BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: bullred on March 07, 2022, 10:55:46 AM
-
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
-
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
According to the most recent Brad and Kyle vlog; Brad walks us into the area where the TV pair is located and it is completely separate (different part of the building) from the lanes where they did the qualifying and match play. By his own admission he states they play pretty different but it was urethane that got Maldo and Osku to the TV finals. But I was shocked to see him using a "weak" urethane on the longer of the two patterns. Conversely; Sterner used an Infamous on the same lane and his look was terrible as well.
My question....is where were the ball reps during warmups and what were they seeing that led to them picking the Black Hammer and Proton for Maldo and Archer? What was the ball rep seeing that led to the Infamous as the ball of choice for Sterner? As good as Kent's look was (and he had room); I am surprised nobody tried to play on top of his line. Butturff has gotten to a point he is too reliant on the Purple Hammer. His look was not very good and he did not adjust one single time. Even after the first two flat 7 pins; Specto still showed his ball going over the 12 board the entire game. Kent and Tackett won simply because they played to their strengths (Kent playing straighter and Tackett wheeling on it from 4th-5th arrow).
-
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
You should really go to the venue and see first hand what’s happening before you get on here and just type anything. It happens very fast and these guys in general have a very good idea what’s going on. Add to that they only get 5 frames. This isn’t your Thursday night mixed league with your wife.
-
The toughest thing about urethane is that can go from functional to worthless quickly and with no warning.
-
The toughest thing about urethane is that can go from functional to worthless quickly and with no warning.
AMEN!!! :)
Most of us who don't throw it 19-20 mph would be better off with reactive with 1-2" pin to PAP. They still hook, but more predictably and carry for more than a game...
-
The toughest thing about urethane is that can go from functional to worthless quickly and with no warning.
AMEN!!! :)
Most of us who don't throw it 19-20 mph would be better off with reactive with 1-2" pin to PAP. They still hook, but more predictably and carry for more than a game...
AMEN to you sir!! Not only would short pin be predictable, it would also be more consistent from shot to shot because it does not moving oil around like urethane does.
-
Northface I will not get into a P------contest with you. I have been there and done that. I see bowlers becoming dependent on "ball reps" making decisions for them. That's not good. The game has become more complex, I agree. But, still no reason for a "pro bowler" staying with a ball that doesn't give him a chance to win. Is the "Bonus" for using a ball on TV gotten to be worth more than the prize money?
-
Northface I will not get into a P------contest with you. I have been there and done that. I see bowlers becoming dependent on "ball reps" making decisions for them. That's not good. The game has become more complex, I agree. But, still no reason for a "pro bowler" staying with a ball that doesn't give him a chance to win. Is the "Bonus" for using a ball on TV gotten to be worth more than the prize money?
😐
-
Northface I will not get into a P------contest with you. I have been there and done that. I see bowlers becoming dependent on "ball reps" making decisions for them. That's not good. The game has become more complex, I agree. But, still no reason for a "pro bowler" staying with a ball that doesn't give him a chance to win. Is the "Bonus" for using a ball on TV gotten to be worth more than the prize money?
😐
Personally after watching some of the vlogs like Brad and Kyle; I dont understand the need for ball reps. The bowlers are intelligent enough that they know what ball they should be throwing. Thats the reason for the practice session. Gives them an opportunity to try multiple pieces and then determine if they need to hit the truck or just make a surface adjustment to what they already have. Even with having 20+ balls in their possession when they first arrive at a stop, a good majority of the bowlers competing hit the truck at one point or another and drill something. Prather even said, "If you are not drilling, you are not trying."
-
I think the younger pros are the ones who keep up with ball layouts, etc, more than the older generation for a few reasons:
1- It's the game they know, and have always known, due to their age. With ball companies releasing several balls (seemingly every month) they have been "programmed" to change balls faster than the old pros, sometimes to their own detriment. Who loves this? Who sells balls, and there is a possible answer. I see weekly guys bring 6 or more balls to bowl a THS. The more balls they use, the higher my chances get of winning...
2- The older guys, like Norm Duke, have become very adept at changing hand positions and moving before making a ball change because that's what they did. Ball companies didn't used to release SPECIFIC ways to change ball motion with surface as they are now because the public demands it. We go to the internet for our instant gratification and answers to questions. If company A doesn't provide and answer then company B surely will. Changes in the world affect the bowling side too.
3- Many years ago a friend was talking to Walter Ray, who was between flights in our airport and was pleasant and approachable. He asked him about layouts and the answer was "I don't know much about that stuff, they drill 'em and I just roll 'em.
Surely there are more factors we may think of, but ball whores will always feel obligated to try a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ball before adjusting anything they do on the lanes. An experienced bowler may stick with his first choice longer UNLESS HE JUST HAS BAD BALL MOTION, and avoid losing a few frames getting truly lined up with every ball change. Just my .02...
-
Because pro sports teams don't all have a dozen coaches on the bench, and pro golfers don't each have their own caddies? Why can't bowling have reps? And with all the urethane usage on tv, you think they're concerned about the tv ball bonus? When do you ever see a brand new ball on tv any more? "Dependent" on ball reps? What?
Northface I will not get into a P------contest with you. I have been there and done that. I see bowlers becoming dependent on "ball reps" making decisions for them. That's not good. The game has become more complex, I agree. But, still no reason for a "pro bowler" staying with a ball that doesn't give him a chance to win. Is the "Bonus" for using a ball on TV gotten to be worth more than the prize money?
-
Luke - didn’t Dom just win the TOC with the unreleased Columbia Speed 2 weeks ago? Last week Marshall won with the Big Bowling Xtreme Rekker - not yet released. His partner EJ started the first 3 games with the Motiv Blue Venom Recoil Hybrid - also not yet released.
I would say the last 2 weeks lots of brand new stuff not only was on the show - but won
-
Things can change quickly, you have a single game, and in a doubles tournament, you have 5 frames, or 5 shots basically if you bowl the one game. You can get faked out in practice, and just getting a bad hit doesn't mean instantly make a big adjustment. If you didn't see the adjustments Butturff made, then you weren't looking very closely, just because he stayed in the same area didn't mean he wasn't making adjustments, and especially on the left side you quite often have to figure out how to play the same zone or area a different way. We don't have all the free hook and midlane stability the right side has.
This happened to me in league last night, and it took 7 frames of me making adjustments and trying to figure it out before I had to move. Tried a few balls out in practice, last few shots found something solid, started with that ball. First frame was a hard wrap 7, that's not something to adjust on, 2nd frame was a strike, 3rd frame was another hard wrap 7, ok maybe we do something different on that lane next time. 4th frame was a flat 7, so maybe we're already seeing the lanes settle down, time to do something. Slowed my speed down in the 5th frame, looked better, strike. Did the same thing in the 6th frame, but got it in a little, ball takes off for a 2-4-7-8, great. 7 frame, went from a solid strike right to a weak 7-10, so I finally decided to get out of the ball.
So 9/, X, 9/, 9/, X, 63, X, 7-10 and nothing to show for 6 great shots and one marginal one because apparently I got faked out in practice. On tv, your day is done at that point, and in the context of the doubles tournament, I'd have left a couple wrap 7s and a flat 7 on 5 great shots during which I made an adjustment and been done because I either got a bad read in practice or transition started at the wrong time. Butters made at least two adjustments in those 5 frames, and just didn't get the hits, so I don't get the take on any of this at all.
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
According to the most recent Brad and Kyle vlog; Brad walks us into the area where the TV pair is located and it is completely separate (different part of the building) from the lanes where they did the qualifying and match play. By his own admission he states they play pretty different but it was urethane that got Maldo and Osku to the TV finals. But I was shocked to see him using a "weak" urethane on the longer of the two patterns. Conversely; Sterner used an Infamous on the same lane and his look was terrible as well.
My question....is where were the ball reps during warmups and what were they seeing that led to them picking the Black Hammer and Proton for Maldo and Archer? What was the ball rep seeing that led to the Infamous as the ball of choice for Sterner? As good as Kent's look was (and he had room); I am surprised nobody tried to play on top of his line. Butturff has gotten to a point he is too reliant on the Purple Hammer. His look was not very good and he did not adjust one single time. Even after the first two flat 7 pins; Specto still showed his ball going over the 12 board the entire game. Kent and Tackett won simply because they played to their strengths (Kent playing straighter and Tackett wheeling on it from 4th-5th arrow).
-
Yeah there's always going to be new stuff mixed in, but how much urethane and how many purple hammers were also on there? If it was all about ball reps and companies trying to get people to throw the new stuff and there were big bonuses for it, you'd see a lot more new stuff than you see. New stuff is the exception rather than the rule, or is at least even from a selection standpoint. They players are going to throw what gives them the best chance to win, period, the companies don't pay them enough to offset what throwing a new ball might cost them in terms of prize money and titles, because they DO get bonuses for winning. The companies are less concerned with you winning with a particular ball, because outside of a few exceptions, no one cares or pays attention to what the pros are throwing any more, or they aren't going to see a pro throwing a ball on tv on Sunday and go buy that ball on Monday anymore, but they DO pay attention to what brand their favorite player represents. Winning > specific ball
Luke - didn’t Dom just win the TOC with the unreleased Columbia Speed 2 weeks ago? Last week Marshall won with the Big Bowling Xtreme Rekker - not yet released. His partner EJ started the first 3 games with the Motiv Blue Venom Recoil Hybrid - also not yet released.
I would say the last 2 weeks lots of brand new stuff not only was on the show - but won
-
Things can change quickly, you have a single game, and in a doubles tournament, you have 5 frames, or 5 shots basically if you bowl the one game. You can get faked out in practice, and just getting a bad hit doesn't mean instantly make a big adjustment. If you didn't see the adjustments Butturff made, then you weren't looking very closely, just because he stayed in the same area didn't mean he wasn't making adjustments, and especially on the left side you quite often have to figure out how to play the same zone or area a different way. We don't have all the free hook and midlane stability the right side has.
This happened to me in league last night, and it took 7 frames of me making adjustments and trying to figure it out before I had to move. Tried a few balls out in practice, last few shots found something solid, started with that ball. First frame was a hard wrap 7, that's not something to adjust on, 2nd frame was a strike, 3rd frame was another hard wrap 7, ok maybe we do something different on that lane next time. 4th frame was a flat 7, so maybe we're already seeing the lanes settle down, time to do something. Slowed my speed down in the 5th frame, looked better, strike. Did the same thing in the 6th frame, but got it in a little, ball takes off for a 2-4-7-8, great. 7 frame, went from a solid strike right to a weak 7-10, so I finally decided to get out of the ball.
So 9/, X, 9/, 9/, X, 63, X, 7-10 and nothing to show for 6 great shots and one marginal one because apparently I got faked out in practice. On tv, your day is done at that point, and in the context of the doubles tournament, I'd have left a couple wrap 7s and a flat 7 on 5 great shots during which I made an adjustment and been done because I either got a bad read in practice or transition started at the wrong time. Butters made at least two adjustments in those 5 frames, and just didn't get the hits, so I don't get the take on any of this at all.
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
According to the most recent Brad and Kyle vlog; Brad walks us into the area where the TV pair is located and it is completely separate (different part of the building) from the lanes where they did the qualifying and match play. By his own admission he states they play pretty different but it was urethane that got Maldo and Osku to the TV finals. But I was shocked to see him using a "weak" urethane on the longer of the two patterns. Conversely; Sterner used an Infamous on the same lane and his look was terrible as well.
My question....is where were the ball reps during warmups and what were they seeing that led to them picking the Black Hammer and Proton for Maldo and Archer? What was the ball rep seeing that led to the Infamous as the ball of choice for Sterner? As good as Kent's look was (and he had room); I am surprised nobody tried to play on top of his line. Butturff has gotten to a point he is too reliant on the Purple Hammer. His look was not very good and he did not adjust one single time. Even after the first two flat 7 pins; Specto still showed his ball going over the 12 board the entire game. Kent and Tackett won simply because they played to their strengths (Kent playing straighter and Tackett wheeling on it from 4th-5th arrow).
Luke,
Here is what happened to me in league this past Monday Night. I pulled out my Beast at box finish, with a layout of 45 x 4.5 in my trio league and during practice, I had a pretty good look. First game, I started with a double, followed by solid 9, strike, solid 10. After the solid 10, I realized I had too much angle on the backend. Even starting with 3 strikes in the first 5 frames, I pulled out my Scorpion, box finish and 30 x 4.5 layout (yep, I am the same guy that goes by vance836 when commenting on your YT channel), and proceeded to miss only twice the rest of the night. I go 258-279-279 for 816 leaving only 2 solid 9s and 2 solid 10s.
While I do understand you can get "faked out" and only have 5 shots; when you leave a flat 10 or flat 7 and you know you threw it good, that should be the indicator you are using the wrong ball or need to make a big move. Solid corner pins are one thing where a board move with the feet can make the difference between leaving one and carrying another. But not flat corner pins. This is especially true when throwing a urethane. While you may get away with it with the UC3 and maybe the Pink Widow; I am not sure there is another urethane that you can move into 3rd arrow and wheel it out to 5 and get it back with enough energy to kick the corners out. Plus, while you do mention the left side does not have as much lane friction as the right side due to way less traffic; the volume of oil is also lighter to help try to even that out on a lot of patterns which is why on Dragon, lefties could get the ball back from first arrow on a 45 foot pattern and a right hander could not. My biggest point regarding Butturff is that ever since he had that 1-2 year period where he dominated; he has become too reliant on that Purple Hammer to a point that is all he ever throws on TV and has been called out by Randy several times this past year or so when telling viewers which ball the players are using. Knowing you only have 5 shots; if I am leaving a flat corner pin; I am either making a bigger move and/or switching to a different ball and finding more oil up front because there is no wasted time. The best are the best because they make the change when the need arises. Look at Belmo once this year when he switched balls in the 9th or 10th when he needed a hit to win the game. Also look at Simo when he changed to the Reality and made the big move left to win his 3rd major. Conversely, Wesley Low makes one show and his look was god awful with the Blue Tank. Yet, he used it the entire game like it was the only thing in his bag. That will come with experience though.
-
Things can change quickly, you have a single game, and in a doubles tournament, you have 5 frames, or 5 shots basically if you bowl the one game. You can get faked out in practice, and just getting a bad hit doesn't mean instantly make a big adjustment. If you didn't see the adjustments Butturff made, then you weren't looking very closely, just because he stayed in the same area didn't mean he wasn't making adjustments, and especially on the left side you quite often have to figure out how to play the same zone or area a different way. We don't have all the free hook and midlane stability the right side has.
This happened to me in league last night, and it took 7 frames of me making adjustments and trying to figure it out before I had to move. Tried a few balls out in practice, last few shots found something solid, started with that ball. First frame was a hard wrap 7, that's not something to adjust on, 2nd frame was a strike, 3rd frame was another hard wrap 7, ok maybe we do something different on that lane next time. 4th frame was a flat 7, so maybe we're already seeing the lanes settle down, time to do something. Slowed my speed down in the 5th frame, looked better, strike. Did the same thing in the 6th frame, but got it in a little, ball takes off for a 2-4-7-8, great. 7 frame, went from a solid strike right to a weak 7-10, so I finally decided to get out of the ball.
So 9/, X, 9/, 9/, X, 63, X, 7-10 and nothing to show for 6 great shots and one marginal one because apparently I got faked out in practice. On tv, your day is done at that point, and in the context of the doubles tournament, I'd have left a couple wrap 7s and a flat 7 on 5 great shots during which I made an adjustment and been done because I either got a bad read in practice or transition started at the wrong time. Butters made at least two adjustments in those 5 frames, and just didn't get the hits, so I don't get the take on any of this at all.
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
According to the most recent Brad and Kyle vlog; Brad walks us into the area where the TV pair is located and it is completely separate (different part of the building) from the lanes where they did the qualifying and match play. By his own admission he states they play pretty different but it was urethane that got Maldo and Osku to the TV finals. But I was shocked to see him using a "weak" urethane on the longer of the two patterns. Conversely; Sterner used an Infamous on the same lane and his look was terrible as well.
My question....is where were the ball reps during warmups and what were they seeing that led to them picking the Black Hammer and Proton for Maldo and Archer? What was the ball rep seeing that led to the Infamous as the ball of choice for Sterner? As good as Kent's look was (and he had room); I am surprised nobody tried to play on top of his line. Butturff has gotten to a point he is too reliant on the Purple Hammer. His look was not very good and he did not adjust one single time. Even after the first two flat 7 pins; Specto still showed his ball going over the 12 board the entire game. Kent and Tackett won simply because they played to their strengths (Kent playing straighter and Tackett wheeling on it from 4th-5th arrow).
Wait, do I see a Lefty trying to claim their side it more challenging? Really? Wasn't Butturff the only left hander?
Please...
-
Northface I will not get into a P------contest with you. I have been there and done that. I see bowlers becoming dependent on "ball reps" making decisions for them. That's not good. The game has become more complex, I agree. But, still no reason for a "pro bowler" staying with a ball that doesn't give him a chance to win. Is the "Bonus" for using a ball on TV gotten to be worth more than the prize money?
😐
Personally after watching some of the vlogs like Brad and Kyle; I dont understand the need for ball reps. The bowlers are intelligent enough that they know what ball they should be throwing. Thats the reason for the practice session. Gives them an opportunity to try multiple pieces and then determine if they need to hit the truck or just make a surface adjustment to what they already have. Even with having 20+ balls in their possession when they first arrive at a stop, a good majority of the bowlers competing hit the truck at one point or another and drill something. Prather even said, "If you are not drilling, you are not trying."
I would ask if you’re serious, unfortunately, I know that you are. Of course reps are needed. Some of these have no idea what these “balls do†they need someone to tell them stand here, look here, and use this ball.
-
Having bowled for several years on both sides of the lane, yes, the left side is more challenging, especially on tougher conditions. You don't realize how much the track friction offers you as a righty until you don't have it any more. There's a whole lot of free stability that you don't even understand. On the left, sure, if you have a shot, it's not likely to leave, but if you have nothing, it's never going to show up. The wet/dry is more pronounced, whole lot more of a cliffed feeling on everything because there's no track wear or friction. Getting angles right sometimes is a nightmare because you can't just move around as freely as you can on the right, sometimes you're locked into a zone and have to figure out how to adjust and trick things within that zone, that's why lefties throw urethane on everything and stay at 2nd to 3rd arrow.
If the left side is so easy, just switch. Fighting issues on the right side was frustrating, trying to bowl on the left makes me want to quit, it's absolutely the least fun I've ever had doing anything.
Things can change quickly, you have a single game, and in a doubles tournament, you have 5 frames, or 5 shots basically if you bowl the one game. You can get faked out in practice, and just getting a bad hit doesn't mean instantly make a big adjustment. If you didn't see the adjustments Butturff made, then you weren't looking very closely, just because he stayed in the same area didn't mean he wasn't making adjustments, and especially on the left side you quite often have to figure out how to play the same zone or area a different way. We don't have all the free hook and midlane stability the right side has.
This happened to me in league last night, and it took 7 frames of me making adjustments and trying to figure it out before I had to move. Tried a few balls out in practice, last few shots found something solid, started with that ball. First frame was a hard wrap 7, that's not something to adjust on, 2nd frame was a strike, 3rd frame was another hard wrap 7, ok maybe we do something different on that lane next time. 4th frame was a flat 7, so maybe we're already seeing the lanes settle down, time to do something. Slowed my speed down in the 5th frame, looked better, strike. Did the same thing in the 6th frame, but got it in a little, ball takes off for a 2-4-7-8, great. 7 frame, went from a solid strike right to a weak 7-10, so I finally decided to get out of the ball.
So 9/, X, 9/, 9/, X, 63, X, 7-10 and nothing to show for 6 great shots and one marginal one because apparently I got faked out in practice. On tv, your day is done at that point, and in the context of the doubles tournament, I'd have left a couple wrap 7s and a flat 7 on 5 great shots during which I made an adjustment and been done because I either got a bad read in practice or transition started at the wrong time. Butters made at least two adjustments in those 5 frames, and just didn't get the hits, so I don't get the take on any of this at all.
Sometimes I don't like what I see. I"ve watched Belmo, Simonson, and now Maldanado, throw away a tournament by trying to use a urethane ball when it was obvious even to an amateur that was not the right ball to be trying to use. This week DJ Archer spent the whole game trying to find a ball when it was obvious he needed to down grade his ball a bunch, not one at a time.
According to the most recent Brad and Kyle vlog; Brad walks us into the area where the TV pair is located and it is completely separate (different part of the building) from the lanes where they did the qualifying and match play. By his own admission he states they play pretty different but it was urethane that got Maldo and Osku to the TV finals. But I was shocked to see him using a "weak" urethane on the longer of the two patterns. Conversely; Sterner used an Infamous on the same lane and his look was terrible as well.
My question....is where were the ball reps during warmups and what were they seeing that led to them picking the Black Hammer and Proton for Maldo and Archer? What was the ball rep seeing that led to the Infamous as the ball of choice for Sterner? As good as Kent's look was (and he had room); I am surprised nobody tried to play on top of his line. Butturff has gotten to a point he is too reliant on the Purple Hammer. His look was not very good and he did not adjust one single time. Even after the first two flat 7 pins; Specto still showed his ball going over the 12 board the entire game. Kent and Tackett won simply because they played to their strengths (Kent playing straighter and Tackett wheeling on it from 4th-5th arrow).
Wait, do I see a Lefty trying to claim their side it more challenging? Really? Wasn't Butturff the only left hander?
Please...
-
Northface I will not get into a P------contest with you. I have been there and done that. I see bowlers becoming dependent on "ball reps" making decisions for them. That's not good. The game has become more complex, I agree. But, still no reason for a "pro bowler" staying with a ball that doesn't give him a chance to win. Is the "Bonus" for using a ball on TV gotten to be worth more than the prize money?
😐
Personally after watching some of the vlogs like Brad and Kyle; I dont understand the need for ball reps. The bowlers are intelligent enough that they know what ball they should be throwing. Thats the reason for the practice session. Gives them an opportunity to try multiple pieces and then determine if they need to hit the truck or just make a surface adjustment to what they already have. Even with having 20+ balls in their possession when they first arrive at a stop, a good majority of the bowlers competing hit the truck at one point or another and drill something. Prather even said, "If you are not drilling, you are not trying."
I would ask if you’re serious, unfortunately, I know that you are. Of course reps are needed. Some of these have no idea what these “balls do†they need someone to tell them stand here, look here, and use this ball.
North,
And yet half the time the look the bowlers have on the lane is awful (See Buttruff and Sterner this past week and Low a few weeks prior). Look at Tommy a few weeks ago as well. Looked unbeatable during the Regional Finals and yet not very competitive when on the same lanes because the Regional he went with a Widow Ghost (looked really good on both lanes) and the Finals they changed balls and he looked less than stellar.
Fact is the pros already know what part of the lane to play on a given pattern. On short they play way out and on longer they play inside. On medium length patterns they play what gives them the best look. Some still use urethane up the track and others go with higher end balls and boom it from inside. It isnt rocket science. A tour rookie may need a little guidance but even then, it wont take him long to figure it out just from watching guys that have been on tour a while. The only person that has admitted to having an issue with some of the balls is Belmo. And yet, he is the best bowler in the world for a reason and I can assure you it has nothing to do with ball reps. Man do you have issues.
-
Luke,
I am not saying that the left side is so easy as to being able to close your eyes and throw the ball. My point is that on the PBA patterns, it isnt as cliffed as we might think because if it was, lefties would have no chance to make a show. For certain, PB III would not be competitive at all because he cant play 3rd arrow. House shots I can understand your point because the oil ratios are much much higher. Even I was seeing a cliff on the right side on our house shot which I why I decided to punch up the Scorpion in the first place. My initial thought process was to use a Beast and play up the track. But here in Florida, backends are much cleaner than what I was used to while living in Atlanta. If I get the ball outside 5 too quickly the ball went left and would hit light brooklyn side. So I get what the cliff is. I think the reason our perception of the left side not being as challenging is because it seems like no matter what pattern is put out there; the gutter is almost always in play. Even the 45 foot Dragon pattern was in play on the left side from the 5 board. Fach and Russo had a field day playing 10 out to 5 on that pattern which should be unheard of. If the old -31 rule were in play today, that would mean a breakpoint of the 14 board on Dragon which there is almost no chance a left hander is playing that deep (maybe Packy and Jesper?). With the right ball in your hand; the -31 rule is probably more like -35 now.
-
It is as cliffed, the left side is definitely more cliffed than the right I'd say the majority of the time. If it wasn't as cliffed, why would lefties default to urethane so much? It's non negotiable in a lot of situations. Urethane is more viable on the left because not having the track friction, urethane isn't as early and slow as it is on the right, you get more length and definitely more shape. This puts the ditch in play because you do have more freedom to play with the shape and roll, whereas on the right, the track will cause problems if you're too far right. The gutter might as well be the 5 board on the right, but 2-5 on the left is where the best look is at most of the time, get it much inside of that and it'll just never hold, there's no blend, and because of that, if the ditch isn't in play, it's going to be rough. Remember that PB3 ran over the tour when they bowled on house shots, as soon as they went to more difficult patterns, he disappeared for years.
It's a whole different experience watching vs participating. The good lefties are a lot more accurate and skilled than you think they are, and yeah if they have a look, they're just going to win and it's going to feel demoralizing. Lefties have to be accurate because there's not as much room to get to the pocket, and when they have a couple extra boards to work with, they aren't going to miss. I've got a buddy that's the best lefty you've never heard of, and when him and Packy team up for doubles tournaments around here, everyone else is literally bowling for 2nd, so I get it, but becoming competitive as a lefty myself, there are days you're straight up locked out, and certain centers you'll just never compete at as a lefty. It's a whole lot more hot and cold, and the comfort that you have as a righty that even if you don't have a look early, the lanes will break down and you'll figure something out, that doesn't exist on the left. It's either there in practice or it's going to be a long day. And maybe it's realistically not more difficult, but the feast or famine thing drives me insane, at least on the right you're on the same playing field, it's up to you to make the adjustments and get things done, but if it starts out tough for everyone and opens up on the right while never opening up and staying tough on the left, it's a done deal and you have to just suffer for however many games.
Luke,
I am not saying that the left side is so easy as to being able to close your eyes and throw the ball. My point is that on the PBA patterns, it isnt as cliffed as we might think because if it was, lefties would have no chance to make a show. For certain, PB III would not be competitive at all because he cant play 3rd arrow. House shots I can understand your point because the oil ratios are much much higher. Even I was seeing a cliff on the right side on our house shot which I why I decided to punch up the Scorpion in the first place. My initial thought process was to use a Beast and play up the track. But here in Florida, backends are much cleaner than what I was used to while living in Atlanta. If I get the ball outside 5 too quickly the ball went left and would hit light brooklyn side. So I get what the cliff is. I think the reason our perception of the left side not being as challenging is because it seems like no matter what pattern is put out there; the gutter is almost always in play. Even the 45 foot Dragon pattern was in play on the left side from the 5 board. Fach and Russo had a field day playing 10 out to 5 on that pattern which should be unheard of. If the old -31 rule were in play today, that would mean a breakpoint of the 14 board on Dragon which there is almost no chance a left hander is playing that deep (maybe Packy and Jesper?). With the right ball in your hand; the -31 rule is probably more like -35 now.
-
Well I guess that settles it then. The left-handers are just better than the right-handers.
::)
-
Because lefties are overwhelmingly dominating bowling . . more fun to troll than actually have a conversation I guess. You'd think there would be more than 7 lefty 900 series since it's so easy and the conditions never change and it's walled up . . but I guess since it's so easy and walled up, the lefties never really get good enough to compete. Someone who's spent years on both sides would obviously not have an applicable perspective on it, or I guess because I'm just a conceited propaganda machine, it's apparently not a valid one . .
Well I guess that settles it then. The left-handers are just better than the right-handers.
::)
-
Because lefties are overwhelmingly dominating bowling . . more fun to troll than actually have a conversation I guess. You'd think there would be more than 7 lefty 900 series since it's so easy and the conditions never change and it's walled up . . but I guess since it's so easy and walled up, the lefties never really get good enough to compete. Someone who's spent years on both sides would obviously not have an applicable perspective on it, or I guess because I'm just a conceited propaganda machine, it's apparently not a valid one . .
Well I guess that settles it then. The left-handers are just better than the right-handers.
::)
Okay, let's do some math then.
A quick google search says 37 sanctioned 900 series have been bowled.
Another quick google search says 16.1% of males are left-handed.
So if 7 of the 37(two by the same person) sanctioned series are bowled by left-handed bowlers, that is 18.91%
If Mushtare is a lefty, then the percentage is even higher at 19.4%
More than the actual percentage of left-hand males.
What was your question again? ???
-
I just wanted to state that I really enjoy reading Luke's perspectives on how the left side plays. I had never considered that cliffing is often an issue on that side, but now hearing that perspective it makes sense. Anyway, carry on.
-
I tend to go with Luke on this for a couple of reasons, neither of which even have to do with him switch-throwing...
1. Other than Jason Couch, I don't remember a lot of big-wheel lefties being successful over the years until Butturff showed up, unless you count Jess Stayrook, but I wouldn't say Stayrook was a tour-topper. And Couch has maybe the most unique game of all time, certainly among guys that won as much as he did. Packy has a power game, so does Keven Williams, but there are a lot more PBIII clones out there than Couch clones at the moment, especially if you restrict the discussion to guys who use just one hand.
2. I was fortunate enough to bowl with a higher-rev, accurate lefty as a teammate for 10+ years and he was pretty automatic until the game got inside of 10. Then he had a massive amount of trouble dealing with the cliff. When his shot was there, good luck to ya. When he had to worry about really projecting the ball, I could beat him despite not being nearly the bowler he was. I realized, too, after talking to him that lefty he and righty me didn't even speak the same language when describing transition and blend.
-
I have nothing against Luke. I actually enjoy what he writes and watch his review videos. His reviews are always better than 95% of the staffers that I have seen.
He just stated a "fact" to prove his point. I countered it with what the numbers actually show.
Is the left side tougher? It damn sure is for me, but I'm a natural right handed who can't come to terms with my clumsy ass feet when bowling left-hand.
-
Luke,
I am not saying that the left side is so easy as to being able to close your eyes and throw the ball. My point is that on the PBA patterns, it isnt as cliffed as we might think because if it was, lefties would have no chance to make a show. For certain, PB III would not be competitive at all because he cant play 3rd arrow. House shots I can understand your point because the oil ratios are much much higher. Even I was seeing a cliff on the right side on our house shot which I why I decided to punch up the Scorpion in the first place. My initial thought process was to use a Beast and play up the track. But here in Florida, backends are much cleaner than what I was used to while living in Atlanta. If I get the ball outside 5 too quickly the ball went left and would hit light brooklyn side. So I get what the cliff is. I think the reason our perception of the left side not being as challenging is because it seems like no matter what pattern is put out there; the gutter is almost always in play. Even the 45 foot Dragon pattern was in play on the left side from the 5 board. Fach and Russo had a field day playing 10 out to 5 on that pattern which should be unheard of. If the old -31 rule were in play today, that would mean a breakpoint of the 14 board on Dragon which there is almost no chance a left hander is playing that deep (maybe Packy and Jesper?). With the right ball in your hand; the -31 rule is probably more like -35 now.
Here’s another HOF post from the ultimate arm chair bowler. No one cares about your mixed league Cliff shot, bucko.
Bowlero Wauwatosa has a very beat up surface. The track prevails on everything there. And they’re HPLs? So there’s hook all over the lane. Rule of 31? That’s a loose generalization, not a hard fast rule.
-
Luke,
I am not saying that the left side is so easy as to being able to close your eyes and throw the ball. My point is that on the PBA patterns, it isnt as cliffed as we might think because if it was, lefties would have no chance to make a show. For certain, PB III would not be competitive at all because he cant play 3rd arrow. House shots I can understand your point because the oil ratios are much much higher. Even I was seeing a cliff on the right side on our house shot which I why I decided to punch up the Scorpion in the first place. My initial thought process was to use a Beast and play up the track. But here in Florida, backends are much cleaner than what I was used to while living in Atlanta. If I get the ball outside 5 too quickly the ball went left and would hit light brooklyn side. So I get what the cliff is. I think the reason our perception of the left side not being as challenging is because it seems like no matter what pattern is put out there; the gutter is almost always in play. Even the 45 foot Dragon pattern was in play on the left side from the 5 board. Fach and Russo had a field day playing 10 out to 5 on that pattern which should be unheard of. If the old -31 rule were in play today, that would mean a breakpoint of the 14 board on Dragon which there is almost no chance a left hander is playing that deep (maybe Packy and Jesper?). With the right ball in your hand; the -31 rule is probably more like -35 now.
Here’s another HOF post from the ultimate arm chair bowler. No one cares about your mixed league Cliff shot, bucko.
Bowlero Wauwatosa has a very beat up surface. The track prevails on everything there. And they’re HPLs? So there’s hook all over the lane. Rule of 31? That’s a loose generalization, not a hard fast rule.
So the best you have to offer on this site makes you look like an idiot to everyone else???? You bring nothing to the table to help make anyone better. Guess this is what happens when you catch your wife sleeping with another man. You are the man, North!!! Keep it up while I sit here and laugh.
-
It's a whole lot more hot and cold, and the comfort that you have as a righty that even if you don't have a look early, the lanes will break down and you'll figure something out, that doesn't exist on the left. It's either there in practice or it's going to be a long day. And maybe it's realistically not more difficult, but the feast or famine thing drives me insane, at least on the right you're on the same playing field, it's up to you to make the adjustments and get things done, but if it starts out tough for everyone and opens up on the right while never opening up and staying tough on the left, it's a done deal and you have to just suffer for however many games.
I will say that your right side comment really only applies to the high rev guys (which is most of the tour). For the rest of us, it can be a nightmare. I can start off with a nice look on the right, but with most of the pair being high rev guys throwing strong or sanded equipment, my look can go to horrible in an instant. I can "play" just about anywhere, but I'm not going to carry from super deep with a moderate rev rate. I believe that's part of why the older guys who were dominating not all that long ago are an after thought at this point.
-
Pretty interesting you say that when I get IMs from several people telling me they enjoy what I have to say and thank me for passing along knowledge I have learned from being in the sport for almost 40 years. You offer nothing to anyone yet I am the joke. Okay. I am done as you are now headed into my ignore list.