BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Ebonite => Topic started by: toomanytenpins on February 21, 2010, 09:45:08 PM

Title: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: toomanytenpins on February 21, 2010, 09:45:08 PM
I have a mission and i must have it drilled wrong so i am looking for advice. My ball is just the opposite of everything i am reading.Drilled pin under bridge mb 45 degrees which put the pin 4,1/2 inches from pap as i was told. My pap 4,5/16x1/2 up.I throw 12 to 14 mph based on lane equipment readings,and i am right handed. This ball, as it is,for me,is best on short 2nd shift shots. I was able to swing 25 to five on this type shot with no problem,with room to miss.On fresher longer shots it wont finish playing up 15. Its just not reading the pattern. I see its potential on broken down patterns,but its no first game ball and this is contrary to what i have seen and red.I am not going to sell it ,but i want to know how i should have it drilled so i might benefit from its prowess.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: snowspike1 on February 22, 2010, 06:09:10 AM
how about trying down 10 or the track area (6th board).  

sounds to me your play'n in too much or too close to the oil for the current surface. thats mho but i havent thrown that ball.

I'm thinking kelly was throwing in that area when she took Barnes out....

just a suggestion.
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: charlest on February 22, 2010, 06:26:27 AM
As near as I can tell -
This ball, with the stock surface is a medium-heavy oiler, at a minimum. You have relatively low ball speed and yet you placed the pin below the level of the bridge. PLUS you kicked the stong MB way out: 45 degrees. 45 degrees for a drill angle is good if you have very firm ball speed or you have lots of tilt. Without either you''re just killing the backend. That makes the ball try to get into an early roll with a small, very controlled backend. I strongly suspect this ball is burning up in the heads and the midlane and nothing left by the time it hits the pins. It is definitely not a 2nd shift ball without lots of gloss polish and then it should flip unmercifully hard.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/22/2010 7:46 AM
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: toomanytenpins on February 22, 2010, 07:20:07 AM
basic adjustments is not my problem. If the ball was burning up why would it work on less than a fresh shot. why would the ball read respond and react so well on a shorter pattern with less oil. I wish like i said i could show someone what i am seeing so everyone wouldnt think i was crazy. The ball losing energy might result in 10 pins or pocket 7 tens and might warrant a ball change.If you step up,in warm ups and the ball goes 60 feet playing up 7 standing 15,which is verry tight for me,and washes out,and you make a ball change move 5 boards right and run brook i dont understand burnup. If i can go in a bowling alley,stand 35 play out to 5 at the break and strike if i miss in or out on a broken down shot where does burnup come into play. I would think i wouldnt be able to play on the drier shot and carry at all.I would also think that i should be able to get to the pocket on a fresh ths 39 feet,especially playingup the track,not swinging,straight up the track and have some symbolis of miss room .If i was throwing my fast on this shot i would expect not to carry,or not to recover if i miss a board. I would and do expect to play my fast straighter to the pocket. If i had no reference i might not ask the question,if i werent seeing something that didnt seem quite right i would say ok its me. my fast is drilled pin up 6 inches to pap no surface change and i know that if i play it on a fresh ths i have to move right tender my speed and play up the track with no belly if i want to get to the pocket. I didnt know i was going to have to play the mission the exact same way. If thats the case then i guess i will sell it if its no better than a weak drilled pearl.
    I have a magic drilled pin up over ring stacked its no oiler but i didnt intend it to be.It plays the exact same way the mission does and its polished. Like i said i thought there might be something i should do that i didnt i.e drilling,to get it to where, from all accounts,.It should be.If i am wrong and the mission isnt any better than the magic then i wasted money and its for sale mybe a strong drilling on a fast with surface is what i needed.Wish i had thought of that before i forked over the cash for another high end only for certain type of bowlers bowling ball.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: tizzle on February 22, 2010, 09:24:35 AM
That should hook out the house... I don't understand how it doesn't.
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag..A Reign of Fire, 2 Invasions, and a green Avalanche.. how can I lose....

....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: charlest on February 22, 2010, 09:47:38 AM
quote:
basic adjustments is not my problem. If the ball was burning up why would it work on less than a fresh shot. why would the ball read respond and react so well on a shorter pattern with less oil.


There are any number of reasons for this.
- a house shot tends to hide differences in balls. (this can be the entire problem)
- it is a pearl and you might have gotten just enough of a control burn in the heads and midlane to carry.
- maybe your speed is not as low as you think it is,
etc

quote:

  I wish like i said i could show someone what i am seeing so everyone wouldnt think i was crazy.



No one thinks you''''re crazy. I think you''''re very lucky to be able to use the ball on conditions for which it was NOT intended without having to change the stock surface.

quote:

The ball losing energy might result in 10 pins or pocket 7 tens and might warrant a ball change.


That is a bare minimum of losing energy. If you are describing the amount of oil you are bowling on correctly, your Mission is losing more than that.

quote:

If you step up,in warm ups and the ball goes 60 feet playing up 7 standing 15,which is verry tight for me,and washes out,and you make a ball change move 5 boards right and run brook i dont understand burnup. If i can go in a bowling alley,stand 35 play out to 5 at the break and strike if i miss in or out on a broken down shot where does burnup come into play. I would think i wouldnt be able to play on the drier shot and carry at all.



Again, unless you are on a sport shot, house blended oil pattern can enable people to use anything from an Invasion to a Tropical Storm.

quote:

I would also think that i should be able to get to the pocket on a fresh ths 39 feet,especially playingup the track,not swinging,straight up the track and have some symbolis of miss room .If i was throwing my fast on this shot i would expect not to carry,or not to recover if i miss a board. I would and do expect to play my fast straighter to the pocket. If i had no reference i might not ask the question,if i werent seeing something that didnt seem quite right i would say ok its me. my fast is drilled pin up 6 inches to pap no surface change and i know that if i play it on a fresh ths i have to move right tender my speed and play up the track with no belly if i want to get to the pocket. I didnt know i was going to have to play the mission the exact same way. If thats the case then i guess i will sell it if its no better than a weak drilled pearl.



Also there is that drilling, as others have also pointed out.
That MB position will tend to mute the main feature of the Mission, its backend, Unless you have high rotation, and/or tilt.

quote:

    I have a magic drilled pin up over ring stacked its no oiler but i didnt intend it to be.It plays the exact same way the mission does and its polished. Like i said i thought there might be something i should do that i didnt i.e drilling,to get it to where, from all accounts,.It should be.If i am wrong and the mission isnt any better than the magic then i wasted money and its for sale mybe a strong drilling on a fast with surface is what i needed.Wish i had thought of that before i forked over the cash for another high end only for certain type of bowlers bowling ball.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling


If you''''re already convinced of that, in spite what I already wrote, then this reply is wasted too, if you didn''''t believe me or anyone else. Sorry, just sell it then.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/22/2010 10:49 AM
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: toomanytenpins on February 22, 2010, 09:52:10 AM
ok should the mb moved closer to the thumb,all i am asking for is possible drilliongs that can correct what i am seeing and the enability to use the ball as it was intended
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: JustABowler on February 22, 2010, 10:01:35 AM
Try using a 30* drill angle with pin at 4 inches and mb at a 70* angle.  This will allow the ball to retain axis but still flare for a decent amount of oil.
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: J_w73 on February 22, 2010, 10:29:14 AM
quote:
As near as I can tell -
This ball, with the stock surface is a medium-heavy oiler, at a minimum. You have relatively low ball speed and yet you placed the pin below the level of the bridge. PLUS you kicked the stong MB way out: 45 degrees. 45 degrees for a drill angle is good if you have very firm ball speed or you have lots of tilt. Without either you''re just killing the backend. That makes the ball try to get into an early roll with a small, very controlled backend. I strongly suspect this ball is burning up in the heads and the midlane and nothing left by the time it hits the pins. It is definitely not a 2nd shift ball without lots of gloss polish and then it should flip unmercifully hard.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/22/2010 7:46 AM


I agree with charlest on this one.. I had pretty much the same drill on my cell (pin under . 45* mb) and it did the exact thing you are talking about.. I hated the ball and I just didn't see the shine out of it that everyone else did.


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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: HAMMERDOWN103 on February 22, 2010, 10:54:24 AM
What is your rev rate??? My mom throws the ball that slow and her plastic ball hooks on a ths. If you have a fairly decent rev rate i would suggest going to 1000 or 500 and toy around with angles. Not to insult your or anything, but up 15 on a long fresh pattern is a very tight line...
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HAMMERDOWN Racing Team
103 TF/TE
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: bighook69 on February 22, 2010, 12:20:25 PM
no offense taken, mine works great.

I think yours is loosing too much energy early... try some polish... or get rid of it, tons of people want one of these
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: BT808 on February 22, 2010, 12:48:00 PM
I'm going through the same thing with my Jigsaw Corner right now... it just doesnt roll well for me on anything. I'm thinking about either plugging and drilling to go longer (I think its burning up) or just plugging the ball and drilling it for my wife.
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Brian Taylor
Terre Haute, IN
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: J_w73 on February 22, 2010, 12:57:28 PM
quote:
I'm going through the same thing with my Jigsaw Corner right now... it just doesnt roll well for me on anything. I'm thinking about either plugging and drilling to go longer (I think its burning up) or just plugging the ball and drilling it for my wife.
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Brian Taylor
Terre Haute, IN


How is your jigsaw drilled up ??
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: BT808 on February 22, 2010, 02:06:47 PM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g40/btaylorjr/Bowling%20Balls/IMG_2840Medium.jpg

It's 4.5" pin to PAP
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Brian Taylor
Terre Haute, IN
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: J_w73 on February 22, 2010, 02:18:50 PM
quote:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g40/btaylorjr/Bowling%20Balls/IMG_2840Medium.jpg

It's 4.5" pin to PAP
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Brian Taylor
Terre Haute, IN


Looks like a decent drilling for strong backend . I don't know about the x-hole though. I would have rather had it down your VAL a bit..mght be just a cover issue.. like with the Mission in the OP I would try a cover adjustment first.
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: Slick300 on February 22, 2010, 07:36:58 PM
With that low of  ball speed you need a larger first angle to retain energy when you try to play the track early it burns up, when you play inside late you are in the puddle of a typical ths and then if you get it right to the friction it burns up enough to stay in the pocket and the pin down allows it to rev earlir in the oil. if you shine it it may work better in the friction early. Are you bowling on wood or synthetics
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Ray Lathrop
Better Bowling Concepts
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: stormbowling300 on February 22, 2010, 08:48:47 PM
Make sure it dont have to much finger weight
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: stormed1 on February 22, 2010, 09:50:44 PM
I am going to be bowling with him (toomanytenpins) tomorrow to see what is happening with the ball as far as reaction goes. I plan on bringing a couple balls of mine to get a read on the conditions.
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Arsenal: Mega Friction,Break Point x 2, Break,Clutch,Clutch Pearl,Maniac,Awakening,Lunatic,Heist Pearl,SX-1,Link,Hype urethane,Global Globe, 14# golden globe

http://s485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/stormed1/My%20Arsenal/
Bowlingboards.com
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: Zack Pelton300 on February 23, 2010, 10:52:33 AM
I've drilled two of them so far. I have not found these ball to be first shift balls either. They are not bad balls by any means. Infact I would say its the best ball since the gamebreaker. However I love my gamebreakers much better.
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Zack Pelton
Olathe, Kansas
Ebonite Amateur Staff
Ebonite Bowl 2 Win
www.ebonite.com
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: n00dlejester on February 23, 2010, 11:02:53 PM
I don't know my drill angles or much, but I drilled my Mission 4x4, with a 1 inch pin buffer.  The ball was very squirty on fresh THS, but it owned on a second shift.  I find this ball to be a bit sensitive to carrydown, but very forgiving when the lane opens up.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: on February 23, 2010, 11:04:27 PM
toomanytenpins,

During a recent seminar I attended my Mo Pinel in PA, this exact topic was discussed.  Simply put, having the pin below the fingers will provide an inconsistent ball reaction and will weaken the overall ball reaction.  It was suggested and proven that if you would like to have a more consistent ball reaction, you should keep the pin in a higher position, like besides the fingers or above them as you are looking at the ball.  I recently drilled a Seige for a local bowler and I put the pin under the finger and he did not like it.  I then drilled a C system 3.5 with the pin in a higher position and he can't keep his hand out of the ball and has already won money with it.  I know that every customer is different and my personal findings don't prove anything, but it will be a long time before I drill a ball with the pin under the fingers again, FOR SURE.
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: toomanytenpins on February 24, 2010, 10:41:12 AM
finally someone else not seeing the beast everyone is ranting about
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 24, 2010, 10:55:30 AM
I didn't realize the mission was a beast.

From what I saw on TV in Kelly Kulick's and Michael Fagan's hands it looked like a strong midlane ball with a very controllable backend.  Perfect for a backend flying, touchy tour pattern!

Your dirlling takes out a lot more of the backend.  Making it a real smooth backend performer.  Drilled straighter up would probably have worked better.
As stated above with a smooth backend by design and the backend drilled out of it you better play straighter and or NOT play so far inside or you will end up indeed being....

"Tommytoomanytenpins".


Regards,

Luckylefty
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: Joe Jr on February 24, 2010, 12:09:52 PM
Oh really, toomanytenpins drilled another strong high end ball and can't get it to hook? Theirs a shocker...
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My Game (http://"http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/RevLefty/Vids/?action=view¤t=IMG_0291.flv")
Just another hack with too much equipment.
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: SleepOnIce on February 24, 2010, 12:23:15 PM
http://www.ballreviews.com/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ManufacterID=15&BallID=861&ReviewID=29131

Sounds eerily similar.
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BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: nospareball on February 24, 2010, 06:06:28 PM
quote:
I have a mission and i must have it drilled wrong so i am looking for advice. My ball is just the opposite of everything i am reading.Drilled pin under bridge mb 45 degrees which put the pin 4,1/2 inches from pap as i was told. My pap 4,5/16x1/2 up.I throw 12 to 14 mph based on lane equipment readings,and i am right handed. This ball, as it is,for me,is best on short 2nd shift shots. I was able to swing 25 to five on this type shot with no problem,with room to miss.On fresher longer shots it wont finish playing up 15. Its just not reading the pattern. I see its potential on broken down patterns,but its no first game ball and this is contrary to what i have seen and red.I am not going to sell it ,but i want to know how i should have it drilled so i might benefit from its prowess.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling


Sounds like you have problems with a lot of high end balls from what I've read of you lately.

First off, you say you have to play up 15 on a fresh shot, and can swing it from 5th arrow out to 5 on a broken down shot.  Are you sure that up 15 is where you had to play?  That's pretty extreme, you really shouldn't need to play there on a house shot, with any ball.

Second, that drilling isn't anything crazy, and while you would see more backend with pin up and a larger angle, I don't see it as being the main problem.

Lastly, if you have trouble with strong asymmetrical balls like the Mutant, Cell, and Mission, stop buying those kind of balls!  With your speed you don't need the strong stuff to get movement.  If your Fast works great with a long pin-pap distance, then stick with the weaker cover/core combos.
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-Clint
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: toomanytenpins on February 25, 2010, 06:05:05 AM
someone is paying too much attention to me,cell post.I think its not so much the balls as it is how i am having them drilled,i.e,cell.I had the cell redrilled and it as it wasnt a beast it was much better with the pin up 4in pin to pap and the mb probably was about 60 degrees val tp mb. Guess i should have learned then huh,never again. 30x4x20 ,hows that sound
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: olie2832 on February 26, 2010, 07:56:05 PM
sorry to high jack but i am also having a bit of trouble with my mission

The problem right now for me is a lot of 10 pins no matter what i do.  I tried many hand positions and speeds but i don't get the amazing carry people are talking about.  I have no problem with the ball hooking as i have a lot of room for error to hit the pocket, but always come up short with a ten pin.  My rev rate is about 275-325 about 14-15 mph. Drilled pin above and to the right a little. I think its 4x4x2. Should i give it a couple more games to break in (have like 6 games) or change the surface. Thanks
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: chatnboy on February 28, 2010, 09:14:14 PM
this is where your brick and mortar QUALITY pro shop guy comes into play!!!my pro shop guy would watch me throw my new ball....and then make adjustments as needed!!!if your driller is a compentent one...he should be able to watch you throw the ball and make suggestions.hope you find out whats up with that ball because everyone i see that has one is ripping the rack!!!
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Go hard or go home!!!!!Bowl your best...ALWAYS!!!
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: toomanytenpins on March 01, 2010, 06:04:16 AM
stormed 1 changed the surface of my mission. I think he said he went 500 2000.Any way i am sure he will respond ,but it made a very drastic difference in the ball. Now the ball reads and finishes as i hoped it would. It responds well to more or less tilt and the 10 pins i was leaving before seem to be gone. When the lanes are fresher i have to get more crank on it,as the lanes break down just had to change my release. I am liking it more with the surface change,at least now i can get a read so i know what i can or cant do with it.thanks B.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Title: Re: mission,no offense intended to anyone
Post by: olie2832 on March 01, 2010, 03:09:14 PM
i actually did buy from a brick and mortar shop pro shop.  Where i live i there are only two proshops that are affordable where as the others will cost $250 for a ball thats not even the newest ( Mission would probably not be at the other shops for a month and cost $300).  The one i go to has the best deals and gives me the best feel in my drilling.  He has came out and watched me a bit but hasnt said much but it rolls better then your previous ball.  He hasnt really made a suggestion on my ball but my form which hasnt helped that much as i already left 2 7-10s. Any help would be great. Thanks