Post by: Motogp69 on February 27, 2010, 12:26:24 AM
Well, the Mission has a 100 games on it, and it's lost about an arrows worth of hook and I threw it on the haus system for a resurface to get it back to box. Like I said, I get to throw it again on Sunday, so I'll let you know how Ebonite has addressed the longevity issue of their covers after I get to throw it again.
Although admittedly this ball is already a huge improvement as my last few Hopkinsville balls have only lasted 20-30 games even with anal retentive cleaning.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn''t meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Post by: Motogp69 on February 27, 2010, 09:19:08 AM
I also usually touch of the surface of the ball before I bowl. So say I'm using my 2000 Hy-Road so I always go over lightly by hand with a 2000 Abralon pad before I bowl.
None of my other balls have died. The only balls I've ever had break or quit on me are: Columbia Cuda/C cracked around the equator, Zone Black Ice the core cracked, Gamebreaker quit working after 20 games, Black Widow Pearl quit working after 30 games.
I've owned hundred of balls, and to only have 4 balls go bad is a testament to the quality control in our industry.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Post by: jkiser01 on February 27, 2010, 09:31:10 AM
I clean all my stuff after each use and have never had an issue with lost ball reaction..
quote:
Cleaning them too much, is just as bad as not cleaning them at all.
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Roto Grip.. King of Them All!!
Storm ain''t so bad either!! LOL
I also like AMF/900 Global..
Edited on 2/27/2010 10:31 AM
Post by: tizzle on February 27, 2010, 10:22:34 AM
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag..A radiated C-System 3.5,an Invasion, a bright red Mission, a Motiv Qz1 Fire ball,and a green Avalanche.. how can I lose....
....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
Post by: tizzle on February 27, 2010, 03:31:48 PM
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag..A radiated C-System 3.5,an Invasion, a bright red Mission, a Motiv Qz1 Fire ball,and a green Avalanche.. how can I lose....
....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
Post by: tizzle on February 27, 2010, 03:36:29 PM
I guess anythings possible though!
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag..A radiated C-System 3.5,an Invasion, a bright red Mission, a Motiv Qz1 Fire ball,and a green Avalanche.. how can I lose....
....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
Edited on 2/27/2010 4:37 PM
Post by: tizzle on February 27, 2010, 03:57:41 PM
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag..A radiated C-System 3.5,an Invasion, a bright red Mission, a Motiv Qz1 Fire ball,and a green Avalanche.. how can I lose....
....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
Post by: ralphiejantz on February 27, 2010, 05:05:32 PM
a hot bath every 10 games seriously can not be good for the ball
I have stuff that is about 1 year old now and probably close to 200 games on them, that I have never given a hot water bath or revivor oven
I do clean my stuff with regular cleaner after each use and use clean and dull about 1 time a month on my stuff,
I never put stuff away even if after only a few shots without giving it quick spray and wipe
and I have not lost any reaction with any of the balls that I have
on my polished stuff once the polish starts to go away I just hit it with some clean and dull on the spinner, and add the polish back to it
I think some of you guys that are baking and hot water bathing your stuff every 10 games or so are over doing it a little
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on February 27, 2010, 05:20:59 PM
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: coco3085 on February 27, 2010, 07:37:34 PM
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201 league average 2 leagues
break point pearl
Mutant cell
Magic action
Cherry vibe
14lb agent-first ball I ever owned
skull and cross bones
rogue cell- not my thing
Post by: tizzle on February 27, 2010, 07:55:23 PM
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag..A radiated C-System 3.5,an Invasion, a bright red Mission, a Motiv Qz1 Fire ball,and a green Avalanche.. how can I lose....
....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
Post by: coco3085 on February 27, 2010, 08:05:57 PM
--------------------
201 league average 2 leagues
break point pearl
Mutant cell
Magic action
Cherry vibe
14lb agent-first ball I ever owned
skull and cross bones
rogue cell- not my thing
Post by: Track_Fanatic on February 27, 2010, 11:50:58 PM
Post by: Motogp69 on February 28, 2010, 07:18:01 AM
Threw it against a test ball the reaction was pretty much exactly the same. Only a board less of hook overall, but that could be more due to where I was bowling than the ball itself.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Post by: Nicanor on February 28, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Strider on February 28, 2010, 08:58:24 AM
quote:
Ebonite has tested the Mission with the hot water bath. DO NOT use any cleaner in it. Only use HOT WATER. They indicated this in a seminar. Let it soak for a 1/2 hour, then let it dry. Do it again for another half hour, then let it dry. The 3rd time you shouldn't see that much reaction in the water depending on how oil soaked the ball was. they DO NOT recommend baking ANY ball. What does hot temperature do? Makes things BRITTLE!!
If they indicate a special cleaning procedure, it should have been included in the box with every ball purchased. Ebonite makes bowling ball cleaners - how would the average person know not to use them on the Mission???
Also, the rest of your post doesn't make sense. Don't use heat/baking because it makes the cover brittle, but use hot water? Hot is hot, right? Your hottest tap water (or dishwater without the drying cycle) is about the same temperature that a Rejuvinator type machine uses. Unless the heat (water or air) gets to a certain point, it won't do any good.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Track_Fanatic on February 28, 2010, 11:07:20 AM
Post by: mrteach3 on February 28, 2010, 11:43:02 AM
What was interesting to me is that in one breath the presenter said after using a hot water bath, they saw plasticizers coming to the surface of the water, and then the next breath said they don't recommend baking balls because they remove plasticizers from the ball. Confused??? Me too. I believe I have a pretty simple answer. Ebonite does not make a product such as a Revivor or Rejuvenator, but has that Hook Again system. They wouldn't recommend something such as that for money reasons. They do recommend hot water since everyone has hot water.
Just my opinion.
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Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!
Post by: Strider on February 28, 2010, 12:08:50 PM
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Motogp69 on March 09, 2010, 01:11:59 PM
I was curious if after the first hot water bath the balls soak up oil quicker the next time?
After doing the hot water bath the Mission was revived, but now not even 30 games later the ball is hooking less than a much older Gamebreaker. I'm going to do another hot water bath and I'll let you know what happens.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Post by: stopncrank on March 09, 2010, 01:26:01 PM
quote:
Update:
I was curious if after the first hot water bath the balls soak up oil quicker the next time?
After doing the hot water bath the Mission was revived, but now not even 30 games later the ball is hooking less than a much older Gamebreaker. I'm going to do another hot water bath and I'll let you know what happens.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Is this just an Ebonite thing, or are the other brands such as Track and Columbia 300 and Hammer having these issues as well. Reason i ask is i recently drilled some Columbia 300 stuff. Sorry for the hijack btw....
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Post by: Motogp69 on March 09, 2010, 04:13:14 PM
It's just disconcerting, because the Hopkinsville balls that I've had just seem to do it quicker. I've had 2 gamebreakers, one died after 20-30 games and never hooked again, and the other is still going strong. I had a Hammer Cherry Vibe and Black Widow Pearl that lasted about a week.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Post by: Adrenaline on March 09, 2010, 07:12:54 PM
As for the discussion about plasticizers... It's true that heat does bring them to the surface, but I have yet to read about them coming all the way OUT of the ball. Meaning, even though the heat brings them to the surface, they remain ON the surface, they don't fall off the ball, or magically disappear. As the ball dries, cools, and is used, the natural absorption of the balls coverstock, actually sucks the plasticizers from the surface, back into the coverstock. Now, I can't verify this, or prove it, but it seems the most logical to me, and also follows along with what I described in the first paragraph about 'break in period' or 'wearing in the track'. Maybe what's actually happening is the ball is simply absorbing the plasticizers back into the cover stock, and once it does, the reaction comes back?
Take it for what you will, This is a question more suited for chemists who have bowling ball coverstock focuses.
Post by: TheFreeAgent on March 09, 2010, 07:44:27 PM
quote:quote:
Update:
I was curious if after the first hot water bath the balls soak up oil quicker the next time?
After doing the hot water bath the Mission was revived, but now not even 30 games later the ball is hooking less than a much older Gamebreaker. I'm going to do another hot water bath and I'll let you know what happens.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Is this just an Ebonite thing, or are the other brands such as Track and Columbia 300 and Hammer having these issues as well. Reason i ask is i recently drilled some Columbia 300 stuff. Sorry for the hijack btw....
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA)
Post by: n00dlejester on March 10, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
In my experiences: bowling balls that react best for me are after the first 10 games of first buying/resurfacing a ball. Once the ball has some lane shine in it, and doesn't soak up ALL the oil it encounters, the reaction is consistent and awesome. Once that reaction goes away and the ball seems to be failing in the back part of the lane is when I will bake a bowling ball. I used to do the hot water bath, but I find the rejuvenator ovens are much more consistent and thorough. I have a Storm Gravity Shift with about 12 billion games on it (rough estimate of course), and the thing is STILL going strong and giving me stupid good carry. Ball maintenance is so key to consistent reactions.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
Post by: charlest on March 10, 2010, 07:54:34 PM
quote:
I have a bit of an aside to this thread: what exactly is a plasticizer? And what effect(s) does it have on a bowling ball?
In my experiences: bowling balls that react best for me are after the first 10 games of first buying/resurfacing a ball. Once the ball has some lane shine in it, and doesn't soak up ALL the oil it encounters, the reaction is consistent and awesome. Once that reaction goes away and the ball seems to be failing in the back part of the lane is when I will bake a bowling ball. I used to do the hot water bath, but I find the rejuvenator ovens are much more consistent and thorough. I have a Storm Gravity Shift with about 12 billion games on it (rough estimate of course), and the thing is STILL going strong and giving me stupid good carry. Ball maintenance is so key to consistent reactions.
--------------------
Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
From all reports I've read here, plasticizer is what turns urethane into resin. Heat (over 150 degrees Fahren) can cause it to come out of the ball like lane oil. Ebonite says plasticizer coming to the surface is what causes their resin balls to lose performance.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: EboStaff10 on March 11, 2010, 01:06:43 PM
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BOWL TO WIN
JenXXX Pro Shop
Post by: J_w73 on March 11, 2010, 01:45:27 PM
quote:
I was at a seminar for this ball as well. They did state that they do not recommend baking balls. However, they said that they do recommend a hot water bath.
What was interesting to me is that in one breath the presenter said after using a hot water bath, they saw plasticizers coming to the surface of the water, and then the next breath said they don't recommend baking balls because they remove plasticizers from the ball. Confused??? Me too. I believe I have a pretty simple answer. Ebonite does not make a product such as a Revivor or Rejuvenator, but has that Hook Again system. They wouldn't recommend something such as that for money reasons. They do recommend hot water since everyone has hot water.
Just my opinion.
--------------------
Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!
Funny thing is that their Hook Again system's basis is that it removes the plasticizer that has come to the surface of the ball and causing the diminished hook..
I would love for any ball company to give me a firm statement about the plasticizers in the ball after manufacturing. Seems none of them know whether or not they want it in or out of the ball.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: J_w73 on March 11, 2010, 02:00:41 PM
quote:quote:
I have a bit of an aside to this thread: what exactly is a plasticizer? And what effect(s) does it have on a bowling ball?
In my experiences: bowling balls that react best for me are after the first 10 games of first buying/resurfacing a ball. Once the ball has some lane shine in it, and doesn''''t soak up ALL the oil it encounters, the reaction is consistent and awesome. Once that reaction goes away and the ball seems to be failing in the back part of the lane is when I will bake a bowling ball. I used to do the hot water bath, but I find the rejuvenator ovens are much more consistent and thorough. I have a Storm Gravity Shift with about 12 billion games on it (rough estimate of course), and the thing is STILL going strong and giving me stupid good carry. Ball maintenance is so key to consistent reactions.
--------------------
Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren''''t a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
From all reports I''''ve read here, plasticizer is what turns urethane into resin. Heat (over 150 degrees Fahren) can cause it to come out of the ball like lane oil. Ebonite says plasticizer coming to the surface is what causes their resin balls to lose performance.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Plasticizer is what creates the porosity and texture in the coverstock. It basically makes it looks like a sponge and act like one. When the cover is created, the plasticizer won''''t actually mix with whatever the liquid coverstock is made out of.. kind of like oil and water.. then when the coverstock cures solid, wherever the plasticizer is there are a bunch of little voids created.
I have asked multiple ball companies whether this left over plasticizer is needed in the ball and have never really got a straight forward answer from any of them.. best I have figured out is this..
Plasticizer coming to the surface will decrease the friction and inhibit the hook-ability of the ball.
But plasticizer also keeps the ball from becoming brittle and keeps the coverstock supple. The plasticizer may also help the cells in the coverstock hold their structure. This could relate to the brittleness of the ball where the cells crack and crumble and collapse upon themselves.
When I have the time (and money to potentially ruin a ball) I am going to take a new ball and completely bake, bath , or whatever all of the plasticizer out of it to see if it makes a difference in reaction and longevity..
I would like to mention that Plasticizer is not some magic liquid that is in the coverstock that itself creates friction and "MAKES" the ball hook....
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Edited on 3/11/2010 3:04 PM
Edited on 3/12/2010 1:40 PM
Post by: dna300x on March 12, 2010, 03:57:53 PM
First and foremost, I would like to say that I am an advocate of having a maintenance schedule. All of the manufacturers out there are more than willing to disclose information on how to care for their equipment.
I have had my Missions for a little while now and I can honestly say that I've put about 200-300 games on each Mission between league, practice, and my college tournaments.
The Mission is a ball that never quits. I do not see this ball losing any performance. I've given my Mission two hot water baths and each time the ball has only been revived. No damage was incurred to the coverstock and it read the lane just as good as it did out of the box.
I simply clean my Mission with Powerhouse Energizer Cleaner every time I bowl and I do a hot water bath at the end of every month.
For those unfamiliar with this procedure, I would recommend obtaining a 5 gallon paint bucket. Get the hottest tap water you have available and then let the ball soak for approximately 20 minutes. There will be contaminants and oil rising to the surface. After one cycle, dump the bucket and re-fill. It takes between 2 and 3 cycles to get the ball clean. This may sound time consuming, but it really isn't and is a simple method that any consumer can utilize.
Ball death is not an issue with this ball, ask any other fellow staffer. Additionally Kelly Kulick used her Mission every game except for 2 during the Tournament of Champions in Las Vegas. It certainly didn't look like her ball was dead on the show, but between the practice and format she easily had at least 100 games on that ball.
Have no fear about ball death. Ebonite has taken this matter into consideration and corrective measures were done.
This isn't puffery, what you get is what you see. A quality ball that lasts a long time, and has unmatched versatility and control.
To quote Jerry Lewis "Goodness gracious great balls of fire"
If anyone has questions please don't hesitate to contact me.
--------------------
Darren Andretta
Long Island, New York
Ebonite Amateur Staff Member
Bowl 2 Win
www.ebonite.com
Post by: chatnboy on March 15, 2010, 02:06:35 PM
+ games on all of them!!!!
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Go hard or go home!!!!!Bowl your best...ALWAYS!!!
Post by: JEE on March 16, 2010, 01:02:16 PM
Post by: J_w73 on March 16, 2010, 01:11:09 PM
quote:
When giving a hot water bath to a ball, what do you do with the finger and thumb holes.
Nothing.. never had a problem.. when done just get a towel in the holes to dab out the water or leave the ball holes down for a bit to drain and dry..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: taige690 on March 16, 2010, 08:46:47 PM