive (more than the ball is worth). But there are people in Europe who could be interested.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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quote:
quote:
Eh, I'm so sorry people, but all this stuff, together with myself, is in Moscow Russia. If you are still interested -- there'll be no problem about it, sure thing:-)
The distance thing seems to be a slight problem.
Shipping to the US, where most but not all of us are would be prohibitive (more than the ball is worth). But there are people in Europe who could be interested.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Ah, it's not so much about distance, it is more about the cost of the (Russian) customs formalities. This is what it's all about...
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The PRO model had a different color PIN. I believe it was green color pin, the core and cover were much weaker then other. Can't say they have much of a value since on the today's lane conditions all the ball would be considerd weak.
Unless you're lucky enough to find a collector, you'll sit on them for awhile. Find a price you're comfortable with and get rid of them because they don't increase in value with age.
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The PRO model had a different color PIN. I believe it was green color pin, the core and cover were much weaker then other. Can't say they have much of a value since on the today's lane conditions all the ball would be considerd weak.
Unless you're lucky enough to find a collector, you'll sit on them for awhile. Find a price you're comfortable with and get rid of them because they don't increase in value with age.
Just to put it straight: would it be wise enough, then, to give them away at a price of a house ball? Seeing, that the buyer will still have to drill them before using .(Suppose, I DON'T want to be "sittin' on them for awhile")
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Just to put it straight: would it be wise enough, then, to give them away at a price of a house ball? Seeing, that the buyer will still have to drill them before using .(Suppose, I DON'T want to be "sittin' on them for awhile")
Sorry, looks like a stupid question on my part. It says: "the price I'm comfortable with". Sorry, people.
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You're customer base for the balls is very limited. Who's willing to buy a ball for $70 that they can use as a spare ball? It's not vine, it doesn't get any better with age.
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Why are balls in this age range always considered "darts" in todays age? Yes, I understand that oils and volumes have changed, but I can take an Ebonite 8 Ball from around the same era and get it to move plenty on today's conditions. The Timberwolf will not be as straight as a spare ball and the SeaWolf wasn't exactly a straight ball back in it's day either, especially if you play with surfaces.
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You're customer base for the balls is very limited. Who's willing to buy a ball for $70 that they can use as a spare ball? It's not vine, it doesn't get any better with age.
If any ball that does not cover 40 boards is considered a"spare" ball in your eyes, then yes. But this is so far from reality, i wouldn't even venture a guess.
A dull Timberwolf can still be used for medium to medium-hevay oil. A polished one or the pearl can still be used for medium-light to medium oil, the largest current range of house shots. That means they can be used EFFECTIVELY in 95% of the leagues AND tournaments in the US. That is hardly a spare ball.
I'm sorry bergerkos can sell some of them here for a reasonable price $60 - 85 per. I'm sure more than one person would be very interested in such old "spare" balls.
bergerkos,
These should sell for more than the price of "HOUSE" balls. Such plain urethane usually sells for $25 - 40. Balls like the Timberwolf should sell for $40 - $85 US, in my opinion.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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quote:
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You're customer base for the balls is very limited. Who's willing to buy a ball for $70 that they can use as a spare ball? It's not vine, it doesn't get any better with age.
If any ball that does not cover 40 boards is considered a"spare" ball in your eyes, then yes. But this is so far from reality, i wouldn't even venture a guess.
A dull Timberwolf can still be used for medium to medium-hevay oil. A polished one or the pearl can still be used for medium-light to medium oil, the largest current range of house shots. That means they can be used EFFECTIVELY in 95% of the leagues AND tournaments in the US. That is hardly a spare ball.
I'm sorry bergerkos can sell some of them here for a reasonable price $60 - 85 per. I'm sure more than one person would be very interested in such old "spare" balls.
bergerkos,
These should sell for more than the price of "HOUSE" balls. Such plain urethane usually sells for $25 - 40. Balls like the Timberwolf should sell for $40 - $85 US, in my opinion.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Well! Thanks for your kind words, really warming my heart -- and that of my boss, too. He was loath to part with these balls the other day, when some guy offered him that low kinda price.
We shall post it on that Russian bowling forum to find interested ones.
I've found a very interesting forum, where they share with one another detailed instructions on how to drill correctly and how to repair balls without special equipment. And the guy sharing those recipes seems himself to have learned the stuff the same way -- through Internet.
Maybe they will appreciate the real value of my "veterans", or find somebody who will.
Can I abuse your kindness a bit further still, since you know a lot about the old stuff?
Among those old balls there are some I couldn't identify or find ANY reference: "Timber", "Comet", "Miracle deluxe", "FOCUS" -- that's pretty much all that is written on them.
Do those names tell you anything at all?
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If you go to this website, http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/, you can look up many discontinued balls. You can just put a name in the SEARCH box in the upper right hand corner of the home page, or go to a specific manufacturer.
I know AMF had a Focus. it seems there are a couple of resin and a couple of urethane ball with that name.
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=216
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=215
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=218
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=217
Timber ? I only know the Ebonite Timberwolf series.
Comet? Lane#1 had a Comet. Looks like there were two of them, a Comet and a Comet Pro.
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=700
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=701
Miracle deluxe?
I don't see any "deluxe" but there are several Miracles. Among them a Robby Miracle:
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=2218
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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quote:
You're customer base for the balls is very limited. Who's willing to buy a ball for $70 that they can use as a spare ball? It's not vine, it doesn't get any better with age.
If any ball that does not cover 40 boards is considered a"spare" ball in your eyes, then yes. But this is so far from reality, i wouldn't even venture a guess.
Timberwolf and 8 ball may have the same shapre core but the density in the Timberwolf is lower as well as having a weaker cover then the 8 ball. Not everything is as it seems.
Example is the new Bash, which as the Matrix shape core but is very straight because of the core strength
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Not sure who you are referring to but since I brought up the 8 Ball in the first place, I will reply.
Actually the 8 Ball uses the Were Wolf core, which is the Red Wolf core with the flip block. And I believe both use Mega Bite Super Tack 2 covers. The Timber took out the flip block and introduced the offset weight piece for some asymmetry in it.
And while the Bash is straighter than most pieces in Ebo's lineup, again, it's no dart.
I stand by what I say. While there are newer pieces that create more friction that the older coverstocks, you can still cover plenty of boards if you so choose with older equipment such as these.
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Timberwolf and 8 ball may have the same shapre core but the density in the Timberwolf is lower as well as having a weaker cover then the 8 ball. Not everything is as it seems.
Example is the new Bash, which as the Matrix shape core but is very straight because of the core strength
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I don't know where you bowl but our house patterns are 43ft with volume.
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I don't know where you bowl but our house patterns are 43ft with volume.
That is a rarity.
For the average rev, average ball speed bowler, most houses put out much less oil and require mild solid or a pearl at best.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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quote:
If you go to this website, http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/, you can look up many discontinued balls. You can just put a name in the SEARCH box in the upper right hand corner of the home page, or go to a specific manufacturer.
I know AMF had a Focus. it seems there are a couple of resin and a couple of urethane ball with that name.
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=216
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=215
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=218
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=217
Timber ? I only know the Ebonite Timberwolf series.
Comet? Lane#1 had a Comet. Looks like there were two of them, a Comet and a Comet Pro.
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=700
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=701
Miracle deluxe?
I don't see any "deluxe" but there are several Miracles. Among them a Robby Miracle:
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=2218
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Yeah, thanks a lot for the link, I've found them there. The COMET and the FOCUS seem to look like those I have, also FLAME and SUPER BEAST.
MIRACLE has the the word itself written in a kind of "trembling" letters, the word "deluxe" being added below.
And "Timber" has a kind of logo on it, representing palm tree branches and a hotel building...
So exciting, when you come by some old stuff, and then you meet people who know the exact value of it, its pros and cons...
Interesting, very interesting. I almost feel like keeping some of them for myself -- like a peace of history, you know, like a souvenir.
Yet, my boss would give them away now for whatever price they offer -- he's got some other business to take care of and just wants to get rid of the stock. I think I'll try to see if there are folks who are really interested, before giving them away per 40$ a piece.
Thank you for your help in this matter.