Post by: pin-smasher on January 17, 2011, 11:29:54 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 17, 2011, 07:54:53 PM
SMART MOVE .. keeps everybody happy and they sell balls!
Post by: sunsetlefty on January 17, 2011, 08:45:03 PM
Joe,
I would advise against taking advantage of the Ebonite Rebate.
By doing so, you will get back $30.00. This not only makes up the $10.00 that Ebonite RAPED you on, but also puts you in the position of RAPING them back for twice that amount. This could possibly make up for 3 total internet sales that you were RAPED on.
Please use your head and stick to your guns........
Owner of X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
www.xactreaction.com
Ebonite International Gold Pro Shop
Rotogrip Star Pro Shop
Storm VIP Pro Shop
PBA Member
Edited by sunsetlefty on 1/17/2011 at 9:48 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 18, 2011, 08:27:41 AM
Thanks for your help .. I'm looking at this REBATE (if it's true) as Ebonites attempt to level out their approach to taking an option away from the Bowler. They satisfied the B/M shops when taking certain On-line dealers out and now they are satisfying the Bowler by giving back their discount .. right now it's only the one release but I bet they will extend this for other new releases .. not all their balls are going to be MISSIONS!
I'm sorry if I upset you with the term RAPE .. it happen in another topic .. think they were talking about the Ebonite emblem .. guess it sticks in your mind .. can't help that!
I do like this rebate approach .. it certainly would be attractive to me if I was interested in their new release!
Get Motivated .. get Motiv
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: jls on January 18, 2011, 01:11:35 PM
MY FRIEND JOE...
Storm is joining Ebonite with price controls as of 2-1-11....
They must have realized that they also need to protect their products or end up being the "Northwestern Golf Co. of the bowling industry...
Smart Move Storm...
Wake up Brunswick...
BB.com doesn't sell as many balls as you think ..............
jls
Post by: Good Times Good Times on January 18, 2011, 01:27:53 PM
Now he won't be able to afford a #6 with a large coke and fries from Wendy's?
GetOffMe10Pin
-"If you want to make enemies, try to change something." - Woodrow Wilson
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 18, 2011, 04:24:16 PM
Now he won't be able to afford a #6 with a large coke and fries from Wendy's?
Afraid you'll have to help me out here .. can't respond since I don't know what a #6 is! Fast foods are not my thing .. I have tried 5 GUYS (once) don't remember numbers on the menu! What exactly did I say in this posting that you take exception too????
Post by: HAMMERDOWN103 on January 18, 2011, 04:35:23 PM
The problem with socialism is, you eventually run out of other people's money too...
Post by: jls on January 18, 2011, 05:23:26 PM
Make that $25 on the Loaded...
Now rebates alone are not the answer...Both Ebonite and Storm feel the importance of protecting their brands image...As Storm said, they seem to feel that the consumer may think of them as a DISCOUNT brand...
So Storm much like Ebonite have taken the steps they feel will protect thier image...
They don't want to be the Northwestern Golf Co. of the bowling industry...
Now once again...Wake up Brunswick............
jls
Post by: pin-smasher on January 18, 2011, 07:39:31 PM
that sounds very dumb on there part if you ask me.People know what storm is and dosent matter what the price is i dont think anyone is thinking of them as a discount brand...
Post by: jls on January 19, 2011, 08:25:00 AM
Well sir, the good people at Storm saw it different... They felt that it was making their brand out to be a discount brand, as per that Quote from THEIR letter sent out to the Dist. and the pro shops...
And there were other factors listed...One that caught my eye was the one about how some consumers buy at a low price and then have a hole pounder drill the ball... and Storm felt that many times, the ball is not drilled using the drillings the way Storm intended them to be used...And then when said ball did not perform, the ball looked bad...
Congrads to Storm and Ebonite for stepping up to the plate...
Wake up Brunswick...
jls
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 19, 2011, 08:41:06 AM
If they thought the ball drillers were doing wrong .. why don't they put out something that will train the ball drillers? Why does making the BOWLER pay more correct the problem???
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 19, 2011, 08:59:24 AM
How does it fix the problem with drilling if I continue to buy on line (for more then I paid before)????
Post by: 3835 on January 19, 2011, 09:06:03 AM
Joe-
Doesn't fix your issue, but, JLS is right. Do you know how many balls are bought off of ebay and other online outlets that are then drilled at the basement hole puncher for $20 because the shop down the street charges $45? LOTS! Then, when ball X does not react like the other guys ball X on your Tuesday night league, the person who bought that ball online and saved a few bucks, and then saved a few more bucks by having the hole puncher drill 3 hole into the ball without ensuring it is within USBC specs, let alone pitches, PAP, etc...the person sends the ball back to Storm and says your ball sucks or whatever, and then comes to ballreviews and any other online site, drops a review about how the ball does nothing, and then badmouths the company and swears to never buy another ball from that company again because their product sucks.
NOW..take that scenario, but have the bowler go to the pro shop, have the ball (hopefully) professionally drilled and then take some lessons or pick the brain of the driller to help with the bowler's game, and then hopefully the ball reacts as intended. So, maybe the guy can only buy 1 ball instead of 2, but the long term effects are much different for everyone involved.
3835
Post by: pin-smasher on January 19, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 19, 2011, 04:54:21 PM
Keep in mind this is not to make your prices better if you buy online, but to make more for the company and for proshops.
How many of you go to proshops and they watch you bowl, find your PAP, ask you what you want and go from there on the layout? (maybe a few)
How many go to your proshop and they try pushing their EBI(got to keep that gold status) then what ever you choose they ask what you want the ball to do, or pick your favorite ball you currently have and drill it identical to the old ball with out ever watching you bowl? (more likely)
How many of you have thrown demo balls before at the shop and really loved the ball? Was it drill just for you?
See there is more then one way to drill a ball. Most of todays bowling balls can be drilled many different ways to get a favorable reaction. Many bowlers can learn more on their own and apply that to what they currently use and may want. Local brick and mortar shops may or may not do.
For most of these so called "basement drillers" that seem to be doing everything wrong, there are still far more that do this at your local "pro shop". Not all shops, but a lot. Also feel free to go to the company seminars. You get a package with the new equipment and listen to their sales pitch on the ball. There is nothing new about magic drillings or anything like that. Most are doing everything they can to not use the dual angle method, but some knock off version. Not sure why, but it is funny to watch.
So buy into what you want. If your a "pro shop" you want price regulation, because then you can have a much higher minimum price to charge the customer.(YOU AT HOME) This can effect you even if you buy only from your local shop. If they have minimum prices from the company, that company at any time can raise those prices. When that happens your cost will go up with it. (try looking at what companies think suggested retail is for their equipment. It is hilarious)
So if EBI or Storm feel they are being treated as bargain brands they may want to consider their sales. If your sales are not through the roof at the lower prices, raising the price will not make your product more desirable.
If I don't want your product at $119 don't assume I will want it at $133. ( I won't)
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: jls on January 20, 2011, 08:33:17 AM
Kid, How many online dealers watch you bowl or find your pap or answer questions for 20 minutes or more...
And your right, just because a ball is drilled in a pro shop doesn't mean it was done right...And to reverse that. In my area there are several "basement ball drillers" who do an Excellent Job...
Now as for the warranty...All balls are warrantied. However if bought in a pro shop there is usually no shipping cost to return a defective ball back to the Dist... However if bought online, Who pays for Said ball to be returned back to the online dealer??? Usually the consumer...And that little brown truck does not deliver for free...
Now as for the consumer going to seminars and buying the package... Sir "I don't think so Tim" Next week we have the Ebonite seminar to go to....One ball package per shop...Doesn't matter if both of us go...Only ONE ball Package per shop...
And since one now must register with their Dist to go to the seminar, I don't see how any consumers will get in...
Unless of course they tag along with a friend who is a Pro shop... But then again, NO PACKAGE...
jls
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 20, 2011, 08:52:08 AM
No one from an online store watches you bowl. You make the choice of what ball you want. Same for TVs, computers, food ect. It is you responsibility to be an adult and make that adult decision.
The point on seminars is that they aren't vast knowledge festivals that tech someone something that another person not attending would be at a disadvantage on. This was the point you appeared to make. That seminars are where "proshops" learn the latest and greatest. They are simply sales pitches with free stuff, or stuff at low prices.
Seminars on drilling and other business trades are not exclusive to proshops and can be attended by anyone. Most proshop employees don't learn that way. They learn from who ever they work under in the proshop. Maybe good, maybe bad.
You can try and blame people for saving money or going to non-bowling center establishments, but considering you have a reason of protecting your own business interest many can figure out that your opinion may be one of frustration not facts.
Same for the price regulations. It doesn't protect the consumer, it protects the business person. So you can scream for more change, but for many it will be the change they don't want.(higher prices) If all companies did this, no one would have an advantage on price because of minimums. Then proshops can afford to charge more because they will not be under cut by online stores. The manufactures can then charge more because there is no one that can sell the ball below the new minimum prices set. So say the HP ball was $129 your cost, then it goes to $150. Is the consumer still getting that ball for the same price as when you got the ball for $129?
When you eliminate the price competition, the prices don't get lower.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: Brickguy221 on January 20, 2011, 11:29:46 AM
I note the topic says $30 rebate on the Domination shows up on face-book. I don't belong to their face-book, but looked on the Ebonite site and don't see anything about a $30 rebate there, so is it for real or not and if buying the ball, will something come with the ball showing how to get the rebate.
I am definitely going to purchase a Mission next week and may purchase the Domination also depending how it performs for others, thus the reason for my asking here.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: jls on January 20, 2011, 11:50:39 AM
So far it appears that most Dist. have no info on this rebate... It may be something just offered on Facebook...
Simply go to Facebook.com and signed in...Then do a search for Ebonite...
jls
Post by: jls on January 20, 2011, 12:06:02 PM
Kid, I don't understand, why did you bring that up about pro shops not watching you bowl...How come it's not your responsibility then???
Now as for seminars and learning...When someone THINKS they know it all, They usually DON'T...
Never to OLD or BIG to learn something............
Once again this debate is really useless...
Online shoppers will never accept the fact that these programs are here to protect the brands and their image...and to help pro shops... You see some ball companies actually feel that Pro Shops are needed...
Now some online shoppers are trying to make a smoke screen here by saying things like, prices will soar, or my shop went up $15...
Yet I have not seen this... and on a daily basis, I deal and talk to more pro shops or reps than someone in the 3rd grade does...
TO ME, it is just plain stupid for any pro shop right now to raise their prices...Unless of course their price has gone up.... And I have not seen any prices go up...The new Alpha and the New Domination are still at the same prices as the last releases from those companies..
Now the V.G. Nano by Storm, that is due out on 3-1-11 has gone up about $6.50... So I would indeed expect to see pro shops raise their prices on that model...
So that's one ball in 4 months that went up...
And how much did gas cost our buddy Joe in Oct as compared to NOW...
So IMO, the ball companies have not tried to screw anyone...
Now yes, our buddy Joe has a valid point... He is going to pay more than before...
But as many have pointed out to Joe, before all online shoppers were taking advantage of super low prices offered by a few Dist to their online dealers... Now those tactics are gone... Well at least they are gone on Ebonite and storm products...
wake up brunswick
jls
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 20, 2011, 12:36:03 PM
"Kid, I don't understand, why did you bring that up about pro shops not watching you bowl...How come it's not your responsibility then???"
May be some mix up on that. Was referring to the fact not all proshops do most of what so few on here talk about in regards to customer service. Such as watching the bowler, finding out their specs, ect ect. Many do not do this, they just sell the bowler what they want and got to the next sale.(very unfortunate)
Prices haven't gone up yet is my other point. If all companies went to this price policy I'm guessing/assuming it would be inevitable that they could then raise prices very similar to gas. If that happens then there will likely be no going back. Internet sales have been around in bowling for a long time now and it is hard to think it is just now causing some type of negative effect on bowling companies.
Buying online isn't for everyone. Many shops have adapted over the years so as to still make good profits on bowling balls no matter where they come from. They also have the ability when a place online sale bowling ball at a cost lower then there to buy the ball at the same price from the same place as everyone else.
Proshops are on one side of this and many consumers are on the other side. Both expect to get the best deal possible.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: jls on January 20, 2011, 02:01:41 PM
Kid, as far as your thinking on if all companies do this, the price of balls will go up...This is about a bowling ball...People don't need a new bowling ball...but no matter what the cost of gas is, people NEED gas...
Therefore the price of gas can and will go up with nothing consumers can do about it... But in a slow economy, raising the prices of balls can or may cause a slowdown in sales...
I don't think that is what Ebonite had in mine...
However in the last 5 months we have seen a huge hike in gas prices, and that may cause prices of other items to go up... We know that shoe prices will be going up. And I'm not just talking about in bowling... I mean everywhere...
And as I stated, Storm's new release in March is going up in price...But like I said, many items are going up...
So yes, I do expect to see some increases in the price of bowling balls over the next few months... Just like we will see the price of many items go up...Including gas for Joe's car...
jls
Post by: JOE FALCO on January 20, 2011, 02:18:42 PM
So yes, I do expect to see some increases in the price of bowling balls over the next few months... Just like we will see the price of many items go up...Including gas for Joe's car...
Is there another JOE on here .. is this what you refer to as STALKING?? Please don't take me serious .. just remarking to let you know I have seen the comment .. I am an admitted ball whore but I buy only what I like and a the right price .. $200 bowling balls never interested me .. I have 9 Lane 1 balls and never paid more then $150 for each of them NIB/drilled/delivered. I should qualify my statement AT THE RIGHT PRICE I'M A BALL WHORE! There's a lot of good balls out there ..but at the prices they are asking they are breaking me of my habit! As for gas .. I buy it but look for the cheapest price .. right now I buy from BJ's .. no different then Bowling balls .. only thing is the buyer still has options on GAS!
Post by: jls on January 20, 2011, 03:26:17 PM
No Joe, it's you ...The point I was making in that post was, YES you will end up paying a few bucks more than before...But I hoping that pro shops will not take advantage of this and raise prices unless they get a price increase...
Now as for the cost of gas... We really can't say, "I won't buy any gas if the price is too high" But consumers can say, "I won't buy a bowling ball if they raise the cost too much"... We all need the gas...we really don't need the ball...
Therefore I see no reason why any pro shop would just raise prices without a price increase from the ball companies...
And Joe, Bowling needs more people like you...and I really do understand why you are so upset over these new policy's... Cause they did take away your "option"...
But as one poster said... "it was an option that the consumer should never have had in the first place"...And only got it because of a few greedy Dist...
Take care Joe
jls
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 20, 2011, 05:44:58 PM
Cost of things increasing due to gas increase is always there.
We as people can do things to use less gas as prices increase, and many times do. Same for bowling balls. They are not a needed item but at the rate companies are releasing them you may think otherwise. I think you would see a decrease in sales if this policy went business wide. That could lead to less bowling ball production. Higher prices on less produced products or lower prices on the same number of products being released right now. (likely one or the other)
I'm still just guessing that if this took on through all companies that the companies may take the initiative to increase prices for whatever reason. They can also put pressure on shops to continue to sale at high rates in order to still get their discounts on prices through manufactures.(such as the gold program ect) Making it harder for those shops to keep up in sales at a decent profit margin when they have to sell quantities at lower prices to try and get their discounts.
(ex your cost on all EBI products goes up $10 a ball before next season, but if you keep selling X amount, previous to the price increase, you get your gold discount. Are you going to be able to increase the price of each ball $10 and keep your same sales numbers or will you eventually start having to take less profits to try and reach those numbers and still make you quota? That is still less profit for proshops at tighter margins)
If all manufactures go to that same minimum price policy enforcing these prices on the online shops then consumers will have no choice but to pay more, or buy less. If they buy less does the manufacture come out ahead? Or the distributor, or the proshop?
If at these cheaper prices online you still can't move lots of product then it shows the market will not likely handle the same number of bowling balls at higher prices. Which would likely mean less production. If that is the route they want to go, thats fine. You can start producing less and releasing less new product now. You can only say it's the latest and greatest so many times a month before people figure out it really isn't.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: TrackMaster on January 21, 2011, 09:39:23 PM
Edited by TrackMaster on 1/21/2011 at 10:40 PM
Post by: completebowler on January 22, 2011, 05:59:06 AM
Really? 9 Lane 1 balls? Well I have a NIB Blueberry I will sell you for $275. Good deal my friend cause I will throw in free shipping, a towel, and a bottle of cleaner.....lol.
A ball whore at the right price???? One of the funniest comments I have ever seen here.
ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
WALLED LAKE MI
Edited by completebowler on 1/22/2011 at 7:18 AM
Post by: completebowler on January 22, 2011, 06:14:40 AM
You obviously have no idea how the EBI gold program works kid. Now, couple that with your repeated use of " I'm just guessing" and your wild hypotheticals on "what might happen" and you are doing us all a disservice by continuing to blur the picture on this issue.
And when I say "all" I mean BR users, not pro shops.
jls, myself, and others in the industry are running a business. It is the business that Storm and EBI depend on for the final delivery of their product to 85% of consumers. They feel we are an EXTREMELY important part of delivering a quality product. They have decided that it is important to support our businesses by somewhat leveling the playing field with the internet sellers.
It really is as simple as that.
ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
WALLED LAKE MI
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 26, 2011, 04:33:43 PM
I'm sorry the Gold Program isn't based on getting a discount for a certain amount of product sales?
Did you ever have an EBI rep tell you what you need to do in your proshop in order to keep the "status"?
I guess I misunderstood the EBI rep when he told the proshop to lose the other brands advertising and use more wall space for EBI stuff. (That was with about 80% of it being EBI with a little Brunswick and Storm equipment filling the rest.)
Yes I use hypothetical terms since right now all manufactures haven't gone to this policy. No one can say for certain, but anyone with some sense can do the math and see how easy it would be to inflate prices with no online retailers, or everyone using MAP pricing.
Be good, or be good at it.