BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: FrontTwelv on December 02, 2008, 12:38:27 PM
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my specs...
5 1/8 over, 1/8 up axis; medium to high rev rate, ~16mph ball speed.
drilled this piece with the #3 drilling (medium arc). the pin is right over ring finger and the hart is just right of thumb hole. the ball so so straight, straighter than my Big Hit. the weird thing is, the flairing of the ball doesn't migrate left with each ring, it bowties around the thumbhole and migrates over the finger holes. what gives?
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
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Isn't the Heart supposed to be on your track side? Or am I thinking of the Beat'n only?
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
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You are correct CBB. The HART placed right of thumb would be (depending on your PAP of course) somwhat like a 40* layout on a normal mass bias ball.
Drilling the No mercy is somewhat of a mystical adventure.
I just got my third one last week and it's been great! The first two did not perform that well, and it's all because the MB was only about 1" to 1.75" left of thumb. The ball works best when the HART is placed in the second flare ring.... for me, about 2.5" left of thumb.
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
specs and transaction record (positive and negative) in my profile
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The actual MB on the NO MERCY is something like 6 3/4" right of the HART for a right hander and opposite for a left hander.
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the hart is the intermediate mass bias,measure 6-3/4" right of the heart and thats the mass bias.they used the inter.M.B. to off set the High M.B. so you could drill the ball strong and keep the C.G.with in 1"of grip center and not need a X hole.this was to show USBC they could easily set up a strong ball with a strong lay out and still comply with the proposed rule of c.g. in center and no use of an X hole.
the No Mercy was a great ball but confuseing to alot and that became the end of that.
FT,are you a lefty or do you like the M.B past your val?if your a righty then the ball is probably not going to back end much,and I have no idea how to drill up a NoMercy for a lefty.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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righty...
now this is a layout that a tour guy I regularly speak with gave to me. This is no means a standard drill and I realize it. I understand the hart should be as left as possible and the MB is around 6 3/4" right of hart position. I just would like to know why the track backs up, not a discussion of how i drilled it incorrectly.
Edited on 12/6/2008 5:06 PM
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quote:
righty now this is a layout that a tour guy i regularly speak with gave to me (not saying any names) but it wasn't layed out with standard specs. I understand the hart should be as left as possible and the MB is around 6 3/4" right of hard position. I just would liek to know why the track backs up, not a discussion of how i drilled it incorrectly.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
if you have a pic it might be easier to see exactly what is going on..
but the way you have described it.. the actual mass bias is probably beyond your val and above your pap. If this is the case .. it would make sense why the ball is backing up.. the MB or Preferred spin axis is 180 deg from a normal layout in relation to the pap. Again pictures would be more helpful
did the guy give you this layout specifically for the No Mercy or just for a typical Asymmetrical ball.. of which the no isn't.
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righty now this is a layout that a tour guy i regularly speak with gave to me (not saying any names) but it wasn't layed out with standard specs. I understand the hart should be as left as possible and the MB is around 6 3/4" right of hard position. I just would liek to know why the track backs up, not a discussion of how i drilled it incorrectly.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
if you have a pic it might be easier to see exactly what is going on..
but the way you have described it.. the actual mass bias is probably beyond your val and above your pap. If this is the case .. it would make sense why the ball is backing up.. the MB or Preferred spin axis is 180 deg from a normal layout in relation to the pap. Again pictures would be more helpful
did the guy give you this layout specifically for the No Mercy or just for a typical Asymmetrical ball.. of which the no isn't.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Did you mean, did the driller READ the drill sheet for this ball before he drilled it for you. Or did he attend a seminar?
You do know that " real ball drillers never have to read drill sheets"
Yes, that is true, some coal miners from Pa. told me that once. "real ball drillers don't have to read the drill sheets"
Idiots!!!!!
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jls
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righty now this is a layout that a tour guy i regularly speak with gave to me (not saying any names) but it wasn't layed out with standard specs. I understand the hart should be as left as possible and the MB is around 6 3/4" right of hard position. I just would liek to know why the track backs up, not a discussion of how i drilled it incorrectly.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
if you have a pic it might be easier to see exactly what is going on..
but the way you have described it.. the actual mass bias is probably beyond your val and above your pap. If this is the case .. it would make sense why the ball is backing up.. the MB or Preferred spin axis is 180 deg from a normal layout in relation to the pap. Again pictures would be more helpful
did the guy give you this layout specifically for the No Mercy or just for a typical Asymmetrical ball.. of which the no isn't.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Did you mean, did the driller READ the drill sheet for this ball before he drilled it for you. Or did he attend a seminar?
You do know that " real ball drillers never have to read drill sheets"
Yes, that is true, some coal miners from Pa. told me that once. "real ball drillers don't have to read the drill sheets"
Idiots!!!!!
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jls
haha.. they do when a company tries to deliver a new ball with a "kind of" revolutionary new idea and then the company looks like they put out shi**y balls cause some people can't see the huge red stop sign on top of the box.. and the bright flier in the box .. and the drill sheet that all say that the ball is not like normal balls..
Hammer should be pissed.. they put in a ton of time and money developing the ball. and then new manufacturing processes to produce and place the core... and they got nothing but a raw deal out of it.. good thing for the widow line
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Hammer/Ebonite did a ton of work to prove to usbc that they can engineer a ball that would get around the proposed c.g./x hole rule and came up with a great ball that half the bowling world just could not grip.
as for Front Twelv....sounds like you have the strong MassBias placed past your val, that should throw your track off....Huh?
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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Hammer/Ebonite did a ton of work to prove to usbc that they can engineer a ball that would get around the proposed c.g./x hole rule and came up with a great ball that half the bowling world just could not grip.
as for Front Twelv....sounds like you have the strong MassBias placed past your val, that should throw your track off....Huh?
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The harder I try the harder they fall
My no mercy beat'n was was drilled correctly in terms of the HART but the pin was 2 1/4 inches from the PAP.. so the ball didn't do anything but rev early and go straight. I was to get another no mercy series ball and drill it correctly..
Which is the one to go with .. original, beat'n or whup'n/hazzard..
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I only had a few originals,so that would be my pic.I had one with the pin 4"from pap and the hart left of thumb by 1/2" and it was just a hard smooth roll with not much backend but was a good ball for long flat heavy patterns.I punched up another with 4 1/2"pin to pap and the hart in the 3-4 track ring area and it was a very strong mid lane hook with a big backend but still had a hard time with drying heads @ 4000 abralon.I was going to try another with a 5-51/2" pin and the hart in the track area but I moved on to other stuff instead.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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I only had a few originals,so that would be my pic.I had one with the pin 4"from pap and the hart left of thumb by 1/2" and it was just a hard smooth roll with not much backend but was a good ball for long flat heavy patterns.I punched up another with 4 1/2"pin to pap and the hart in the 3-4 track ring area and it was a very strong mid lane hook with a big backend but still had a hard time with drying heads @ 4000 abralon.I was going to try another with a 5-51/2" pin and the hart in the track area but I moved on to other stuff instead.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
so would you say the ball worked better with the hart in the 3rd or 4th flare ring vs the 1st one? .. I guess that would put the actual mb angle around maybe 50 to 60 deg.. vs 25 to 30.. (just a guess)
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yes,3-4 ring area is golden!http://www.putfile.com/pic/4207157
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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yes,3-4 ring area is golden!http://www.putfile.com/pic/4207157
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The harder I try the harder they fall
no weight hole needed..
what would the ball do if you moved the pin up higher and to the right.. closer to the val.. keeping the pin to pap the same distance..
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nope no wt.hole needed but yes the pin should have been placed higher by about an inch but thats how that one got laid out.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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nope no wt.hole needed but yes the pin should have been placed higher by about an inch but thats how that one got laid out.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
I have heard pin up high.. hart in third or 4th ring gives you a super sick hook and backend..
you have the no mercy and beat'n ??
Edited on 12/3/2008 7:37 PM
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no more hammers at the moment,go for the pin high and hart in the 3-4 ring area and the ball will be a back end monster for sure.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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nope no wt.hole needed but yes the pin should have been placed higher by about an inch but thats how that one got laid out.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
I have heard pin up high.. hart in third or 4th ring gives you a super sick hook and backend..
you have the no mercy and beat'n ??
Edited on 12/3/2008 7:37 PM
This is true. My NM is drilled, 5 1/2" pin to PAP, Pin 1" from my Val and the hart placed in the 3rd flare of my track, this ball is a monster on the back end. Pin way above ring finger, Cg left of center grip and hart 3rd flare line. And yes I am right handed.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Hammer Team Member
Hammer Message Board Moderator
www.hammerbowling.com
www.hammerstuff.com
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nope no wt.hole needed but yes the pin should have been placed higher by about an inch but thats how that one got laid out.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
I have heard pin up high.. hart in third or 4th ring gives you a super sick hook and backend..
you have the no mercy and beat'n ??
Edited on 12/3/2008 7:37 PM
This is true. My NM is drilled, 5 1/2" pin to PAP, Pin 1" from my Val and the hart placed in the 3rd flare of my track, this ball is a monster on the back end. Pin way above ring finger, Cg left of center grip and hart 3rd flare line. And yes I am right handed.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Hammer Team Member
Hammer Message Board Moderator
www.hammerbowling.com
www.hammerstuff.com
yeah.. your the guy I heard it from... HAAH!!
from the Hammer Board
What's up?
I think I asked you this before but forgot..
Do you have to have super revs to get this layout to work..
I'm 350 to 475.. somewhere in there.
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nope no wt.hole needed but yes the pin should have been placed higher by about an inch but thats how that one got laid out.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
I have heard pin up high.. hart in third or 4th ring gives you a super sick hook and backend..
you have the no mercy and beat'n ??
Edited on 12/3/2008 7:37 PM
Your rev rate will work just fine becausae mine is around the same
This is true. My NM is drilled, 5 1/2" pin to PAP, Pin 1" from my Val and the hart placed in the 3rd flare of my track, this ball is a monster on the back end. Pin way above ring finger, Cg left of center grip and hart 3rd flare line. And yes I am right handed.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Hammer Team Member
Hammer Message Board Moderator
www.hammerbowling.com
www.hammerstuff.com
yeah.. your the guy I heard it from... HAAH!!
from the Hammer Board
What's up?
I think I asked you this before but forgot..
Do you have to have super revs to get this layout to work..
I'm 350 to 475.. somewhere in there.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Hammer Team Member
Hammer Message Board Moderator
www.hammerbowling.com
www.hammerstuff.com
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sorry that this thread got hijacked somewhat but we are talking about drilling up no mercy's so...
I've always wanted to try this 5 1/2" pin to pap layout 1" from val.m.b.3 1/2"-4 1/2"from pap.do I understand correctly that palceing the pin in this matter would delay the flare for the backend and then give you a heavy roll/flip reaction?
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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sorry that this thread got hijacked somewhat but we are talking about drilling up no mercy's so...
I've always wanted to try this 5 1/2" pin to pap layout 1" from val.m.b.3 1/2"-4 1/2"from pap.do I understand correctly that palceing the pin in this matter would delay the flare for the backend and then give you a heavy roll/flip reaction?
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The harder I try the harder they fall
I'll let Bubba respond .. but just make sure you are talking about the actual Mass Bias and not the HART
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sorry that this thread got hijacked somewhat but we are talking about drilling up no mercy's so...
I've always wanted to try this 5 1/2" pin to pap layout 1" from val.m.b.3 1/2"-4 1/2"from pap.do I understand correctly that palceing the pin in this matter would delay the flare for the backend and then give you a heavy roll/flip reaction?
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The harder I try the harder they fall
I'll let Bubba respond .. but just make sure you are talking about the actual Mass Bias and not the HART
the HART is not the Mass Bias so yes.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
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now from what i can understand, the HART marks the 'negative' MB position correct?
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
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now from what i can understand, the HART marks the 'negative' MB position correct?
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
I am still trying to find out what the mb position means..
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the MB basically marks the flip block on the bottom of most balls. It technically marks the position of the ball with the largest weight difference from the pin.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
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http://www.morichbowling.com/Determinator/InfoSheet.htm
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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
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thanks gazoo! this still doesn't really explain why, i guess i'll just scuff it and keep it for a rainy day.
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Drew Jordan
Columbus, OH
Ebonite | Brunswick
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I've actually been talking to alot of people about it and about what makes a bowling ball do what it does..
the MB mark on the ball is the high rg axis. When the ball spins about this axis the most weight is to the outside of the ball. On a determinator that has a constant force applied a ball will spin to this axis...
now the real world...
i have no idea what it does for a bowling ball going down a lane..
cause a balls axis will migrate along a path that is close to or a little bit lower than its initial rg. A ball without any added force can not move to a higher rg axis.
The ball will not spin to this MB spot.. or PSA prefered spin axis.
check out the bowl.com axis migration study. They put a mb/psa right in the what would be the path of the axis on a bowling ball.. thinking the ball should spin to this prefered axis since it is going that direction and it is so close.. what happened.. it moved the path of the axis up higher and it went past the PSA and not even through it..
We will agree that the mb/psa placement does do something to the reaction of the ball.. I am just trying to find out what now..