BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Ebonite => Topic started by: charlest on April 26, 2003, 11:18:54 PM
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Just saw a post of one considering a shooter and a warrior.
I am amazed at the lack of any posts talking about the Shooter. The reviews seem to like this as a great medium ball. I wonder if the lack of "IT GOES LONGER, HOOK HARDER, HOOKS MORE THAN ANY BALL EVER CREATED" type of hype has soured people on even trying this ball.
So all you Ebonite lovers, all you new ball lovers, why no negatives and no positives about this ball?
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Charlest, I think it may have to do with Ebonite sending out the wrong balls when they first started sending them out. Then the story goes they began calling them back in. All kinds of rumors and stories were told about why the balls being called back, so people became gun shy of them. I was one of those that became gun shy. The Pro Shops where I live say pretty much the same thing I have said here. Also, the few people that bought the Warrior here didn't like them because they wouldn't handle carry down very well. Almost all of the reviews on the Shooter have been made by Ebonite's Regional Reps. thru out the United States.
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Charlest - I was able to try a friend's. Thumbhole was loose by 2 drill bit sizes, but there was a nice lock at the base of my thumb so at least I was able to throw it near my usual speed. Maybe 1 mph lower.
I have one on order, should arrive sometime in May. Will try to review then. Initial impression is favorable. Good recovery in case of missing target to the right. But does not seem to like carry down. Strong roll to pocket after breakpoint. Was used on Pro anvil lanes, fresh oil, 33 buffed to 38, Xmas tree.
In comparison to Warrior, the warrior seemed to have a sharper break. The shooter would seem to stop revving/slow down at/near the breakpoint, hook, then start revving again. I had one throw that the ball accelerated after the breakpoint. Nice.
Sorry for rambling
Regards
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What do you mean "its illegal to use my bowling ball for duckpins"? Heck, there goes the 900 series
DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
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Ambi1,
It depends on which one you tried: the polished one or the matte finish one.
The Warrior is for a whole lot less oil than either SHooter, as far as I know.
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quote:
Ambi1,
It depends on which one you tried: the polished one or the matte finish one.
The Warrior is for a whole lot less oil than either SHooter, as far as I know.
It (warrior) was polished (box finish).
Fence - that is nice to hear, but in my case the ball hangs a bit on carrydown. But most polished balls do anyway. The driling was psa below thumb. Maybe you just have nore hand than I do. But as I said, it was a friend's ball and the fit was loose.
regards
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What do you mean "its illegal to use my bowling ball for duckpins"? Heck, there goes the 900 series
DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
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quote:
warrior=good
shooter=not good
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Justin G. Pyle
JustinATX
~~Bowling is so FREAKIN addictive.~~
Justin - would you care to elaborate? Have thrown both balls, although diff hands (left -warrior), both were loose, but characteristics of both balls seemed similiar to me. I have place an order for the shooter, and would like to know if there is anything I should look out for. Thanks.
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What do you mean "its illegal to use my bowling ball for duckpins"? Heck, there goes the 900 series
DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
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Charlest there are actually 3 of them. Don't forget about the Shooter XL. I have a Warrior for medium to medium light oil and a Shooter XL for short oil paterns. I have'nt gotten to throw the XL much except for a few shots to make sure it fit properly. I am going to a tournament in PA this weekend if I can throw it, I will let you know.
The Warrior is drilled 4x4 and has a strong move to the pocket and reads the midlanes well.
The Shooter XL I had drilled 4 1/2 x 5 1/2 with the mass bias in the track. On the couple of shots I threw with it, it seems to hold a very straight line to the break point and gives you what the lane has on the back end. Sorry for the lack of info, just too much oil on our house shot to do much more than point it at the pocket.
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quote:
Charlest there are actually 3 of them. Don't forget about the Shooter XL.
Thanks, CoachJim.
No, I didn't forget. I just didn't want to cloud up an already fuzzy picture. I was more curious about what Ebonite fan(atic)s thought about this ball since so little has appeared here. I kind of liked the idea of the Shooter when I saw the BTM review. Then, the following month I saw a follow-up which made me realize Ebonite had bollixed up the ball's advertisement, introduction and possibly all sales, even with its own fans.
It is definitely bad news when Ebonite practically orders all their staff to post ball reviews for the Shooter here on BRs.com. There are 15 reviews, only 2 by non-Ebonite staff; only one of which, Jeff Carter, would I take for more than advertising. I don't recognize any of the others as posters here, just ballreviewers. That is so suspicious! Heck, it's not suspicious; it's all but circumstantial evidence.
Has anyone seen any reaction difference or any documentation on the actual difference between the Shooter and the Shooter XL BESIDES the XL's being polished? THAT is not a marketable difference!
Edited on 5/2/2003 5:43 AM
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charlest,
I don't know much about E, however, I remember reading something (sorry I can't reference for you) it said that the XL is a later ball but for a similar condition. For instance, both are medium balls but will give you a different reaction on the lane. The Shooter has more midlane where the XL is mostly backend. I want to say that it was a coverstock "tweak" difference. At least that is what I got out of it.
Sorry for the "obvious" post, but that's what I remember........
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Jeff
Edited on 5/2/2003 6:28 AM
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I went to the website and it doesn't even list the Shooter XL. They must have discontinued it after the BTM debacle. The reason I got the XL was because a friend of mine is an Ebonite Rep and he recomended it for short flat patterns. I do throw other stuff besides ebonite. I recently purchased 6 balls I will be reviewing once I have enough games to give an accurate review of each.
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The TPC Shooter XL will be introduced into the 2003-2004 product line. The 2003-2004 products will be introduced in early June. Products should be in pro shops by mid-June.
The Shooter XL was supposed to be introduced in March, but with the slowing economy, the decision was made to postpone the introduction date. One thing the industry doesn't need is another introduction when overall sales are on the decline.
It was an unfortunate mix-up in the introduction of the Shooter. There were two choices: Let the ball in the distribution channels, even though it did not live up to the marketing; or Pull the ball back (which was the Shooter XL), and delay the introduction of the proper ball (Shooter). We shipped the actual Shooters in mid-December. Mistakes do happen. It is how you deal with the mistakes that determines the integrity of the company.
The Shooter XL will be smoother at the breakpoint than the original Shooter, making it better for over-reacting lane conditions. The original Shooter provides a more angular breakpoint in light to medium oil conditions.
Yes, I do ask our regional staff to post reviews on all our products. I think you would be amazed at the amount of staff members from other comnpanies that actually post reviews. Our staff chooses to identify themselves. Will you see positive reviews? Sure. They believe that our products allow themselves to take full advantage of their talents. What you should take out of the reviews is the comparison of the ball to other balls in the Ebonite line. The best way to match a ball to the bowler and the lane condition is to know what other balls do in comparison. The first question that I ask someone that has called/written on a new ball is "What ball(s) are you throwing now and what are they not doing?" I feel the ballreviews.com page is an important vehicle for the sharing of information. That is why I ask our staff to support it.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to email me at: brian.pursel@ebonite.com
Brian Pursel
Product Manager
Ebonite
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I just shot my first 300 on Friday night with my Shooter.....so I of course think it is a great ball.
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Brian I have a big problem with this whole Shooter XL blunder. I wanted the shooter xl, my proshop ordered the xl, now you tell me that I got the shooter, not the XL which has not even been released yet. When it finally is released, it will have reviews over a year old. This is not acceptable. You should have posted it on Ebonite's site so we don't order the wrong ball and think that it is the correct ball. I still have not thrown mine to know what it does, thinking I don't want to ruin it before the Nationals. I might as well just bowl with it because it is not what I ordered any how. If the XL is blue or purple you might as well give them away because they will look the same and I don't trust ebonite to not mix them up again. Just release the damn ball, who cares. Do you really think people will be lining up to buy a ball that doesn't hook any way? You already lost one sale and countless more by pulling this blunder. You will not sell any if they are sitting in a warehouse somewhere.
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Brian which ball did Bowler's Digest review, the Shooter or the XL? The ball in the picture looks like the one I got, but it says the ball in the picture is the XL, how can this be if it has not been released yet?
Please help settle the confusion. How can I tell if I have a shooter or a shooter XL?
Don't get me wrong I love Ebonite equipment, but you guys seem to have a different name for every coverstock tweak, why couldn't Ebonite have just named it something different, or at least given it a different color or at very least put XL somewhere on the ball?
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CoachJim,
I know BTM reviewed both balls, but they were confused as to which one was which. It turned out that the ball they first identified as the SHooter was actually the XL (which I assume stands for eXtra Length). They then reviewed the "plain" Shooter. From their description, it appears that the only difference between them is the XL is polished while the Shooter is matte or compounded, but not dull.
I am not sure this is THE ONLY difference. Brian Pursel will have to tell us that. (This is not a normal difference in ball marketing.)
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Charlest I hope there is more to the XL than just the polish. I can hardly wait for the Vortex 2 XL to go with my Vortex 2 sanded. Brian I can polish the ball my self if that is all there is to it then I am greatly disappointed. How can you say the XL has not been released yet, when every Shooter/XL I have seen has been polished from the factory. Maybe the Shooter has not been released yet have you thought of that?
This past year I have bough a whole arsenal of Ebonite equipment,(Adrenaline, Warrior, V2, Stinger low flare, and Shooter/XL I'm not sure). I really like the reaction I get from each ball. When I get to the point where I don't even know what ball I have purchased and no one can give me a straight answer, maybe I don't need any more.
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Coach,
I don't understand. If you like the ball, what's the difference what its name is. In any case, if I interpret what Brian said correctly, the Shooter is what's been released. The S XL won't be released until June or later.
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The problem is that I purchased the XL not the shooter. I have not thrown the ball yet as I am saving it for the Nationals. I don't want a ball that out hooks my Warrior, I have enough equipment that will do that. They shouldn't have advertised a ball that will not be available for almost a year after it was improperly released. Both the Shooter and the Shooter XL were reviewed in Bowling This Month (the XL was reviewed twice by mistake). If it is not available why was it reviewed. Why all of the confusion?
Why make two different balls with the same name and color when you have a different name for every coverstock tweak?
Why hasn't Brian responded to my emails or posts?
Simple question what ball do I have? It is shiney, Purple with green writing and pin.
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Brian might not be here everyday. WHy not email him from the Ebonite webpages if you haven't tried that already?
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CoachJim:
I did respond directly to your mailbox. Please check your messages there.
The Shooter XL does have the letters XL under the Shooter logo. It is plainly visible. Other than one seed ball per Striking Effects Pro Shop (there are approximately 350 of them), none have seen the light of day to this point. Within one week of shipping the incorrect ball to the Striking Effects pro shops their ball, the correct Shooters were shipped. Unless your pro shop is a member of the Striking Effect program, every Shooter they have had is the correct model.
BTM reviewed both balls. They too received the incorrect one at first. It was too late to recant the review, as the magazine had already gone to press. They published a review on the correct Shooter the next month.
The Shooter XL will be introduced in June, with the rest of the Ebonite 2003-2004 catalog balls. The XL stands for extra length and the Shooter XL will be more controllable in the friction than the Shooter. The asymmetric core will increase carry percentage over other lighter oil balls that use larger cores such as the Tornado line.
I hope I have provided an adequate explanation. It was indeed an unfortunate circumstance that occurred, but to have the wrong ball in the market was not an option.
Brian Pursel
Product Manager
Ebonite
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Brian, thanks for the responce. I believe I do have the correct ball because the shop I bought it from is a Striking Effects member. I understand that mistakes do happen, I was just put off that the ball still had not been released and I might have got the wrong ball. I deal with a proshop that is halfway accross the country and it is a bit of a stress point to buy a ball sight unseen and then find out I might have got the wrong ball.
No hard feelings. Like I said I like Ebonite equipment, and I wouldn't bad mouth the Shooter even if it was not the ball I wanted. I still might get one down the road, just that it might react too closely to my V2 for now.
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I do not know how true this story is on the shooter but here it goes. When the ball was originally tested it had a white cover. This ball rolled sooner than the warrior and was stronger. This is what Ebonite wanted. When they put the ball in production, they used the purple cover and the ball ended up 10 feet longer than the original test balls. I decided to stay away from the shooter because I did not know which ball was released. I throw a lot of ebonite equipment and storm equipment. Needless to say Ebonite lost a sales to me as well as others. Indeed it was a mistake. Mistakes happen and sometimes they are costly. Just my 2 cents worth.
Edited on 5/20/2003 7:30 AM