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Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: Wallshot on August 15, 2006, 02:15:41 PM

Title: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 15, 2006, 02:15:41 PM
My BW's pin and cg are inline with each other but the mass bias marking is way off center:

P

cg

-------mb

I've never seen such a degree of misalignment except on x-out balls. It does limit certain layouts but probably not the one I'm considering. I'm just curious if other BW owners have their mb in a similar offset position out of box?
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: hammermike2000 on August 15, 2006, 10:27:59 PM
The MB on my Black Widow is offset about 2 inches to the right, but did not affect how I got it drilled (pin over ring, cg stacked, mb at 2 inches to the right of the thumb).
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BOWL N.C. TOUGH SHOTS TOUR
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 15, 2006, 10:28:04 PM
That sounds exactly like mine. Not quite as weird as a Storm Trifecta I recently bought used that had the MB AND CG on the PAP!!!! At least it was marked with a big "B" (blem) on it.

p


==================cg
==================mb

Here's a pic of the Black Widow:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/923/bwmbwt3.jpg

Edited on 8/15/2006 10:26 PM

Edited on 8/15/2006 10:26 PM

Edited on 8/15/2006 10:27 PM
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: themagician on August 15, 2006, 10:42:40 PM
Thats really a really good thing if your right handed. You can go pin up with the cg close to your palm and the MB in strong and most likely not need a weight hole, it just looks like the cg is an Inch and a Half off line. Take advantage of it if your a righty.
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Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: mrbowlingnut on August 15, 2006, 10:50:04 PM
quote:
Thats really a really good thing if your right handed. You can go pin up with the cg close to your palm and the MB in strong and most likely not need a weight hole, it just looks like the cg is an Inch and a Half off line. Take advantage of it if your a righty.
--------------------
Check profile for bowler info



I was going to type exactly what magicmike said this ball is prefect for no weight hole and should work well for you.
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 15, 2006, 11:33:20 PM
I agree and therein lies the problem. I try to get my balls down to around 14.9 pounds because of a chronic hand injury. I accomplish this by drilling the fingers and thumb deep and putting in an x-hole. Ocassionally we get lucky and find a 15 or 15.1 pound ball and can avoid an x-hole, but the BW is 15.3. I also would like to keep the mb relatively close to the thumb which with the way the cg and pin are aligned on the bW means not kicking out the cg (equating to no static imbalance; an x-hole would result in negative weight which I do not want in the BW).

The other option is to place a very, very deep x-hole in and past the center of the ball (using a 12 inch drill bit) once past the center point positive weight returns. The problem with this approach is that you never know how it might affect the dynamics of the ball once you start drilling in and through the core/weight block. I've had this done on many, many balls and it's a very effective way to reduce a balls gross weight but the results as far as ball reaction is concerned are a bit of a crap shoot. Sometimes it enhances a balls dynamics by creating a large mass bias and other times it kills it.

My driller was a physics major, he'll figure something out. Any other ideas, guys?

Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: ShermDawg on August 16, 2006, 12:52:54 AM
why not just order a solid 14 lbs ball... they can hit just as hard and u dont have to drill such large and deep weight holes... just a thought...

but that MB placement is money for right handers... no wories about side weight and wut not...u could even stack it pin above ring and have the MB in amedium strong position... then drill a fatty weight hol on the side to give some negative sidweight and then drill the fingers down deep...

then pop a switch grip on there ( 1 1/2 inch hole) and that will take out plenty of weight...
--------------------
Mason Sherman
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer."
Talk is Cheap, Just Bring it...
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 16, 2006, 01:01:58 AM
I went to 14 pounds when my hand was healing up but I definitely noticed a difference in carry (decent on a THS but on more demanding conditions a light 15 pounder is about as low as you should go). I just drilled up a Diablo and decided to try and throw it with whatever weight it came in at after drilling which was 14 pounds 13 ounces. I handled it o.k. So maybe I'll just try and get use to the few xtra ounces.

I do use a switch grip and you can take out a decent amount of weight drilling the SG hole deep as well as the fingers.
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: ShermDawg on August 16, 2006, 02:20:41 AM
awesome... i use switch grip as well.. its great... love the extra weight that gets taken out and its a very versatile system
--------------------
Mason Sherman
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer."
Talk is Cheap, Just Bring it...
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: DanR on August 17, 2006, 03:21:07 AM
The PIN and MB is the only thing you have to be concerned with when drilling any ball.  To put it simply, the closer the MB is to your PAP the sooner the ball will roll.
I'm actually searching for a Black Widow with the MB 2"+ to the right.  This will allow me to drill the ball strong without a weight hole
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 17, 2006, 01:51:48 PM
Since the cg placement is meaningless we drilled it with the pin above the bridge, cg slightly to the left of midline which allowed for the mb to be placed just right of the thumb. The result was 1/2 an ounce of negative weight but as I learned long ago static weights mean very little.

After drilling the thumb and fingers deep the gross weight was 14lbs 10 1/2 oz.

I expect this layout to be strong and smooth with good control.

---p
--0 0
-cg
---0mb

Edited on 8/17/2006 1:46 PM

Edited on 8/17/2006 1:46 PM

Edited on 8/17/2006 1:48 PM
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 17, 2006, 02:26:22 PM
Here's a pic:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/838/hammerbwxt2.jpg
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Strapper_Squared on August 17, 2006, 04:35:25 PM
quote:
Here's a pic:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/838/hammerbwxt2.jpg


What's the ring finger span compared to the middle finger span?  From photo, it looks like 1/4" difference (maybe more)?  

A little late now, but I was going to suggest keeping the MB close to the thumb, but swinging the pin out towards your PAP... going with something like a 2.5 X 6.5 layout.  That layout seems to give nice results on high mass bias balls (i.e. MoRich equipment).  It would have allowed you to use a weight hole as well...  Oh well.  Good luck with the ball...

S^2
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Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Wallshot on August 17, 2006, 05:27:56 PM
The ring finger is indeed 1/4 inch longer than the middle. I experimented a couple weeks ago with lengthening the rf to promote more side roll. Originally it had been only 1/8th longer and often times I felt like the rf was just along for the ride. So, we first went 5/16ths longer and then dropped it down to 1/4". I know this is an extreme variation but when tweaking I always begin with the max and work down from there. The results thus far are good. I'm clearing the thumb cleaner and my fingers now work in unison much of the time. I also find it much easier to go straight through the ball (like on PBA patterns) instead of around it too much.






Edited on 8/17/2006 5:28 PM
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Joey D724 on August 18, 2006, 04:30:03 PM
I just got my BW today and could use a little help as well w/ the drilling. I don't know much about drilling, I usually have all my balls drilled the same. What I noticed w/ my BW is the pin and cg are right next to each other and massbias is further down. I usually have the ball drilled w/ the pin above the right index. I'm a little nervous after seeing Wallshots ball and the CG and pin much further apart.  Is this normal? Any help would be appreciated, forgive me if this is a totally stupid question.
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: ShermDawg on August 18, 2006, 09:35:33 PM
the cg will not effect the balls reaction ... it will only effect the static weight (side, finger or thumb) other than that the placement of the pin and MB are key to the success of any assymetrical ball... especially the black widow
--------------------
Mason Sherman
Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer."
Talk is Cheap, Just Bring it...
Title: Re: NIB Black Widow MB placement....help!
Post by: Robadat on August 30, 2006, 09:16:55 PM
Joey,
With the assyms, the placemaents of the pin and mb are what controls the reaction, the cg has little to do with it.  The problem that you have with the cg so close to the pin on the ball is that it limited to a pin under drilling to keep it legal. Trying to drill it pin up over fingers is going to put the cg under your fingers, this ball would then end up way over on finger weight. the placement of a balance hole in that case will be above the fingers on your grip.  Most likely, the ball will flare over it. Your best bet is to either swap it for one with a pin in the 3-4" range or drill it pin under.

Bob