Author Topic: No Mercy & HART core (Read 5153 times)

RyanRPS · « **on:** January 09, 2007, 10:28:27 PM »

Just drilled a NM for a customer last night, and I really want someone (perhaps from Hammer if they read these) to explain exactly how this thing works... get as technical as you like because I understand fully the dynamic effects of the core in a bowling ball.. but cant understand how this works...

My initial thought was that the HART marking denotes a spot a few inches left of the MB, and by placing it in your track puts the MB in the strong position... but that wouldnt work if you were left handed, because the MB would be in the same place relitive to the HART marking, and therefore after drilling would be around your NAP.

Simply saying "this is a different type of core" doesnt make sense... if it is an asymmitric core, it has a mass bias... To take affect at any point in the balls roll, it needs to come near/on the (migrating) leverage line... this is how regular mass bias positions are worked out for early roll etc, so that the Leverage line encounters the MB at the desired time...

The only thing I can think of, which i cant see being true, is that because the track on the ball seems to be lowered for most people throwing these (as was with the guy I drilled one for) everything is shifted across/down/around the ball a couple inches, making the new "strong" position on the left of the thumbhole as apposed to the right (for most people) or at 90ish degrees as apposed to the usual 70..

Please explain... have you altered physics?!?! lol

Ryan

anotherwindup · « **Reply #16 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:42:44 AM »

quote:
Jesse,

I think a main reason was they jumped on the R&D when the USBC attempted to push the "no weight hole and no further than 1" from CG" over a year ago. Hammer's thought was to keep the reactions, but incorporate the new rule. While the rule was tabled, Hammer did come up with a novel concept.
--------------------
No, my name is not Prince and I'm not particularly funky.

You have actually meshed 2 of the proposed rule changes together.
1. No weight holes.
2. CG must be within 1" of the center of grip.

Now, the NM can be drilled to meet both of these specs and STILL have a strong reaction.

Is this why the ball was created? I don't know. I am not at liberty to put "words in the mouths" of Brian Graham, or Ron Hickland.
--------------------
Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
'06-'07 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"

http://www.hammerbowling.com/hammertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2

anotherwindup · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2007, 06:08:39 AM »

COPIED FROM ANOTHER THREAD,AS IT APPLIES HERE AS WELL.

quote:
quote:
quote:
Scott- I would like some clarification on your statement, if you would please. What do you mean by misaligned?

Jason,

I don't think you were using the forum much around Sept. Oct. when I got an NM. Here's the deal. I wound up thru my driller one fo the first series of NM's that came out. If, I knew then what I know now and if my driller also would have known more I would have refused the ball and he would have sent back to Hammer for replacement.

It was misaligned pin and HART in line with the CG kicked to the left looking at the label at least 1 1/2" maybe more. I used the #1 pattern...my thinking being it's an oil ball so I am going to use it witha strong layout as my heavy oil ball. Pin to PAP 4" next and slighty above ring. Hart 1" left of my thumb. CG wound up under my middle finger about an 1 1/2". Wound up with 7/8 oz. negative. Ball at many different surfaces was inconsistent. Then, tried an x hole slightly above my NAP taking it to 1/4 oz. pos. This helped some but still ball got squirrelly with different surfaces.

Since that time many have said make sure the HART is further down away from the thumb into your track. NM evidently lowers most players tracks.

It's a live and learn situation and I was one of the first to drill one after a few others sucesses with the ball. Knowing what I know now I would have drilled it differently. But, my main problem with Hammer is that they did not recall or replace ALL of the balls that had that much misalignment. 1/2" no problem but large amounts over an 1" is too much in the manufacturer of this ball. Plus Hammer at the time is marketing this ball as an easy to drill ball. I don't see it any less intensive than any ball and probably more for the driller to really get a good reaction. My ball may have worked well for a lefty not me a righty.

My stats. are in profile and my driller is not a novice one of the best in my area and state.

--------------------
Scott

First and foremost....Great bowling WALLSHOT.

Now, Scott.....

I just looked at your profile:
quote:
I track slightly lower than most more of a 5/8ths roll.

Now from your post:
quote:
Hart 1" left of my thumb.

Now from the NM drilling instructions:
quote:
HART Placement: Place HART in the ball track; ref: http://hammerbowling.com/tech_info/detail.php?drilling=Drilling%20Instructions%208

Ok, now based on all of these items, I can deduce that the problem with your NM had absolutely nothing to do with the "misaligned" CG, but the fact that your HART was no where near your track. If you "track lower than most" and you use a "5/8ths roll", there is no way that the HART made it into your track.

How do I know this? I drilled one with the HART 1" left of my thumb, and in my track I thought, but it missed the track to the high side, and I have a PAP of 5 1/4"R, 1/8"UP, which is NOT a low track.....you know what? It rolled bad.

I drilled another with the HART 2.5" from my thumb and into the 3rd/4th flare ring and the ball is an absolute BEAST!

So, I hate to rain on your, and your ball driller's, parade but the problem was with the layout and not the ball.

Also, there is no need for HAMMER to "recall or replace ALL of the balls that had that much misalignment".

Yes, I agree that the ball would have been easier to layout, and probably better suited for a lefty, but you should have realized that prior to drilling.

**Scott, this is not an attack on you, so please don't take it that way. There are so many people that have the same "ideas" that you have, but they don't realize that thinking is not the true reasoning behind the ball reaction. I am just trying to explain that, through using your example. The NM was designed, IMO, to give driller's an easy way to get a strong asym reaction without all of the MB nonsense. The driller just must make sure to lay it out right.

Sorry for the rant, but I have been a member, and recently lurking, for a long time here, and as many of you know I am a DIE HARD HAMMER guy, and I can't stand it when someone believes that Brian Graham, or Hammer, didn't do something they should have.

--------------------
Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
'06-'07 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"

http://www.hammerbowling.com/hammertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2

--------------------
Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
'06-'07 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"

http://www.hammerbowling.com/hammertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2

laufaye · « **Reply #18 on:** January 11, 2007, 10:12:51 AM »

quote:
Simply put the ball on a determinator and it will locate the mass bias. If you can manage to find a 0-1 pin or maybe an x out with the cg to the side you need it to be on and spin it, you can drill it like other asymetrical balls. The problem I have seen with the ball is it is not adjustable enough. Surface is an ok adjustment, but when it is on a challanging condition and you may need to make a weight hole adjustment to get the core to read the pattern when you need it to, it is difficult to do. Very good ball on league patterns though.
--------------------
Rob Herman
Ten in The Pit Pro Shop
Allentown and Wind Gap, PA

10NDPIT,
Have you put the NM on a DeTerminator yet? and did it spin to the Hart or any where else?

I have a Determinater and spun the NM, it spun to the HART as I remember but not 100% sure now, cos I do not have a NM in the shop right now and cannot re-confirm, but I think I remember it spun to the Hart last time I spin one.

Jesse, please confire that, if no I will order another NM just to spin it. So far I understand what you say but just need too confirm this spinning issue.
rob@teninthepitproshop.com

Turbo Grips Staff

--------------------
Laufaye

pjr300 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:38:08 PM »

I used to understand ball physics and layouts until I read this thread. Ouch!

--------------------
pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World

specs and transaction record (positive and negative) in my profile

phoenixheat · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2007, 09:42:36 AM »

well... it's a different type of core...
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*** KEEP YOUR THUMB IN THE HOLE!***

Edited on 2/22/2007 10:40 AM

laufaye · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:46:30 PM »

quote:
well... it's a different type of core...
--------------------
*** KEEP YOUR THUMB IN THE HOLE!***

Edited on 2/22/2007 10:40 AM

Its not different kind of core, just marked differently on the ball.
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Laufaye

Author Topic: No Mercy & HART core (Read 5153 times)

RyanRPS

No Mercy & HART core

anotherwindup

Re: No Mercy & HART core

anotherwindup

Re: No Mercy & HART core

laufaye

Re: No Mercy & HART core

pjr300

Re: No Mercy & HART core

phoenixheat

Re: No Mercy & HART core

laufaye

Re: No Mercy & HART core