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Author Topic: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?  (Read 6972 times)

dpunky

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Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« on: May 12, 2005, 01:13:58 AM »
For all you Hammer bowlers:

If you had the chance to pick a pro bowler to join the Hammer pro staff for next season, who would it be?

If I could choose, I would have Walter Ray Williams Jr. on the staff

 

TJFreaky24

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2005, 10:57:37 AM »
quote:
Bowlers need a reality check. I heard in a conversation at my center that they buy balls from watching the TV shows.  If this was true, why isn't which ever brand WRIII's brand #1?  Why is Storm still in business after their staff players didn't have a great year? Do you buy Columbia balls because Chris Barnes bowled well this year?  
I don't buy balls they use on TV because same ball for me will not react like theirs, that's why they are PROS.  I buy balls from watching other local house bowlers use their equipment.  This way I can best judge how good the balls are.  If the local guy can make it look good then it's a good ball.
If we really want to see which balls are the best, no manufacture should pay or give free balls or even incentives.  Let the bowlers use whatever they want.



Just one question DANR...who exactly is Walter Ray III?
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StormRoto

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2005, 11:11:00 AM »
Question is guys what if you were on Hammer's staff for 2 years and you was approach by Morich to switch companies what would you do ????


dpunky

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2005, 02:49:32 PM »
quote:
punky,
Are you comparing bowling to basketball?  Do you have any idea the difference in customer base your referring to?  Obviously you're not in the corporate world because you would understand.  If you know someone who's a corporate guy and ask them the same question, are por bowlers worth it?  Better yet, ask a honest opinion from the higher ups at the ball companies.  Just because you can type on the site doesn't mean you know anything about the business world.



DanR,

First of all, you have no clue what I do to make any assumptions of my profession or experiences...or further more my education.  Let me give you the 411.  I did my undergraduate studies at George Washington University through their Business School, earning a Bachelor of Business Adminstration in Information Systems.  Within my Business School program, I took advertising, marketing, and communication classes.  On top of that, I interned at corporations where I had to did web advertising and database marketing.  I've worked at a non-profit association where we had to target nitch markets of people for membership.  And I currently work at a company where we have to market out information technology and management services to multi-million dollar corporate and government clients.  So if I don't have enough experience, then I must be responding to a CEO of a major billion dollar corporation.

Alright...you want an example of current advertising that is not necessarily going to the "tradtional serious bowler", here are two examples of ads that are currently in American Bowler (the magazine ABC members get quarterly).  

The first one is from Ebonite.  It's for the XXCel. It features a guy's face with his eyes staring straight out at you with the words: "I live for the score. The pickup. The action.  The sound of silence from my opponent.  I live for the line, die by the break, and pray for more important things than a lucky fall.  I live for the game that's perfect.  And trading in my soul for three more strikes in the tenth is not out of the question.  I live for the moment when I'm back in the house.  Because I live to bowl and I bowl to win."  There are no numbers or stats on this ball, something that is necessary if you were targeting this to the "traditional serious bowler" and not the mainstream.  This ad reminds me of a gatorade ad/commercial and the Madden Live video game ads/commericals for video games.

The second ad is from Hammer.  It's for the Big Deal.  It features a tough looking guy with a tattoo on his left arm with the words: "You will offend someone.  Deal with it."  Again, this ad contains no numbers or stats about this ball.  This is an ad for the mainstream bowler, not the serious one.  This is something that you would see as, oddly enough, a BASKETBALL AD!!!!

DanR, if you've taken marketing, advertising, and/or persuation classes, as I have, you would know that advertising and marketing departments of major corporations use multiple means to get their products publicized to different groups of customers.  Bowling companies are no different.  Bowling companies NEVER USE ONE WAY OF MARKETING OR ADVERTISING TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT!!!!  Most of their marketing teams are a blend of people that have worked in other corporations or been in the sport of bowling. The two ads that I featured here were probably targeted to the mainstream bowler.  Ads that have included stats (which are featured on the companies website, pro shops, and bowling centers) are targeted to the serious bowler.  Product placement on pro bowlers, from the balls that they use on the telecast.... and the bowling shoes that they wear, are all marketing ideas by the bowling company.  Let me guess, but I would say that that is also done in major sports like football, BASKETBALL, and baseball.  It may not be consciously apparent to you, but product association with a player has a subconscious effect to influence on certain people to buy that product (If you've ever taken a communications course like PERSUASION through you're university's communications department, you would understand).  DanR, the people that you may see bowling in your center may be amateur staff members of bowling companies.  They may be tester of new bowling products, but by the fact that they are bowling with the newest bowling equipment they are influencing you.....that is a form of advertising!!!!!!

WOW...I hope that I made my point across to the people reading this feed that advertising is done by multiple means to multiple groups of people.  DanR, let me answer your first two questions:
(1) Have you asked a corporate guy if pro bowlers are worth it?
Yes, I have corporate guys that I bowl with in league and in open play and they definitely agree to some extent.  
(2) Have you asked the ball companies for their honest opinion?
Yes, I constantly communicate with the various ball companies.  They give me real good feedback.  I would encourage you to ask them if it is worth it to have pros on their staff.  Maybe, you should look at the sales figures for Brunswick, Storm, C300, Ebonite/Hammer and match that up against MoRich and Lane #1.  

If someone wants to chime in on DanR's respone, feel free.  I'd like to hear feedback on this.

When I started this feed, my original intent was to see which pros you would want on Hammer's staff.  I had no idea it would morph to this!!!

dpunky

DanR

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2005, 11:38:44 PM »
punky,
If you have all this side inside info from the manufactures, tell me what you would offer the top pro bowlers on tour?  Are they worth $2K per month, $4K per month, $6K per month, $8K per month, $10K per month?  Why stop there, give them 200K per year since they the major factor in balls sales?  
What I'm saying is what are the pros worth using their products?  Do you remember the MVP line from Brunswick?  They had balls from Aulby, WRIII and Parker Bohn.  How long were these balls in the market for?  Aulby was the best of the three.  Pro names don't sell balls.  Why are the number of ProAM not increasing?  I remember they had to cancell a few of them because the turn out was so bad.
Go ask your pro shop or the local distributor because NO bowler used the Morich Weapon of Mass Bias on TV and it was one of the hottest balls for awhile.  Nothing fancy but it performed, the ball hoooked alot.  Goes to prove that performance will out sell a pro bowlers using a bad product.  
Do you think the pros will agree to a contract based on number of balls sold?
In perspective, X-Game stars make 10 - 100 times what pro bowlers get and they're worth it because of the larger audience. For your info, the number of bowlers are on the DECLINE, just look at your leagues.  
I'm done on this subject

dpunky

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2005, 06:00:58 AM »
quote:
punky,
If you have all this side inside info from the manufactures, tell me what you would offer the top pro bowlers on tour?  Are they worth $2K per month, $4K per month, $6K per month, $8K per month, $10K per month?  Why stop there, give them 200K per year since they the major factor in balls sales?  
What I'm saying is what are the pros worth using their products?  Do you remember the MVP line from Brunswick?  They had balls from Aulby, WRIII and Parker Bohn.  How long were these balls in the market for?  Aulby was the best of the three.  Pro names don't sell balls.  Why are the number of ProAM not increasing?  I remember they had to cancell a few of them because the turn out was so bad.
Go ask your pro shop or the local distributor because NO bowler used the Morich Weapon of Mass Bias on TV and it was one of the hottest balls for awhile.  Nothing fancy but it performed, the ball hoooked alot.  Goes to prove that performance will out sell a pro bowlers using a bad product.  
Do you think the pros will agree to a contract based on number of balls sold?
In perspective, X-Game stars make 10 - 100 times what pro bowlers get and they're worth it because of the larger audience. For your info, the number of bowlers are on the DECLINE, just look at your leagues.  
I'm done on this subject


DanR,

Done already on this subject THAT YOU CREATED?  I was just getting started Just kidding with you!!!  Anyways....you have some good questions in this reply.  
(1) What would I pay a pro bowler on tour?  That all depends on how involoved I want the particular pro in the bowling company.  If I wanted a pro to be directly involoved in the research/development, testing, marketing (ads, commercials, exclusive use, etc.), I would pay them more than a pro that does not have a contract with a company and is only using the bowling equipment on TV.  Free agents like Walter Ray Williams Jr. are paid a one time fee of $10k to $20k by a bowling company to use their equipment on TV.  Using a sliding scale, I believe pros that are more involved in the company would make more...like Chris Barnes or Parker Bohn III.  Maybe they make $80k or $100k per year.
(2) Are these pros worth it?  It all depends on how you utilize them.  Bowling companies, like others, take chances by associating bowling products with pros.  Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't.  Failures do include Brunswick's MVP line (Good Example).  But I think bowling companies have found the right mix by just having pros using the product on TV.  Pro names alone don't sell balls........but wins by a pro using the bowling product sells bowling balls.  There are definitely pros and cons for paying athletes in general the money you pay them.  But that would take too long to go into.  If you want a clearer result, look at the companies financial balance sheets to see if they lost money.
(3) MoRich Weapon of Mass Bias outsold all other balls in a pro shop? The WMB was a good selling bowling ball.  But take a close look at the balls on your pro shop.  How many MoRich bowling balls do they offer in comparison to Brusnswick, Storm, Columbia 300, Track, AMF, Ebonite, Hammer.  I bet for every one MoRich ball, Storm, for example, offers three balls.  The bigger companies offer more variety balls to sell to a wider variety of bowlers.  They are going for a bigger market share than for a niche market that MoRich and Lane#1 goes for.  In the bowling industry, like other industries, market share counts.  I believe that MoRich and Lane#1 are doing very well in their sales.  But they do wish that they had the number of sales that Brunswick and Storm have since they have more of the market share.
(4) Bowling is in a decline.  YES I can see that clearly.  I just had my bowling center close because of rising leased space costs.  I do see the decline on league members and tournament participants.  That's why bowling must look outside the box.  Remember, the PBA almost went under in the mid 90s if it wasn't for a former Microsoft exec who bought the PBA and overhalled it and turned it to the success it is today.  How did he do it, by looking outside the box and doing things non-traditionally (better graphics, music, etc) without offending the bowling purist.  Storm is doing this by promoting their scents on balls.  They got some good PR by making it to Good Morning America and promoting their balls for their scent to a non bowling market.  I don't remember the last time a bowling company got some much press for a ball.  I praise companies efforts to try to expand their markets.  It's not an easy effort, but it's a must if you're trying to keep the sport of bowling alive.  You can't merely focus on niche market to keep bowling growing.  Expansion is the key.

I promote the sport of bowling in my office full of non bowlers, and to my friends.  It maybe a small effort on my part.  But if that translates them to go to a bowling to have fun at least, then I have done my part.  I encourage you to do the same.

By the way DanR........If you had the chance to pick a pro bowler to join the Hammer pro staff for next season, who would it be?

dpunky

dpunky

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2005, 12:43:16 PM »
quote:
punky,
Are you comparing bowling to basketball?  Do you have any idea the difference in customer base your referring to?  Obviously you're not in the corporate world because you would understand.  If you know someone who's a corporate guy and ask them the same question, are por bowlers worth it?  Better yet, ask a honest opinion from the higher ups at the ball companies.  Just because you can type on the site doesn't mean you know anything about the business world.



I also contacted Brian Graham from Hammer to get his take on PBA members on the pro staff.  Here's his response:

As one of the prominent brands in the bowling ball business, we place a
great deal of importance on the PBA to create exposure for our
products.
PBA players are the most recognizable faces in the sport of bowling,
and
the PBA provides an opportunity to get exposure on national television.
Typically, success on the Tour results in added credibility for the
product line and creates additional awareness for new products.  

The real value of the PBA is the creation of stars in the sport of
bowling that we can use at industry tradeshows and appearances.  The
PBA
provides the stage to showcase the best in bowling, and we support them
with their efforts.  While there is no way to measure the exact return
on our investment into the PBA, we do believe that there is an impact
to
the brand.

If you have additional questions, please contact me.

Brian Graham
Hammer Brand Manager
P.O. Box 746
Hopkinsville, KY 42240
Direct Line:  (270) 881-1234
Toll Free:  (800) 626-8350
bgraham@ebonite.com

TOON

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Re: Who would you want to join the Hammer pro staff?
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2005, 12:12:38 AM »
ME!!!  If I had the talent and time for the tour!!
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TOON
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TOON
Proud to be a Hammerhead!