Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 28, 2008, 02:49:21 PM
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 28, 2008, 11:27:25 PM
Post by: bluerrpilot on February 29, 2008, 07:46:36 AM
quote:
I want these balls to flare so im thinking either a 2-3 inch pin? That sound reasonable?
pin to cg distance has nothing to do with how much the ball will flare
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Team HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 09:38:09 AM
Post by: CoachJim on February 29, 2008, 09:45:59 AM
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 12:10:27 PM
Post by: chitown on February 29, 2008, 12:56:37 PM
quote:
Ok i am still confused over all of this and I'm sorry. Basically, i want to get a BW bite and use it as my medium heavy ball and it will fit under my hammer raw anger which is the heavy oiler. I want the ball to be a monster and was planning on going by the aggressive drilling instructions on hammer's website, drilling #3 or #5. I also want the BW Pearl, which i will be using as my medium oil ball, and will be below the Bite in the arsenal. Same thing, i want it to be aggressive. I am a tweener you could say, i throw around 16 mph. I like to play in the middle, throw it right, and have it come back to the pocket. I hope this helps at all with what kind of pin size i should be looking at. Thanks for responding, i really do appreciate it.
Here's why I think your getting confused. When you buy a bowling ball they will come with specs. These specs are "TOP WEIGHT" and "PIN OUT" distance. The "PIN OUT" distance is not the same thing as drilling the ball with the PIN x# of inches from your PAP! "PIN OUT" distance is the distance between the PIN and CG which is measured in inches.
If you buy a bowling ball and it has a small "PIN OUT" distance of like 1-2" then it will be a little more difficult to drill the ball with the PIN above the fingers because of the static weights.
I hope this makes a little bit of sense to you?
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 01:23:38 PM
Post by: chitown on February 29, 2008, 01:44:09 PM
quote:
yes it is beginning to make more sense. So if you were in my shoes, with the information i have provided, would you suggest going with a 2-3 inch pin?
I prefer to buy bowling balls with 3 to 4" pin out distances. I only use pin above the fingers type layouts. I never use pin below the fingers. If your wanting to have your bowling balls laid out with the pin below the fingers then a shorter "pin out distance" would be better. If your planning to use pin above the fingers type layouts then it's better to have longer "pin out distances".
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 02:33:55 PM
Post by: azguy on February 29, 2008, 02:39:34 PM
Pin below = pin below fingers
Pin can also be equal to or just to the right (or left for a lefty) of the fingers.
Point here, if you order a 1-2 or 2-3 inch pin distance, you MAY be limiting your drill where a 3-4 inch pin distance does not limit your drill unless you already plan on putting the pin under the fingers, then go with a 2-3 inch pin.
JMO
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 03:03:49 PM
Post by: bluerrpilot on February 29, 2008, 03:17:51 PM
quote:
let me rephrase the question, if pin is above fingers, how does it differ from pin below fingers reaction wise? are there ideal difference for different players?
The farther you move the pin from the grip center, or the closer to VAL, the faster it responds to friction.
Longer distance from GC to Pin = sharp, angular, fast response to friction
Shorter distance from GC to Pin = smooth, arcy, slower response to friction
--------------------
Team HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 03:27:26 PM
Post by: chitown on February 29, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
quote:
so a longer pin will be more angular?
I know this can be hard to understand for someone who doesn't know much about ball layouts.
Do you know what a PIN is?
Do you currently own a bowling ball?
Where is the PIN located on your bowling ball? Is the pin next to the ring finger? Is the pin above the ring finger? Is the pin below the ring finger ect... ?
I think it will be easier to explain this too you if we had an idea of what you do know about bowling ball layouts.
Post by: bluerrpilot on February 29, 2008, 05:55:57 PM
quote:
so a longer pin will be more angular?
Here is 2 different Dooms both have the same pin to pap distance and the same pin to cg distance.(3") The cross marks the grip center. You can see how far the pin is from those centers. The farther from that center, the more angular off the spot.
http://members.cox.net/bluerrpilot/doom.JPG
http://members.cox.net/bluerrpilot/doom2.JPG
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Team HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
Edited on 2/29/2008 6:56 PM
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 05:57:26 PM
Post by: chitown on February 29, 2008, 06:13:16 PM
quote:
i know what a pin is... i know where it is located.. i own many bowling balls. I have one pin under, one pin to the right, etc... i only want to know why people put them under and why people put them over.. you are oversimplifying my lack of understanding. please tell me what a pin over will do reaction wise, and what a pin under will do reaction wise.....
Pin above the fingers creates more length and is more angular off the spot.
Pin below the fingers creates an earlier roll and is smoother off the spot.
If you look at the pics bluerrpilot showed of his DOOMS, the pin above the ring finger should get a tad bit more length and have a more angular back end.
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 06:33:21 PM
Post by: chitown on February 29, 2008, 07:00:57 PM
quote:
what would you suggest for the bite and the pearl? Pin above? My Raw Anger is Pin Below right now.
How do you like the Anger's reaction?
There's many different ways to build an arsenal. Every bowler has there own way of doing things based on their ball roll and ball track. So it's tough to give you advice on how to layout your new bowling balls.
A safe philosophy is to use the same pin location on all your equipment and just let the different cover and cores separate the reactions. Or you could use the other philosophy of drilling each ball different. It's really up to you.
I only use pin up layouts on every ball in my arsenal. I used to keep the same pin location on every single ball in my arsenal. I would only change the CG location and add or not add a balance hole. I basically just let the cover and cores separate the reactions between the different balls. However, my philosophy has changed a small amount. I still only use pin up layouts but have a PIN location window of 4" to 5.5" from my pap. I just keep the PIN above the finger to pap line and keep within that window. I also have learned to keep the MB close to my thumb on asymmetrical equipment.
Hope this helps.
Post by: jodyk24 on February 29, 2008, 07:42:38 PM
What chitown is telling you is correct. I am glad he spoke up because I did not want to get into a hornet's nest with anybody. I had a Black Widow Pearl drilled for my wife several months ago with the pin between and above the fingers. With slower ball speed this gives good length and good pop on the backend for her. With higher ball speed I would still keep the pin above the fingers. Her ball had a 2-3 inch pin before drill. I like a 3" pin to make sure I am above the fingers if needed and easy for the driller also. The Bite is going to hook with the pin above the fingers on a THS beleive me.
jodyk24
[http://members.aol.com/jkw1041/blackwidow.jpg]
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 09:40:32 PM
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h95/bigdawgwill44/0229082028-1.jpg
Post by: VIXIV on February 29, 2008, 10:07:29 PM
quote:
Have a look at this:
http://marketing.lanemasters.com/LM_Ball%20Drilling%20Instructions.pdf
If their site didn't have all that flash going on, I'd have searched their site directly. Anyway, it gives a pretty understandable explanation about what type of reactions you'd expect given where the pin is placed on the ball. Hope that helps.
Post by: Juggernaut on February 29, 2008, 10:14:46 PM
Stop it, your making my head hurt.bigdawgwill44,
You asked a question that, in all fairness, SOUNDED simple enough, but somewhere the train of simplicity seems to have jumped the tracks.
Your question was: I want the balls to flare so I'm thinking either a 2-3 pin? That sound reasonable?
The answer is: Yes, that sounds reasonable. But, you have to decide what you are looking to get from the balls for yourself.
You ask a lot of questions about pin above, pin below. Should I this or should I that? Nobody knows for sure exactly what you are looking for, but, given the nature of the balls you listed, if you drilled them exactly like your anger, I think the bite would be almost as early and nearly as strong as the anger ( if not stronger ) and the pearl would be longer, but stronger on the backends ( as long as they were clean ).
As far as the pin out goes, that is just a personal decision. A short pin makes it easier to drill a pin under without getting a lot of thumb weight because with the shorter pin length allows you to put the pin under and still leave the cg on the midline.
A longer pin length is easier to drill a pin above because it allows you to move the pin up without getting excess finger weight. If you use a short pin length to drill a pin above, the cg will be closer to the finger holes and may cause excessive finger weight, depending on the starting topweight of the ball.
It isn't the initial pin length that determines the flare potential, it is the pin to pap length that the drilling allows for. You can make a ball that has a 1 inch pin out, or a 5 inch pin out, flare a ton, if you put it in the right place.
Like a man told me the other day. Drilling is part art, part science, part luck, and part black magic.
Bon Apetite
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What did you expect, something PROFOUND?
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on February 29, 2008, 10:40:30 PM
Post by: Matt Fortney on February 29, 2008, 10:45:54 PM
Matt
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Hammer Pride Staff Member
http://www.hammerbowling.com
http://www.hammerstuff.com
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer"
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on March 01, 2008, 01:02:31 PM
Post by: azguy on March 01, 2008, 01:19:15 PM
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com
Post by: fluff33 on March 01, 2008, 01:47:09 PM
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on March 01, 2008, 02:12:31 PM
Post by: Gazoo on March 01, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
Post by: bigdawgwill44 on March 01, 2008, 04:03:08 PM