Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on August 16, 2003, 04:20:45 AM
Post by: Rev-less on August 17, 2003, 09:45:33 AM
I had both balls sanded down to 400 grit and the inferno shined up afterwards before putting them one at a time into the hook again chamber. When both were done 2 days later I proceeded to test them at a local bowling center whose lanes were freshly oiled.
The Apex showed a very noticable increase in backend hook AND pin-carry...very much like when I first used it. I was able to play a swing shot with the ball again! The Inferno's pin-carry was also restored to its original ass-kicking level *BUT* its overall reaction remained the same as before the treatment i.e. it still 'moved' like a dead ball. This has puzzled me somewhat...but its something I can accept for now. Possible answers:
- Hook again only works on Ebonite equipment (Booooo!!)
- Balls undergoing the treatment should be left in a sanded condition (instructions on ball surface prep. was not stated)
- Hook again does not work very well specifically on Activator Coverstocks, which I think has a different chemical composition than other reactives.
- Humidity factors? (I'm staying in a tropical region where its hot and humid as hell)
I've sent a PM to Mr. Hickland 3 days ago..but he has yet to reply.Anyone care to perhaps help me out/explain some things here?
Post by: ambi1 on August 17, 2003, 12:04:37 PM
Your comment re the tropics is interesting. As I am also in a tropical country.
thanks in advance.
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Edited on 8/17/2003 12:14 PM
Post by: Rev-less on August 17, 2003, 12:26:00 PM
I forgot to add that this substance didn't appear to have changed in any way after the 24 hours it was placed inside the chamber...it was still the same brownish dry stuff...which gives me the feeling that it can be used repeatedly (although the instructions stated otherwise). I shall attempt to test this at a later date.
Post by: ambi1 on August 17, 2003, 11:16:16 PM
quote:
ambi1, I purchased the 2.5 gallon version of the hook again 'substance', which I suppose contains the same stuff as the bottled version. I say 'substance' because its not a liquid, but a brownish powder-like substance whose color and texture resembles that of sawdust.
I forgot to add that this substance didn't appear to have changed in any way after the 24 hours it was placed inside the chamber...it was still the same brownish dry stuff...which gives me the feeling that it can be used repeatedly (although the instructions stated otherwise). I shall attempt to test this at a later date.
Good luck with the testing. Although if my background in chem is to be believed, I would not re-use it. It will probably still works but not as well as new. If i understand the way it works, correctly, it is supposed to absorb the 'plasticizer' that has migrated to the track area. This plasticizer migration is common in a lot of things, ex. ever seen the crazing on old plastic eyeglass frames? Thats plasticizer leaving the frame.
Since it will have absorb plasticizer after the 1st treatment, using it again might not yield the same results. But it you have dead balls getting them to perform even just 50% more is not a bad thing. So again good luck.
regards
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Edited on 8/17/2003 11:26 PM
Post by: chun914 on August 18, 2003, 12:06:53 AM
hook again for ebonite ONLY..! 
Post by: ambi1 on August 18, 2003, 01:49:00 AM
quote:
Chun, could you elaborate more?
thanks
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on August 18, 2003, 09:45:14 AM
Post by: Bjaardker on August 19, 2003, 01:24:52 AM
Anyone willing to bet on the results?
Post by: The great one on August 19, 2003, 02:07:44 AM
Post by: jensm on August 19, 2003, 03:04:20 AM
Can you elaborate a bit on how you have applied the Optisorb? How have you packed the ball in it? How long?
Regards,
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jensm
Post by: ambi1 on August 19, 2003, 01:28:54 PM
could you post the procedure and results?
regards
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: Rev-less on August 19, 2003, 10:35:55 PM
When I re-used the hook again compound to treat another dead ball (an Ebonite Matrix Trimax), the results were, as ambi1 predicted, not as good...although the hook for the Matrix was restored a little. I guess it really isn't wise to re-use the stuff after all.
Sir-Bowl-A-Lot, I think the main purpose of the product is to extract the plasticizer from the dead ball, in addition to removing oil and dirt...at least thats what the product brochure says. Honestly I have no idea how a dry substance like that could extract anything from a ball and still look the same 24 hours later, but it works and its effects appear to be lasting, so I'm happy
Just another observation: I noticed that all the balls I treated had very little oil rings on them when I threw them on fresh lanes. I had an untreated and 1-week old Fuze Detonator showing more oil rings than the treated inferno.
Bjaardker: That product you mentioned looks suspiciously similar to the hook-again compound...I just might order some of that and field test it.
Post by: Bjaardker on August 20, 2003, 12:01:53 AM
I'm sure an MSDS might give us a little more insight into what we're dealing with.
Post by: ambi1 on August 20, 2003, 11:43:47 AM
quote:
Ok folks, after more extensive testing and recommendations from Mr. Hickland, I'm convinced that the Hook Again product DOES work...to a certain degree.
When I re-used the hook again compound to treat another dead ball (an Ebonite Matrix Trimax), the results were, as ambi1 predicted, not as good...although the hook for the Matrix was restored a little. I guess it really isn't wise to re-use the stuff after all.
Sir-Bowl-A-Lot, I think the main purpose of the product is to extract the plasticizer from the dead ball, in addition to removing oil and dirt...at least thats what the product brochure says. Honestly I have no idea how a dry substance like that could extract anything from a ball and still look the same 24 hours later, but it works and its effects appear to be lasting, so I'm happy
Just another observation: I noticed that all the balls I treated had very little oil rings on them when I threw them on fresh lanes. I had an untreated and 1-week old Fuze Detonator showing more oil rings than the treated inferno.
Bjaardker: That product you mentioned looks suspiciously similar to the hook-again compound...I just might order some of that and field test it.
Rev-less: a few more inquiries if you don't mind. most people are probably asking the same thing:
1) would you say it works with other brands, if so,does it work to the same degree as on ebonite balls.
2) would you agree with the company's claim of restoration of performance up to 99% (personally, any dead ball I can bring back to +- 80% is a plus already).
Thanks in advance
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: Rev-less on August 21, 2003, 12:38:12 AM
quote:
Rev-less: a few more inquiries if you don't mind. most people are probably asking the same thing:
1) would you say it works with other brands, if so,does it work to the same degree as on ebonite balls.
2) would you agree with the company's claim of restoration of performance up to 99% (personally, any dead ball I can bring back to +- 80% is a plus already).
DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
1. With the limited testing I have done so far on non-ebonite balls (Just my inferno actually), I'd say it only works to a *certain degree*. Specifically, the product does restore the ball's hit and pin-carry, but not the hook. Maybe it should be called 'hit again' instead
But it is important to note that I have put my inferno through several 'hotwater-with-dawn' sessions as well as one session in the oven before, so this might have in a way permanently damaged the coverstock to a state that hook again can never repair. I intend to keep my new Monster Bruiser free of any of such heat treatments, and then put it through hook-again once I've notice that it has died. The result from such a test should confirm once and for all if the product does restore hook to a non-ebonite ball.I don't intend to try it on the inferno again or on any of my old non-ebonite balls because of various reasons (the stuff is too expensive to waste..and my old balls have different spans).
2. I think its hard to really judge the percentage of ball reaction restored, partly because I can barely remember how the balls behaved when they was new (bear in mind the Apex Intensity and Trimax are very old balls)...but by estimates, hook again really does bring back the hook and hit...definitely at least 80%. The thing now is to see if these balls can stay this way for more than 30 games.
And for those of you guys (like me) who are staying at some place far away from the USA, I would suggest trying to get your proshop operator to bring in the stuff because its *(#(@ expensive to buy it yourself. The shipping prices alone almost killed me.
Edited on 8/21/2003 0:51 AM
Post by: ambi1 on August 25, 2003, 02:41:34 AM
May I ask what part of the world you're in?
I'm in the Philippines and at my computation, the hook again system is still
reasonable. If the ball goes back to about 80% -90%, thats good enough for me.
thanks again
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: Bjaardker on August 25, 2003, 09:01:46 AM
Post by: X-Lnmn on August 26, 2003, 01:46:05 PM
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"When in doubt, always blame the Laneman"
Well..thats like your opinion man.......
Post by: Bjaardker on August 26, 2003, 02:26:04 PM
quote:
It looks like mulch/Saw Dust w/ little plastic beads. I mean there are twigs in there hehehe...beats me..
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"When in doubt, always blame the Laneman"
Well..thats like your opinion man.......
So it probably IS a diatomaceous earth or or other organic substance.
And the little "plastic beads" are a silica anti-dessicant, you know, that stuff you find inside of the little packets in shoes that says "do not eat".
I collect those packets to use in my ski boots suck the sweat out on long ski trips.
All they do is keep the rest of the compound extra dry in order to suck the oil out. I'm sure that the suck the oil in the ball out & the plasticizer comes out along with the oil as a solution.
Now I'm really tempted to buy the hook again system, try my own compound of optisorb & any old anti-dessicant. Maybe sell it at about 3/4 the price of ebonite's system
.
Post by: da Shiv on August 26, 2003, 02:39:19 PM
quote:
And the little "plastic beads" are a silica anti-dessicant, you know, that stuff you find inside of the
little packets in shoes that says "do not eat".
I think that anyone who is tempted to eat little packets that come out of their shoes should go ahead and eat them.
Shiv
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Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top
Edited on 8/26/2003 2:52 PM
Post by: jensm on August 27, 2003, 06:28:11 AM
Regards,
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jensm
Post by: Typhoon on August 27, 2003, 07:54:34 AM
Post by: Bjaardker on August 27, 2003, 08:58:05 AM
quote:
I tried Optisorb on my half-dead Track Heat Pearl 2 this weekend (48 hours) - without any substantial improvement. I am going to try the Hook Again treatment as soon as the pro-shop starts offering it.
When you say you tried optisorb, did you use the same sort of mold that the hook again system uses?
Also, since that person said there are litte plastic pellets in it, I think you would have to decrease the wetness by using an antidessicant for it to really work as well as the hook again system.
Also, maybe mixing it with some more fiberous particles ultra dry mulchy stuff would help the mixture "adhere" to the ball better.
Post by: Aloarjr810 on August 29, 2003, 03:14:52 PM
Post by: jensm on August 31, 2003, 07:41:32 AM
I put the bowling ball and the Optisorb in a plastic bag which I tied tightly. I then rotated the package so that the Optisorb was distributed rather evenly around the ball. Then I let it rest for 48 hours.
I had not understood that the Hook Again granulate might be drier. I still have the Optisorb in the same plastic bag. Perhaps the Optisorb now has dried enough to have an effect? if not, would shredded paper be a good antidessicant to add?
Regards,
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jensm
Post by: X-Lnmn on September 01, 2003, 02:38:37 AM
X-Lnmn
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"When in doubt, always blame the Laneman"
Well..thats like your opinion man.......
Post by: TTforshort on September 01, 2003, 10:57:35 PM
I just happen to have a 40# box of diatomaceous earth in my barn. It is
used to top a grain bin to prevent critters (weevil) from entering the grain.
My hired man covered it up with hay. I will try to dig down and find it. The
box is big enough to put a ball down in it.
Might work and the stuff is a whole lot cheaper than the Hook Again product.
TT
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If you had everything
......where would you put it?
Post by: ambi1 on September 03, 2003, 12:02:47 AM
quote:
I have now put 5 balls through the Hook Again system. 2 out of the 5 were preped by sanding the balls at 400 4-way. Then into the chamber. When they came out I dry wiped them and took them up from 400 to 500-1000 with the abralon pads. Both balls had minimal improvement but there was a noticealbe difference only on the back and in "hitting" power. I dunno...go figure. Does it work? I dunno yet. From the 5 balls i have done I would lean towards maybe. Interesting article in one of the bowling mag's about "why balls die". It seems that ebonite had the hook again system already in production but did not mention it. Other companies had there own reasons but the end result was that the cover still sucks oil. End result.
X-Lnmn
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"When in doubt, always blame the Laneman"
Well..thats like your opinion man.......
Could you give further details, what brand balls, the 3 other balls, what were the results...
thanks.
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: CouCh O MaTiC on September 28, 2003, 11:17:16 PM
After placing the ball in the chamber. I poured the saw dust like substance into the chamber. I definitely recommend using the product in a REALLY ventillated area and using a face mask. I didn't finish the entire container so after the 24 hours was up, I poured the excess saw dust into the bottom of the container and placed the X-Factor on with the track against the substance. We tested it the next day.
My brother started playing straight on our typical house pattern. Throwing the ball where he would usually play when the lanes are dry. All of a sudden all of his shots turned the corner hard like it did before. He kept moving left and started swinging the ball out. The carry was unbelievable and the move was fantastic. Not bad for a ball with 700 games on it.
I highly recommend the Hook Again system. From what I have heard, the product only work with Ebonite balls. Apparently this isn't true. It has restored a fairly beat up Storm ball back to life.
Post by: laufaye on September 30, 2003, 07:16:45 PM
Any suggestions would help, I will post my reviews after its done.
Post by: O on October 01, 2003, 10:05:15 AM
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Dominic A. Pelc
Post by: Chuck Radick on October 04, 2003, 06:38:01 PM
I'm sold on the product and believe Ebonite has done us a real service putting it out.
Post by: HamPster on October 04, 2003, 06:55:45 PM
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Cocky? I'm not cocky. I'm the proud owner of a 280-742 set with a White Dot. So, who wants to touch me? . . . . . . . I SAID WHO WANTS TO F*#%!&G TOUCH ME?!?!
Man! I'm like the white Larry Bird!