Post by: absoluteisanidiot on February 27, 2009, 01:44:37 AM
Bowling related only..
All Sawheads go here and vote Dyanamo as Ball Of The Year it might be the best ball I've ever thrown.
Post by: Roy Munson on February 27, 2009, 10:29:55 AM
. . . I'm still tweaking the cover stock
. . . I just polished it with 3M Rubbing compound
. . . and we'll see how it reacts tonight
. . . You know this thread is going to be a troll bait
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Roy Munson: "Morning! I hope you don't mind, I got up a little early. So I took the liberty of milking your cow for you. Yeah, it took a little while to get her warmed up. She sure is a stubborn one. Then pow, all at once."
Mr. Boorg: "We don't have a cow. We have a bull."
***** Looking of Pearl Cherry C/2 *****
Edited on 2/27/2009 11:32 AM
Post by: jls on February 28, 2009, 07:54:14 AM
By actual vote, the HYROAD was the winner!!!! The VIRTUAL GRAVITY was 2nd, and the newly released Dynamo was 3rd.
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jls
Post by: Steven on February 28, 2009, 08:33:43 AM
quote:
Final results have been posted.
By actual vote, the HYROAD was the winner!!!! The VIRTUAL GRAVITY was 2nd, and the newly released Dynamo was 3rd.
jls: So the way 'Ball of the Year" is determined (in your mind) is a popularity contest?
I think you'd agree that numbers in the market don't necessarily translate to quality/performance. For several years various mid-range Honda's and Toyota's where best selling cars, but no-one would argue they were the best autos to be had.
Logic dictates "Ball of the Year" should follow the same path. Shouldn't it be best performing ball regardless of sales and market share??
Post by: JustRico on February 28, 2009, 08:45:13 AM
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: Steven on February 28, 2009, 10:07:30 AM
As you know, proshops are businesses first, and pimps of 'real' balls of the year, second. There are several reasons for this:
1) A good portion of proshop operators are on ball company amateur staffs. Consciously (or not), they're going to push that manufacturers line first.
2) Proshops occasionally get 'deals' from their distributors for purchasing certain models (usually from the big guys) in quantity, which means they can offer a decent piece for $30-40 less than another ball that might be slightly higher performing. It's all about moving inventory, so we know which one will get visibility and shelf space.
It's not a secret that in the majority of proshops, there is more work (and less profit) involved in buying from the smaller companies. By extension, it's going to be difficult for those companies to get the sales to be considered 'ball of the year'.
Post by: bowlerdawg on February 28, 2009, 10:16:45 AM
its the most aggresive ball i have used from L1 ever
its like a ferrari imo
fast, sharp corners, and just plain sexy fun, but
my ball of the year from L1 has to go to the chainsaw
i have needed less aggresive for a while, but with more umph than plastic, and i got it w/ the c'saw
c'saw will get most of the action
is it as fun to use as the dynamo, no
but i play this game to win, and the c'saw give a better oppertunity to do that
jmo
later trolls, and you know who you are
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I'm your huckleberry
Edited on 2/28/2009 11:41 AM
Post by: jls on February 28, 2009, 10:33:16 AM
Now Obama was made President due to a popularity contest.<<<< Not good
And believe it or not, many times when a bowler sees others scoring well with a ball, they tend to buy it. Thus accounting for the huge sales of the Virtual and Hyroad.
If you would take the time Steven, may I call you Steven, you will notice that many members of the FOS voice their views on certain balls. And others notice this and then buy said ball. Pot calling the kettle black.
So I think Steven, you may be a little off base, again, with this "popularity" thing your trying to bring up.
People on this site, BR.COM were asked to vote for their choice for "ball of the year" they did. Now live with it, and move on.
BTW, the Dynamo came in a strong third, despite some saying it should not have been counted, for as we all know, except for B-Dawg, the Dynamo just came out in Jan. of 09, and the first know reviews by mankind were on 2-19-09. So therefore some people on BR.COM felt it should not have been in the voting for 2008. But that's their opinion!!!!
Us Sawheads feel it should be counted.
You all have a nice day now.
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jls
Post by: rockerbowler18 on February 28, 2009, 10:35:28 AM
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JAT Junior Amateur Tour
Robb's Pro Shops: Bakersfield, California
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Post by: JustRico on February 28, 2009, 10:42:45 AM
You are spinning this no differently.
You can say whatever you want, to discredit a certain ball, but what makes a ball a winner is not the company telling bowlers it's the number one ball. It's the bowlers using them. You can say the only reason why a ball sells in a shop, is do to either being on a staff or getting a deal, is poor to say the least. That is a lame excuse to discredit a well performing and selling bowling ball. Pro shop guys are generally going to sell what they know they can put in their bowlers hands and know will perform, at a good price. I do not know many shops that will recommend, in this day and age, a high dollar ball over a mid priced one.
Versatility is the key factor, a ball that will perform for a wider range of styles. Danger Zone, Red Sun Storm, Absolute Inferno, Black Widows, the Cell Solid and now the HyRoad.
AND Less we forget...IT'S FEBRUARY.
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: bowlerdawg on February 28, 2009, 10:43:12 AM
what a joke
i seen you get your dig in there jls, although i would have expected more quite honestly
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Steven on February 28, 2009, 11:04:56 AM
quote:
You can say whatever you want, to discredit a certain ball, but what makes a ball a winner is not the company telling bowlers it's the number one ball. It's the bowlers using them. You can say the only reason why a ball sells in a shop, is do to either being on a staff or getting a deal, is poor to say the least. That is a lame excuse to discredit a well performing and selling bowling ball.
Rico: Funny, I don't see anywhere in this thread where I 'discredited' a certain ball. I didn't mention any ball for that matter. And, please, tone down references to absolutes. I did not say the reasons I mentioned are the 'only' reason a ball sells in a shop. If you have to resort to extremes to make a point, you're reaching. The fact is that being on staff and having access to distributor deals are a factor in sales. Are you denying this??
quote:
Pro shop guys are generally going to sell what they know they can put in their bowlers hands and know will perform, at a good price. I do not know many shops that will recommend, in this day and age, a high dollar ball over a mid priced one.
No argument. In general, a proshop will put a good ball in a bowlers hand at a cheaper price than something that might be a little better but more expensive. But does that make the cheaper ball "Ball of the Year"?
Post by: JustRico on February 28, 2009, 11:19:06 AM
A ball will sell at a price, sooner or later. It just may take time before that ball gets to that point.
Do I think selling a lower priced ball at $250-299 is a value or makes that ball better-NO. Merely the ball company telling a bowler a ball is number one does not sell it. The bowlers that use it do. And the pro shop operator that sees it performs and has confidence in it will. Whether they get it at full price or at a deal. Plain and simple.
Versatility is what makes Ball of the Year. Not because it hooks more than another. The amount of bowlers that are able to compete with a certain piece consistantly andsuccessfully is what decides it. That is why the bowlers vote for it. Not the pro shops or distributors.
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Formerly BrunsRico
Edited on 2/28/2009 12:20 PM
Post by: jls on February 28, 2009, 11:32:45 AM
BTW, if you decide to do that, make sure you ask those that voted for Lane #1 balls, why???
Again, have a nice weekend.
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jls
Post by: gtkpr31 on February 28, 2009, 11:35:17 AM
I'm not saying that the dynamo isn't a great ball, but from what I've heard, it's just too much ball for most conditions out there. I'll vote it in for "most hookingest ball of the year"
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2009 PBA East/Central region.
This is life.
This is struggle.
This is love.
This is war.
Post by: Steven on February 28, 2009, 11:43:58 AM
quote:
Versatility is what makes Ball of the Year. Not because it hooks more than another. The amount of bowlers that are able to compete with a certain piece consistently and successfully is what decides it. That is why the bowlers vote for it. Not the pro shops or distributors.
I guess I'm still confused on the whole "Ball of the Year" thing. When you look at the way Bowler's Journal (BJ) determined their "Ball of the Year", it seems contrary to your definition. Look at what Joe Cerar of BJ had to say regarding their selection methodology:
quote:
"I know we all have our personal favorites, and, yes even brand biases, but the reality is that pro shop operators have thrown more balls, drilled many more, and communicated with countless customers about which balls they like or don't like and why."
So this year, BJ used proshops instead of individual bowlers for voting. He seemed to understand the problems associated with "our personal favorites, and, yes even brand biases". His justification was:
quote:
"Who knows more about bowling balls, an individual ball owner or an experienced Pro Shop operator who works on most of the balls available today?"
And Rico, he's right. He understands that it's a flawed methodology to go directly to the bowler. Unfortunately, the problems he outlined with bowlers exist (to some degree) in the proshops themselves. I simply gave two concrete examples of where proshop 'business' biases come into play.
I guess what's really interesting is that BJ selected the Cell. I really like the Cell myself, but as a heavy oil ball, it's not an ideal ball for the masses and it doesn't really excel in all the versatility categories you discussed.
Post by: jls on February 28, 2009, 11:53:24 AM
quote:
I agree with Rico, I see too many people saying that they can't keep their dynamo on the lane because it hooks too much. That doesn't make it the ball of the year, it makes it the ball of the year in a bag. T-road solid won ball of the year in 07 because of its versatility and the cover being able to be tweaked so it could perform on anything.
I'm not saying that the dynamo isn't a great ball, but from what I've heard, it's just too much ball for most conditions out there. I'll vote it in for "most hookingest ball of the year"
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2009 PBA East/Central region.
This is life.
This is struggle.
This is love.
This is war.
That's why richie said to make the lanes 5 boards wider!!!
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jls
Post by: bowlerdawg on February 28, 2009, 12:18:05 PM
i actually went bowling last night
i couldnt keep anything on the lanes last night
morich
kenitic
global
L1
this place has never heard of oil
did not have my trusty c'saw or liberator on hand
i have no problem with your BOY thread
there is a bunch of good equiptment out there, and everybody is entitles to their opinion
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: BeansProShop on February 28, 2009, 12:26:55 PM
Lane#1 is going to try to help that.
That is the reason there are so many successful online sellers of Lane#1 products.. People want them but have no avenue to buy them at the local shops..
Most of these 2000 shops are still under the impression that Lane#1's product prices are higher than other manufacturers.. We will see a nice spike in sales when these shops are educated on our new pricing structures...
Our top of the line products are at the same or cheaper than other companies products at the present time and it has been like that for almost 2 years..
The Virtuals and Hot Sauces I just got in actually cost me more than the new Dynamo. By $6 per ball. Not $.50
So yes popularity does have a lot to due with sales and word of mouth and hopefully soon enough Lane#1 will have a bigger piece of display space in the local shops.
Since January 1st I have sold 39 Agent Oranges and 18 Dynamo's.
I've sold 4 Virtual Gravity's and 4 HyRoads..
I've sold 3 The Sauce
I've sold 0 Ebonite or Track Balls.
I've sold several Brunswick balls but most all were blems. Even the first quality balls were blems but of course I am just bashing the company.
Lane#1 was never my highest volume company even being a PBA pro staff member since 2001 but as of 2006 to the present it has easily become my highest volume company sold. I have seen a large spike in sales after coming back from running the booth in Albuquerque. Maybe it was because people thought it was my specialty now or that I was driving around in the Lane#1 Hummer for 10 months but Lane#1 dominates my shop.
I am sure Lane#1 is not looking to dominate every shop although it would be nice. Lane#1 is just hoping to get their products seen in the local pro shops that are not aware of our new company structure.
Hopefully that can change...
18 years in business and we're still here. That says alot. Look at all the other upstart companies that have come and gone..
I guess I was rambling here a little but I just felt like typing my thoughts...
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: BeansProShop on February 28, 2009, 01:51:14 PM
quote:
Beans,
The general thrust of your post has a lot of merit. I am sure there would be a lot more bowlers in the detroit area using Lane #1 if 1. The pro shop had them, and 2. the price was more in line with the competition. Lane #1 is practically non-existant in these parts. I think your numbers on what you drill and sell are a little skewed towards Lane #1 products because, I am sure you will agree, you are probably thought of in your area and in this forum as the Lane #1 drilling guru. People are going to come to you for a Lane #1 product primarily.
Cool,
The other problem is that there are shops out there that get the Lane#1 balls at our current pricing but still use the higher price point to sell them. There is nothing wrong with people making money. That is the american way.....But, if shops would price the balls accordingly in line with other companies top line products we would be in the same price range.
We ARE in the same price range as the competitors. It is the shops that are not pricing the balls in line.
We offer quantity order discounts as well.
Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: JustRico on February 28, 2009, 02:09:18 PM
When was the last time you saw a publication, such as BJ or BTM, give a ball a bad review? There are no bad balls just more conditional.
I will trust in sales and response from the pro shops and bowlers, in knowing what a ball of the year candidate is, over a ball company or magazine, for this discussion. And I am sorry but it is versatility, no matter what the price. And that can be a mid-price ball.
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: lsf_21 on February 28, 2009, 02:13:04 PM
quote:
Steven
When was the last time you saw a publication, such as BJ or BTM, give a ball a bad review? There are no bad balls just more conditional.
I will trust in sales and response from the pro shops and bowlers, in knowing what a ball of the year candidate is, over a ball company or magazine, for this discussion. And I am sorry but it is versatility, no matter what the price. And that can be a mid-price ball.
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Formerly BrunsRico
didnt the t-road solid win ball of the year being a mid priced ball?
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GO CUBS!!!!
GO CELTICS!!!!
Post by: jls on February 28, 2009, 02:14:33 PM
You see Steven, may I call you Steven, that kinda sorta contradicts everything you kinda sorta bashed me about!!!!!
At least it appears that in the ball of the tear post, most who voted, did so because of their experience they had with the ball they voted for. They did not vote in the blind, like this very thread is asking sawheads to do!!!!!
Therefore Steven, may I call you Steven, You, yes you truely deserve to be the sawhead of the year!!!!!!!
BTW, does anyone know how to spell Hypocrite? Or the meaning of the word.
Have a nice day stevie
Steven, can't wait to hear what you have to say about this
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jls
Edited on 2/28/2009 3:47 PM
Post by: bowlerdawg on February 28, 2009, 02:58:23 PM
so if your at a loss then we are doomed.........lol
j/k
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Steven on February 28, 2009, 03:13:24 PM
I'm guilty of not staying on topic with the original posters topic. And frankly, neither did you. Like many topics, this one took a different path, and I took a side road with Rico. No harm -- no foul.
Rico: For the following:
quote:
When was the last time you saw a publication, such as BJ or BTM, give a ball a bad review? There are no bad balls just more conditional.
I will trust in sales and response from the pro shops and bowlers, in knowing what a ball of the year candidate is, over a ball company or magazine, for this discussion. And I am sorry but it is versatility, no matter what the price. And that can be a mid-price ball.
I agree with most of what you're saying here. Especially your assessment of the publications. I asked about the contradictions you have with BJ not because I agree with them, but instead to get clarification from you. Thanks.
And now for cool rockin daddy:
quote:
Get a job in Washington D.C. You will spin anything to fit your views. Your posts are un-readable and laughable at the same time. Do the Lane #1 fans a break and quit posting. You are not helping their cause with your ramblings.
Why are you alone in finding my posts un-readable? Others seem to understand, even if there is disagreement. If you spent more time developing remedial reading comprehension skills and less time trolling, you could make tremendous strides as a functioning individual. And maybe, just maybe, you'll understand how 'laughable' your ballreviews award winning quote really is:
"I don't rely on a core to make the ball move and the pins dance. I use my skills and shell prep (90% of ball reaction) to get the job done."
LOL.....
Post by: Steven on March 01, 2009, 11:09:55 AM
quote:
For those of us who know how to bowl, skill and cover prep ARE 90% of ball reaction.
Well, your lifetime high average of 217 suggests you have a ways to go before declaring you 'know how to bowl'. You'd be marginal for the last spot on many teams in my scratch league. But that's the topic for another discussion. As far as your continued pronouncement that 'skill and cover prep ARE 90% of ball reaction', I'd appreciate it if you could point out a single authoritative bowling reference that backs this up.
quote:
Tell ya what, I'll drop it down to 70% since that is what Team USA coach Jeri Edwards figures it to be and, unlike you, I won't argue with somebody more knowledgable than me.
You're acting like this is a car negotiation. So now you want to back down to 70% to appear more reasonable. Nice try. The message is that you really don't have a clue what the real number is. Is honesty that painful of a concept to you?
quote:
If your game is that weak that you feel you need to rely on a core to get the ball to move, well, all I can say is you're pretty weak. I'm sure there are lots of women's leagues that you can compete in.
So because I reject the notion that cover prep is 90% of ball reaction, then I'm a 'core' guy only and automatically have a weak game. Your thinking process never ceases to amaze me. If you'd like to have a civil conversation about cover prep, I'm there. Let's compare notes about the comparative merits of using Abralon, Scotchbrite, Trizact, Sandpaper and the various liquid abrasives. While we're at it, let's talk about the pros/cons of 2-side, 4-side, and 6-side sanding techniques, and where each one is appropriate for simple cover refreshes relative to complete refinishing. Maybe you can also throw in your thoughts about the merits of using a CAB vs. application by hand.
I've refinished and prepped hundreds of balls between helping out at the proshop and working in my own stuff at home. I do think I have some appreciation for the role of cover vs. core in overall ball reaction. It would be fastinating comparing notes.
However, it's funny that in all my time here, I don't recall you really participating in any serious cover adjustment discussions. For you being a cover guy, I find that strange.....Please tell me that you at least know how to turn a spinner on.
quote:
I wonder if you realize how ridiculous you look ALWAYS trying to spin news, data, advertising, etc. to "defend" a ball company that you claim you don't defend.
What you call 'spin' is information where you have problems with understanding and comprehension. I've asked this before and I'll ask again. Why do you seem to have issues with understanding/comprehension while others don't?
If you want to ignore your continuing focus and understanding/comprehension issues, that's fine. But please enlighten me with your cover prep skills. I'd really like to learn more.
Edited on 3/1/2009 12:46 PM
Post by: Steven on March 01, 2009, 01:38:07 PM
quote:
You keep on hiding behind your core "crutch".
There is no hiding and there is no crutch. I simply appreciate that ball reaction is a combination of core, drill, and surface prep. They're all important and work together. The sum is greater than the individual parts. Most experienced players seem to understand this.
quote:
My local pro shops uses high school kids working part time to man the abralon pads. Good for you, the rehab center did well to find you meaningful work.
LOL. I enjoy the opportunity to occasionally help out at the shop to give the proshop owner a break. Proshop owners are human too, and they appreciate an evening off here and there to spend time with their families. Besides, it's a complete break from my day job, and it gives me an opportunity to learn and experiment. You can't possibly understand the effects of different polishes and rubbing compounds if you don't try them out yourself. I wouldn't let some unconscious high school kid change the surface on any of my equipment. I would not be a happy camper to find out my Super Carbide Bomb was worked with Abralon instead of 35 Micron Trizact. Maybe the difference would be meaningless to you, but it wouldn't be if you were the cover guy you pretent to be.
quote:
You don't offer ANYTHNG useful but more rhetoric on how good you supposedly are. If you are stupid enough to judge a bowler by his average than you are dumber than I thought.
I expected this. I've avoided your school yard comments about being your ball caddie and your general pronouncement of your 'pin dancing' skills. You've peppered me in many threads with the enormity of your ability. You don't have a problem suggesting I belong in some lower level women's league, but I throw a little sunshine back at you, and it's 'boo hoo' time? Your hot air just gets tiresome, and I took the bait. I have my bowling limitations, I've shared them with others here, and I'm the first to admit them.
You're right: average is not the definitive measuring stick of ability. But would I find reference to 'cool rockin daddy' in at least finishing in the top half of a Regional, or getting more than honorable mention in the Michigan State Tournament? Somehow, I don't think so......
quote:
Your views ain't fresh, they come from the most absurd perspective I have ever seen, and the arrogance of your tripe makes me want to gag. Too bad for the other Lane #1 supporters here, they will never be rid of you and your rantings
CRD, it again comes down to you incredible lack of focus and less than adequate comprehension skills. Don't blame me (or anyone else) for your limitations.
BTW, have you finally decided if cover prep is 90% or 70% or ???. Also, have you had a chance to provide a definitive reference to your 90% number, regardless if you still believe it? Just questions that you conveniently avoided (or maybe didn't understand) in this last round.
Post by: Steven on March 01, 2009, 08:43:22 PM
quote:
Well, stevie, I learned how to avoid from the best, YOU.
LOL...Avoidance isn't pretty, and it's clear you mastered that art long before we tangled. Nice try though...
quote:
Still waiting for your absolute proof about a diamond core hitting the hardest (doesn't count if you have to add 20% more energy at release to get 20% more hitting power. That is basic physics. You are familiar with physics aren't you? ). Keep on asking for it and yet you keep ignoring it. I don't really want to hear about it from anybody else but you, stevie. Waiting for you to put up or shut up for just once.
Another figment of your vivid imagination. I've never claimed anything related to '20% more hitting power'. What I personally like about Lane#1 equipment has more to do with consistency and predictability. When asked, that's all I've ever discussed or referenced. Consistent with your past history of focus issues and confusion, you have me mixed up with someone else. Another non-surprise.
Now, for 'put up or shut up'....
I put up by offering to have an honest conversation about shell prep that you desperately cling to. Your response was that you couldn't be bothered with the details of shell prep. In fact, you're happy to have some kid who doesn't know jack about a pad prepare your balls for you. That's mind boggling considering how important it is to your ball reaction. How incredibly ignorant. Don't embarrass yourself further with any talk of 'put up or shut up'.
quote:
You are the master at deflection, always volunteering how involved you are in the sport of bowling doing this or that, but never getting to the point.
I always get to the point. It's your inability to assimilate the point or your rejection of the point that's your problem.
quote:
I and the rest of the mere mortals on the site are certainly glad when you deign to come off your high mountain and bless us with your thoughts. Your arrogance is equaled only by your ignorance.
First, don't mix others up with you. CRD stands by himeslf. You strike me as someone who has never accepted constructive criticism well. You’re certainly showing it here.
You like to talk about what's 'fresh' and what isn't. Based on this sorry thread, what isn't fresh is what I already know about you:
1) You have a bad attitude
2) You have a big chip on your shoulder
3) You avoid and deflect (admitted to in this thread), which makes communication kind of difficult
4) You know nothing about Lane#1 equipment, which is odd since you're trolling in the Lane#1 forum
What I didn't previously know but what has become painfully clear in this thread:
1) You don't know if cover prep is actually 90% or 70% or some other XX% of reaction.
2) Even though you cling to a 90% number (most of the time, when it suits your needs), you couldn't discuss the techniques of cover preparation if your life depended on it.
3) The 'skills' you supposedly possess (because you remind us repeatedly) are really suspect at best.
So if you answer anything moving forward, please let it be this: What are you offering here? You don't appear to have any appreciation for drilling and core dynamics. You rely heavily on cover prep, but you have no appreciation for the various techniques you could have at your disposal. You've questioned my abilities, yet you have yet to offer anything that can be learned from your own accomplishments.
The world is filled with people possessing bad attitudes and stubborn ignorance. Please help me with what you’re adding here that provides any value??
Edited on 3/1/2009 10:12 PM
Post by: Steven on March 01, 2009, 09:13:48 PM
Post by: bowlerdawg on March 02, 2009, 10:19:01 PM
quote:
Versility sells balls.
Those that can used on the widest lanes condtions by the widest variety of bowlers will be purchased the most.
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Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: OddBalls on March 03, 2009, 12:29:10 PM
quote:
this doesn't change the fact that your still the most insignaficant sperm to ever dwell the birth canal..............POSquote:
Versility sells balls.
Those that can used on the widest lanes condtions by the widest variety of bowlers will be purchased the most.
--------------------
Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
--------------------
I'm your huckleberry
But, but I'm having a bad day and feel kinda down..
..It's ok right? You forgive me, right?..oh please....
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Inverted 1 and Dead Flush are my Evil Twins...
Post by: Steven on March 03, 2009, 04:16:22 PM
quote:
Have had to go to the Lane #1 forum for high comedy and laughs even though the poor souls are unaware how hysterically funny they really are.
CRD: You're at it again. I just saw the above in the Brunswick forum.
I allowed you the dignity of the 'last word' to stop your personal madness. Jeez, get a grip and let that chip on your shoulder go.
If you really want to know about a day in the life of Rico and Nick, send them messages. Maybe you can even get a coveted spot on their respective holiday card lists.
Post by: holland1945 on March 03, 2009, 04:44:46 PM
quote:quote:
Have had to go to the Lane #1 forum for high comedy and laughs even though the poor souls are unaware how hysterically funny they really are.
CRD: You're at it again. I just saw the above in the Brunswick forum.
You must just be stalking him then, because you don't actually POST anywhere other than Lane #1/Misc Bowling/Misc Non-Bowling...
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**Interested in owning a Slate Blue Quantum? See my profile for details on obtaining mine from me**
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Post by: Steven on March 03, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
quote:
You must just be stalking him then, because you don't actually POST anywhere other than Lane #1/Misc Bowling/Misc Non-Bowling...
I think I inadvertently put up an invitation to a new troll convention....
Stalking...lol. If you read through this miserable thread, CRD started things by deciding to take an unprovoked shot, and picked things back up in the Brunswick forum. You might want to rethink who is stalking who.
As far as where I post, you could take notice of the technique. It's called posting in areas where you have background and experience worth sharing. You were doing fine when you limited yourself to pretending to be a libertarian in Misc Non-Bowling. You got in trouble when you stumbled into the real bowling subject areas.
Not that you venture there, but I've also posted regularly in the coverstock prep forum. I did try to engage CRD in some constructive coverstock related discussion, but it turns out he outsources that aspect of his equipment preparation to teenage kids. It's a shame not to understand what they're doing, since he doesn't rely on a core and cover is 90% (or is it now 70%?) of his reaction.
But hey, thanks for your concerns here.
Edited on 3/3/2009 7:08 PM
Post by: KingofKings696 on March 03, 2009, 06:07:35 PM
Post by: holland1945 on March 03, 2009, 07:15:37 PM
quote:
Stalking...lol. If you read through this miserable thread, CRD started things by deciding to take an unprovoked shot, and picked things back up in the Brunswick forum. You might want to rethink who is stalking who.
Yes, but how did YOU know that unless you were looking for him? You haven't posted to the Brunswick forum in at least 30 days based on a rudimentary search.
quote:
As far as where I post, you could take notice of the technique. It's called posting in areas where you have background and experience worth sharing. You were doing fine when you limited yourself to pretending to be a libertarian in Misc Non-Bowling. You got in trouble when you stumbled into the real bowling subject areas.
By supposing that I'm not a libertarian and that I know nothing about bowling, you've clearly shown yourself to be as much of an idiot as I thought was possible, or at least a book-smart person who jumps to conclusions based on inadequate data to make them. As long as no one questions your intellectual superiority you seem like you try to be helpful most of the time, but your attempt to appear unbiased in your profile and some of your statement qualifications are laughable when you don't actively participate in any ball manufacturer's forum other than Lane #1. You always denigrate those who have a less-than-glowing opinion of Lane #1 or it's products (even when valid) and have never (from what I've seen) expressed a view of Lane #1 that is anything but fanboyism.
Here's one idea for you that will blow your mind...you don't have to average 240 to "know" bowling. Some of the best coaches I've ever talked to don't partake in the sport much themselves anymore and when they do, they aren't much north of 175. But they know more about mechanics, drillings, and coverstock prep than that 240 bowler who is a little more accurate than the 230 guy on great wall of China synthetics. I mention this because one of your pet causes here is attacking those whom you feel do not carry a sufficient sanctioned average to offer bowling advice to others.
quote:
Not that you venture there, but I've also posted regularly in the coverstock prep forum.
I do go there, but if you haven't noticed, my posting frequency has fallen off a cliff, thanks to switching from a job where I work at home on the computer 48+ hours per week (and a month of no job) to one with a 35 minute commute, plus I'm spending about 90 min at the gym 5 times a week. I know you didn't ask nor do you care but I'm just showing that my lack of posting in other forums has nothing to do with my lack of knowledge (though admittedly, all of my equipment is more than 2 years old at this point so I have less to offer specifically on new balls unless I've seen them) and everything to do with my lack of time.
quote:
I did try to engage CRD in some constructive coverstock related discussion, but it turns out he outsources that aspect of his equipment preparation to teenage kids. It's a shame not to understand what they're doing, since he doesn't rely on a core and cover is 90% (or is it now 70%?) of his reaction.
I'm sure this is what he's thinking of: http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm#%%20THAT%20FACTORS%20EFFECT%20REACTION%20ON%20THE%20BOWLING%20BALL
I haven't seen you provide any actual numbers yourself, nor evidence to back up your rebuttal of his claim. But that's pretty standard for you.
quote:
But hey, thanks for your concerns here.
Hey, no problem. Any time I can get you to direct your ire toward me instead of someone else, it's a better day for the board.
--------------------
**Interested in owning a Slate Blue Quantum? See my profile for details on obtaining mine from me**
Support REAL change and REAL conservative politics in America:
http://www.mises.org - learn
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/ - activism
http://www.breakthematrix.com/ - video
http://www.rationalreview.com/ and http://www.antiwar.com/ - news
Post by: Steven on March 04, 2009, 09:55:57 AM
quote:
Yes, but how did YOU know that unless you were looking for him? You haven't posted to the Brunswick forum in at least 30 days based on a rudimentary search.
I regularly read all the manufacturer forums – there is lots of good information regardless of what you throw. I was in the Brunswick forum, saw a reference to Rico, so I checked it out. I’ve had my differences with Rico, but he’s an incredibly knowledgeable resource and I like to read his stuff. Digging out CRD was not high on my agenda.
quote:
As long as no one questions your intellectual superiority you seem like you try to be helpful most of the time, but your attempt to appear unbiased in your profile and some of your statement qualifications are laughable when you don't actively participate in any ball manufacturer's forum other than Lane #1.
Look, I’ve said this before. I’m not a ‘Lane#1 only’ bowler. My active arsenal includes a Brunswick Fury, 2 Hammer Widows, 2 Columbia Rivals, 2 Ebonite Stingers (Pearl and Particle), and some assorted older Ebonite and Track balls you probably wouldn’t remember. And they’re all very good pieces (except the Fury) or I wouldn't bother keeping them. I’ve posted briefly in those forums my original thoughts on each ball, and left it at that. There is no purpose in posting just to post.
quote:
You always denigrate those who have a less-than-glowing opinion of Lane #1 or it's products (even when valid) and have never (from what I've seen) expressed a view of Lane #1 that is anything but fanboyism.
I think it’s fair to state that at least 95% of posters who have issued a ‘less-than-glowing opinion’ of Lane#1 have no relevant experience with the product. That should be offensive to anyone who cares about the integrity of the forums, regardless of favorite brand. As far as my ‘fanboyism’, I try to be balanced. Overall, I do think the Lane#1 brand is terrific. However, I have discussed issues I’ve had with the Bomb core specifically, and the recent exotic core designs they’ve come out with in general. I’ve said (more than once) I’d be happy with nothing more than a complete line of Diamond core offerings. But it’s a business – Lane#1 obviously has to try to attract greater market share.
quote:
Here's one idea for you that will blow your mind...you don't have to average 240 to "know" bowling. Some of the best coaches I've ever talked to don't partake in the sport much themselves anymore and when they do, they aren't much north of 175. But they know more about mechanics, drillings, and coverstock prep than that 240 bowler who is a little more accurate than the 230 guy on great wall of China synthetics.
I’ve read this, and my mind is not ‘blown’. I agree that many fine coaches are not (or have not been) high average bowlers on any condition. I’ve personally taken lessons from both camps, gaining valuable insights from each. However, from my perspective, there is added value from being taught a technique from someone who has achieved personal success themselves. I think that’s true regardless of endeavor.
quote:
I mention this because one of your pet causes here is attacking those whom you feel do not carry a sufficient sanctioned average to offer bowling advice to others.
With the exception of yourself and CRD, I can’t remember bringing up average with anyone. I try to avoid getting into those kinds of discussions because they usually get ugly. In CRD’s case, he offered me the honor of being his ball caddy. In your case, you’ve often taken on the persona -- quite impressively -- of someone who’s an expert in a given area (Lane#1 demographic strategy and marketing ring a bell?). Once that door is open, asking for credentials is more than appropriate.
quote:
I'm sure this is what he's thinking of: http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm#%%20THAT%20FACTORS%20EFFECT%20REACTION%20ON%20THE%20BOWLING%20BALL
I haven't seen you provide any actual numbers yourself, nor evidence to back up your rebuttal of his claim. But that's pretty standard for you.
CRD’s claim is that coverstock is 90% of reaction. The link you reference says 65%-70%. Unless my math is fuzzy, that’s a huge difference. The reality is that total reaction is a blended convergence of cover, core and drill. There isn’t a magic number for any component that captures the importance of any of the three.
quote:
Any time I can get you to direct your ire toward me instead of someone else, it's a better day for the board.
I respect your ability to stand up and take anything thrown at you. I can’t recall you ever threatening to use the ignore list, which is the ultimate chicken exit for those too mentally weak and feeble to present and defend their thoughts in an effective way. You have a big one up on CRD in this area.
As I told you before, any issues I have with you revolve around your propensity to talk before you think, and to post about things about which you have little or no background. If you can get that under control, you’re going to be OK.
Again, thanks for the thoughtful response.
Edited on 3/4/2009 11:33 AM
Post by: BeansProShop on March 04, 2009, 02:38:25 PM
My name is Beans and I like Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs...
Thanks for reading...
Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: sevenpin63 on March 04, 2009, 03:02:33 PM
quote:
Hello...
My name is Beans and I like Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs...
Thanks for reading...
Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
LOL!!!!
--------------------
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: Steven on March 04, 2009, 03:40:39 PM
quote:
Like a broken record, stevie keeps on with the 90% cover reaction quote even though I said that I would have to agree with bowling experts like Team USA coach Jeri Edwards that it is probably more like 70% of coverstock being the most important factor in ball reaction. C'mon, stevie, get on the same page!
Yes, so after repeatedly saying with conviction that it's 90%, you finally did back off to 70%, based on Jeri Edwards. So it sounds like you're just parroting numbers instead providing information based on your own real world experience. You're just a bundle of refreshing information for the masses. Cool, I get that now. We're on the same page.
quote:
Christ, all you ever have is "he said, she said" crap when it comes to defending Lane 1. Sure they are fine balls, just can't find anybody using them.
Huh? Like alot of your ramblings, the first sentence makes absolutely no sense. What does your not seeing anyone use Lane#1 have to do with anything? Your home alley is not the center of the universe. You're fascinated by the brand, so be a big boy and have you proshop order one. You can then throw it and make your own judgements. What a concept.....
quote:
Zealots like you, stevie, and roy munson (ball trader extrordinarie), and ever loquacious bowlerdawg turn every body off with your views and your methods of "not defending" Lane 1.
Who is 'everybody'? From what I've seen, your main posse consists of a worn out abrasion pad (Frankie Abralon), and a fugitive city park peep (Harry Ballsagna). You keep some really good company.
BTW, I'm not defending anything or anybody. I happen to like the brand and take issues with trolls who downgrade the product without having any experience. That's one of the reasons I find you so offensive. It's disturbing to believe folks as dense as you are allowed to walk the streets.
Post by: cros843 on March 04, 2009, 09:08:36 PM
Post by: ballcollector on March 04, 2009, 09:51:09 PM
--------------------------------------
Post by: Doug Sterner on March 04, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
Inquiring minds want to know :-)
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
Post by: Roy Munson on March 04, 2009, 10:48:11 PM
quote:
Zealots like you, stevie, and roy munson (ball trader extrordinarie), and ever loquacious bowlerdawg turn every body off with your views and your methods of "not defending" Lane 1.
. . . sticks and stones may break my bones . . .
. . . What a moron!
. . . Go back to your nest and report your trolling escapade again
--------------------
Roy Munson: "Morning! I hope you don't mind, I got up a little early. So I took the liberty of milking your cow for you. Yeah, it took a little while to get her warmed up. She sure is a stubborn one. Then pow, all at once."
Mr. Boorg: "We don't have a cow. We have a bull."
***** Looking for Pearl Cherry C/2 *****
Post by: mainzer on March 05, 2009, 05:25:45 AM
--------------------
''If their is a life after death,
then their is no death,
and if their is no death,
we do not live''
Progressive Metal Band
EVERGREY
MainzerPower
Post by: Roy Munson on March 05, 2009, 09:18:09 AM
quote:
Peroids after sentences Roy!! Stick with you will get it.
--------------------
''If their is a life after death,
then their is no death,
and if their is no death,
we do not live''
Progressive Metal Band
EVERGREY
HA HA HA . . . What a "Moroin"
MainzerPower
HA HA HA . . . Now I see what it means
--------------------
Roy Munson: "Morning! I hope you don't mind, I got up a little early. So I took the liberty of milking your cow for you. Yeah, it took a little while to get her warmed up. She sure is a stubborn one. Then pow, all at once."
Mr. Boorg: "We don't have a cow. We have a bull."
***** Looking for Pearl Cherry C/2 *****
Edited on 3/5/2009 10:19 AM
Edited on 3/5/2009 10:32 AM
Edited on 3/5/2009 10:32 AM
Post by: BeansProShop on March 05, 2009, 10:42:46 AM
quote:
Hey Beans....milk or dark chocolate??????
Inquiring minds want to know :-)
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
Certainly Milk Chocolate...The White Chocolate they had was great too....
This post has so much more meaning than the other 50 in this thread. What are we doing here people...
Give it a rest. Can we please use our time to promote this dying sport???
Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: absoluteisanidiot on March 05, 2009, 11:38:43 AM
Post by: sammy on March 05, 2009, 07:15:42 PM
Post by: Storm269 on March 05, 2009, 07:37:35 PM
--------------------
In my bag :
Dynamo Buzzsaw THS Buzzsaw Clear Diamond
Post by: Steven on March 05, 2009, 08:11:45 PM
quote:
Can't wait to see what CRD has to say about this. All these reviews being based on the ball being a 4000 oob finish, when it is a 1000 oob finish.
sammy: Is your thing watching trolling in action? Is that's why you're so anxious to hear what CRD has to say about this? The man who doesn't need a core and appears to be confused about coverstocks? Please, go look for another freak show.
Who cares if it's advertised as 4000 or 1000 OOB? If you're interested in the ball, you're buying it because it's an aggressive heavy oiler. If there is confusion about any aspect of the ball, as always, call Lane#1 for input. That should be the standard approach, with any company, before making initial changes to the cover. I saw one in action last night, and it's very aggressive. If it's too aggressive for your own tastes, you play with different grits/polishes to fine tune the reaction you're looking for. Jezz, it's not rocket science. Stop trying to make an issue there isn't one.
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on March 05, 2009, 08:21:35 PM
quote:quote:
Can't wait to see what CRD has to say about this. All these reviews being based on the ball being a 4000 oob finish, when it is a 1000 oob finish.
sammy: Is your thing watching trolling in action? Is that's why you're so anxious to hear what CRD has to say about this? The man who doesn't need a core and appears to be confused about coverstocks? Please, go look for another freak show.
Who cares if it's advertised as 4000 or 1000 OOB? If you're interested in the ball, you're buying it because it's an aggressive heavy oiler. If there is confusion about any aspect of the ball, as always, call Lane#1 for input. That should be the standard approach, with any company, before making initial changes to the cover. I saw one in action last night, and it's very aggressive. If it's too aggressive for your own tastes, you play with different grits/polishes to fine tune the reaction you're looking for. Jezz, it's not rocket science. Stop trying to make an issue there isn't one.
Then if its 1000 abralon OOB then why does Lane #1 have it at 4000 on the site??
http://www.lane1bowling.com/balls/dynamo.html
--------------------
quote:
You did remember to put some soothing bubble bath in before soaking the ball, right? If not, there's your problem. Lane 1 balls are obviously female (diamond core, cost more, high maintenance, etc.) therefore, if the bath was not to her liking, she probably got so mad at you she cracked her shell. It's the bowling ball way of busting that throbbing vessel in her forehead...
--------------------
9~
Post by: Storm269 on March 05, 2009, 08:29:22 PM
--------------------
In my bag :
Dynamo Buzzsaw THS Buzzsaw Clear Diamond
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on March 05, 2009, 08:41:36 PM
quote:
Hi Steven, I don't agree with you here, we are located in Asia and we replie on information given by the Bowling company and get most of the other information from bowling forums. If Bowling company said the ball comes with 4000 grit finish, we will not doubt it and if we found 4000 grit is not to our style and would need to lower it to 1000 grit, we will just do it. We can't be calling an overseas Bowling company just to confirm that the grit given by the them is correct before we do anything to the ball. In my opinion, it is the responsible of the Bowling company to ensure that information printed is correct and if they find that there is a mis-print, they need to correct it.
--------------------
In my bag :
EXACTLY!!
--------------------
quote:
You did remember to put some soothing bubble bath in before soaking the ball, right? If not, there's your problem. Lane 1 balls are obviously female (diamond core, cost more, high maintenance, etc.) therefore, if the bath was not to her liking, she probably got so mad at you she cracked her shell. It's the bowling ball way of busting that throbbing vessel in her forehead...
--------------------
9~
Post by: holland1945 on March 05, 2009, 09:12:52 PM
quote:quote:
Can't wait to see what CRD has to say about this. All these reviews being based on the ball being a 4000 oob finish, when it is a 1000 oob finish.
sammy: Is your thing watching trolling in action? Is that's why you're so anxious to hear what CRD has to say about this? The man who doesn't need a core and appears to be confused about coverstocks? Please, go look for another freak show.
Who cares if it's advertised as 4000 or 1000 OOB? If you're interested in the ball, you're buying it because it's an aggressive heavy oiler. If there is confusion about any aspect of the ball, as always, call Lane#1 for input. That should be the standard approach, with any company, before making initial changes to the cover. I saw one in action last night, and it's very aggressive. If it's too aggressive for your own tastes, you play with different grits/polishes to fine tune the reaction you're looking for. Jezz, it's not rocket science. Stop trying to make an issue there isn't one.
This is what I don't understand...how someone who can in general be pretty rational can post something like this. How can you adjust the coverstock properly if you're starting from an erroneous presupposition to begin with?
Now that said, I agree with what someone said somewhere else...if you look at a ball that is supposedly 4000 and can't tell that it's at a significantly lower grit than that (assuming no polish), then you have problems. But a lot of people do not like to alter factory surfaces because it's just never quite the same again...not necessarily better or worse, just different. So if I ordered this ball through my proshop thinking it was 4000 grit and I'm one of the people that is that particular about my coverstocks, I'd be pretty unhappy if the ball arrived at 1000. This, I feel, is a legitimate product complaint for a customer to have.
--------------------
**Interested in owning a Slate Blue Quantum or a Lane #1 red XXXL? See my profile for details on obtaining mine from me**
Support REAL change and REAL conservative politics in America:
http://www.mises.org - learn
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/ - activism
http://www.breakthematrix.com/ - video
http://www.rationalreview.com/ and http://www.antiwar.com/ - news
Post by: 102101 on March 06, 2009, 06:21:42 AM
quote:
Wow! Stevie, we may have found a place where you can use your awesome ball sanding skills. Maybe you can get a job repping Lane #1 right at the Global plant and tell all the dedicated Lane #1 employe......errrrr, uh. That's right, there are no Lane #1 employees there that you can teach the proper way to sand a ball to the MARKETED FINISH! Well, that's what happens when you don't manufacture yourself. Do any of the maketing people that Lane #1 is made up of actually touch a ball? If so, you would think they could tell the difference. I suggest they start using the Little Stevie Chart of Ball Finishes. I know it's been a big help to all the part-time teens working as ball sanders in our local shops.
CRD if the company lane #1 and the people that use their bother you so much why not just stick to the brunswick forum? Why give yourself headaches over it?
--------------------
102101? Hmmmm
www.blackhawklanes.com
Post by: jls on March 06, 2009, 08:06:25 AM
Sammy, "blind in one eye and can't see out the other" <<< I love it, may I use that line
When I look at the balls on the rack, I certainly can see a difference from a Bounty or Resurgence at 1000K, compared to a Magic or Powerswing at 4000K. Not only by site, but by feel.
Now the point I was trying to make before Trig and his boy toy Steve went postal on me was this, A bowler should be able to get a read on a ball when throwing it. I forget the name of the person who contacted Lane #1 over this matter. But to me, the read he got on this ball while thinking it was a 4000 oob, was off. That is probably why he contacted Lane #1. After being told it was at a 1000K oob, it probably made sence to him as to why the ball reacted the way it did.
Now so many other's posted about using the Dynamo at the 4000K oob finish. And they loved the ball, and Trig said it gave him more recovery then his Oranges at 4000K, Well it should since it was really at 1000K oob.
Now I 'm not saying that there post were wrong or made up!!!!! What I 'm saying is that they got a false read on the ball.
Now if I was to tell my customer, the Dynamo is at a 4000K oob finish, and he bowls with it and it over reacts, the surface adjustment he or I might make may be wrong, since we are basing it on the 4000K oob finish. We may polish the ball. But if the ball is really at 1000k, and we KNEW that, we more then likely would bring it up to a 2000K or a 4000k before polishing it.
So yes, it is a big deal to know EXACTLY where the box finish is at!!!!
just so you know
--------------------
jls
Edited on 3/6/2009 9:45 AM
Post by: taylorj99 on March 06, 2009, 08:17:38 AM
quote:
Now the point I was trying to make before Trig and his boy toy Steve went postal on me was this, A bowler should be able to get a read on a ball when throwing it. I forget the name of the person who contacted Lane #1 over this matter. But to me, the read he got on this ball while think ing it was a 4000 oob, was off. That is probably why he contacted Lane #1. After being told it was at a 1000K oob, it probably made sence to him as to why the ball reacted the way it did.
Now so many other's posted about using the Dynamo at the 4000K oob finish. And they loved the ball, and Trig said it gave him more recovery then his Oranges at 4000K, Well it should since it was really at 1000K oob.
Now I 'm not saying that there post were wrong or made up!!!!! What I 'm saying is that they got a false read on the ball.
Now if I was to tell my customer, the Dynamo is at a 4000K oob finish, and he bowls with it and it over reacts, the surface adjustment he or I might make may be wrong, since we are basing it on the 4000K oob finish. We may polish the ball. But if the ball is really at 1000k, and we KNEW that, we more then likely would bring it up to a 2000K or a 4000k before polishing it.
So yes, it is a big deal to know EXACTLY where the box finish is at!!!!
A very nice coherent post. I agree with this. In fact, just this week I was talking to my driller if there was something higher than 4k before polish, assuming that I was already at 4k. I'm glad I didn't polish the ball and will try a higher grit first.
Post by: Steven on March 06, 2009, 08:27:47 AM
What I'm saying (and this is just from my perspective) is that it's not going to make or break your experience with the ball. It's advertised as a heavy oiler -- maybe one of the most aggressive Lane#1 ball produced. I don't know personally because I don't have one yet. I'm just going off how Lane#1 is positioning the ball.
Anyway, you're buying the ball because of it's advertised reaction. The starting OOB cover grit should be of little consequence. BTW, on any highly aggressive coverstock, you're going to be playing with the cover every 20-30 games if you want it to last and continue performing. It's a myth that you can keep the newer aggressive ball covers in OOB for long. It's just the nature of current coverstock technology. If you know what you're doing on a spinner, you can keep it very close to factory. In most cases, you can actually do better since you're tuning the cover to your specs instead of depending on a generic OOB finish. For me personally, I'll usually call one of the ball reps just to get their take before taking the cover adjustment plunge. Even when the cover grit is marked correctly, the insights and tips you get from having that conversation are valuable.
CRD: I noticed your extraordinary cut and paste skills going between the Brunswick and Lane#1 forums. Very nice. Who says you can't find redeeming value in even the most dull and ignorant??
You'll live a longer and happier life if you let that anger and chip on your shoulder go. Why do you take such exception to others pointing out areas of improvement? The fact is, you know little about any technical aspects of bowling. That becomes painfully clear anytime I drill into your comments. Just stop the charade, and the bowling forums will be a more tranquil place.
Edited on 3/6/2009 9:32 AM
Post by: 102101 on March 06, 2009, 08:28:07 AM
quote:
Because there are some really good, deep-thinking, polite, and knowledgable posters on this forum that I enjoy reading posts from. The few arrogant, conceited, blowhards that also populate this forum will not deter me from that. Perhaps you should take a look around the whole board and find out all the others who post in other places than their "home" forums.
I do see the others who post like you state not in their "home" forum. I was just wondering why create all the crap stirring but if that is what you want to do knock yourself out.
--------------------
102101? Hmmmm
www.blackhawklanes.com
Post by: Steven on March 06, 2009, 11:41:47 AM
quote:
I agree that the factory cover surface should be advertised accurately. Obviously, a mistake was made on the website. I too would rather have the correct info up front.
then you replied:
quote:
I also noticed that once again, when your fave company has made a boo boo, you can't really address it with anything other than stating that it's not that important.
Huh?? What goes on in that head of yours that consistently produces really obvious disconnects? It's not just this -- there is a pattern of it happening over and over. You talk about 'funny' all the time, but there isn't anything funny about you not responding to what's actually said. I'd appreciate an honest explanation.
quote:
I respect the guys who come on here and post coherent, right to the point posts about Lane #1.
Well, here is the translation in CRD speak -- "these guys have never called me out on my stupidity, so based on that they're OK in my book".
Wow, if that's how you evaluate things, it's sad. To come on a forum and get your panties bunched up because you're called on the carpet shows extreme mental weakness. Inverted1 and myself are able to go at it without any animosity because he's able to dish it with real background and knowledge, and where appropriate, take it and be honorable enough to deal with it. Maybe a role model you should consider.
Post by: BeansProShop on March 06, 2009, 03:16:44 PM
Melts in your mouth and not in your hands...
Except that one time they melted in my hand...
Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Post by: Steven on March 06, 2009, 03:16:54 PM
quote:
Damn, son, you truly are one conceited snob. You contradict yourself, really do have a condescending tone when you post, you're just a total piece of work.
What's your obsession with conceit or being a snob? Arn't you more interested in the truth than acting like a wounded animal? What from the following isn't true:
1) You avoid and deflect
2) You know nothing about Lane#1 equipment, which is odd since you're constantly trolling in the Lane#1 forum.
3) You don't really know if cover prep is actually 90% or 70% or some other XX% of reaction.
4) Regardless if cover is 90% or 70% of reaction, you couldn't discuss the techniques of cover preparation (abralon pad vs. brillo pad) if your life depended on it.
5) You don't rely on a core to make the ball move and the pins dance. I guess that means we should all be saving money and using cheap pancake core equipment.
6) The 'skills' you supposedly possess (because you remind us repeatedly) are yet to be shared.
Would you want to communicate with a bowler with a profile like yours? Do you know if Rocky is any different, or is it just the case of scraping bottom to add to your inner circle? Frankie Abralon and Harry Ballsogna arn't enough?
Back to bowling...You have to have some redeeming value, and I'd like to find it. So here is a question where you can add something with a real answer -- If cover is 70% of reaction instead of 90%, where is the other 30%? You've made it clear it's not the core, so what is it?
Post by: car191 on March 06, 2009, 03:31:27 PM
Ron
Post by: Rockbowler on March 06, 2009, 03:50:05 PM
quote:
Would you want to communicate with a bowler with a profile like yours? Do you know if Rocky is any different, or is it just the case of scraping bottom to add to your inner circle? Frankie Abralon and Harry Ballsogna arn't enough?
I did not want to get in the middle of your exchange with CRD but since you mention me by name, you leave me no choice. I don't have a profile like CRD. I do not use a profile so I can freely express my opinion without others denigrating my comments because they have a higher average.
CRD has a 217 average so that speaks for itself. But you have a 230 average so does that mean you are superior? I know you admit that you are a house hack but with all your supposed knowledge of core and coverstock, you use this knowledge and all your Lane 1 balls in one house on the same shot?
The measure of how good a bowler is in my opinion, in tournaments, whether scratch or handicap. How have you done in tournaments when you are competing on a tough shot and going head-to-head against people? I know I mentioned this before and I don't want to toot my horn but just to give you a dose of your own "condescending medicine" when you said that CRD is scraping bottom which is a clear reference to me, Steven, I have 3 ABT titles, the last one was in January, 2008 here in the Bay Area. What have you got? How have you fared in tournaments? Please enlighten us and if you really have more than this then I will bow to your superiority.
Edited on 3/6/2009 4:57 PM
Post by: jls on March 06, 2009, 03:51:21 PM
quote:
Has anyone actually contacted Lane 1 to inquire about whether 4000 grit surface on the Dynamo is a misprint as jls states? I emailed them this morning asking about it. I will post their reply when I receive it.
Ron
I believe it was Jim Ohio that posted that it was told that it was a misprint.
I think his post is in the locked thread started by Storm.
--------------------
jls
Decided to check this out directly with Lane 1. According to them, the ball is at 4000!!!!!!!
According to Buddies, the ball is at 4000.
By watching the video on the Lane 1 site shot on a house shot, it would appear that the ball has decent length, way too much length for a cover at 1000.
Edited on 3/9/2009 4:37 PM
Post by: Steven on March 06, 2009, 04:17:52 PM
quote:
I did not want to get in the middle of your exchange with CRD but since you mention me by name, you leave me no choice.
Rocky: You felt compelled to make disparaging comments about me in Nicanor's thread, where I didn't address you in any way. As far as 'you leave me no choice', you had a choice there, and made a rude one. So please, spare me the false indignation. If you have something to say, do it directly.
quote:
The measure of how good a bowler is in my opinion, in tournaments, whether scratch or handicap.
I don't disagree that this is one good measuring stick.
quote:
I have 3 ABT titles, the last one was in January, 2008 here in the Bay Area. What have you got? How have you fared in tournaments? Please enlighten us and if you really have more than this then I will bow to your superiority.
Rocky, I need to know more about the ABT before answering. 3 titles are impressive, but is it scratch or handicap? Is your competition limited in any way by average limits? I'm asking because you have a high league average of 185 since the 2003-2004 season. With a 185 THS average, are you really competing (and winning) head-to-head against 220+ average bowlers?
Post by: Rockbowler on March 06, 2009, 04:36:46 PM
quote:
Rocky: You felt compelled to make disparaging comments about me in Nicanor's thread, where I didn't address you in any way. As far as 'you leave me no choice', you had a choice there, and made a rude one. So please, spare me the false indignation. If you have something to say, do it directly.
What false indignation? You called me out and I responded. I did not make any disparaging comments about you. I shared my opinion of how you post and denigrate people on this board after you commented that my buddy Nicanor is complaining. What's the matter? The truth is getting to you now? And I addressed my comments to you directly, didn't I?
quote:
Rocky, I need to know more about the ABT before answering. 3 titles are impressive, but is it scratch or handicap? Is your competition limited in any way by average limits? I'm asking because you have a high league average of 185 since the 2003-2004 season. With a 185 THS average, are you really competing (and winning) head-to-head against 220+ average bowlers?
Steve, Steve, Steve, I have already told you what I got. Do not respond to a question with another question. Again:
1) Do you use all your core and coverstock knowledge and Lane 1 balls on the same shot in the same house?
2) How have you fared in tournaments?
Also to be fair, I will answer your question about ABT if you reply to my two questions first. And since I ask first, it is but natural that you respond first, right?
If you continue to dance around this, then that just means you have got nothing which means all your supposed "expertise and superiority" only exists in your own mind.
Edited on 3/6/2009 5:40 PM
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Post by: Anaconda on March 06, 2009, 06:19:24 PM
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Post by: Steven on March 06, 2009, 06:51:40 PM
quote:
1) Do you use all your core and coverstock knowledge and Lane 1 balls on the same shot in the same house?
For the most part, yes. I used to bowl in multiple leagues across different houses. Three of my sanctioned 300's have been in different houses. But I'm a single league house hack right now.
quote:
2) How have you fared in tournaments?
OK, but I don't have multiple awards to discuss. I bowl only uncapped scratch, so I'm matched up against solid talent, which almost always consists of quality PBA players (current and former). I've made to the finals in several WCST tournaments. Lots of checks, but no first place wins. The last Regional I bowled (in Dublin -- your neck of the woods), I just missed going onto Sunday match play. At that level (and at my age) I'm happy to finish in the top half of the field.
Probably my most prized finish was in the 2005 California State Tournament. I finished 3rd Scratch singles. As you know, the Cal State tournament is the largest in the nation. Over 7,000 bowlers participated that year. My 794 scratch singles set held as top in the tournament for almost two months, but was toppled by two other guys towards the end.
It's been fun going down memory lane. I don't know what all this has to do with anyone making the effort to acquire cover preparation skills, and then wanting to exchange information.
Now please give some insights into the ABT. Does the ABT allow PBA members to participate? Honestly, I'm interested in how your 185 league average translates to competing in scratch tournament competition.
quote:
If you continue to dance around this, then that just means you have got nothing which means all your supposed "expertise and superiority" only exists in your own mind.
There was no dancing. And my supposed "expertise and superiority" is something you've fabricated in your own mind. Anyway, I look forward to learning about the world of ABT.
Edited on 3/6/2009 7:56 PM
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Post by: Anaconda on March 06, 2009, 07:35:17 PM
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Anaconda
Post by: Steven on March 06, 2009, 07:50:44 PM
This is the Lane#1 forum and it's (supposed) purpose is for the exchange of Lane#1 information among Lane#1 users, and for others interested to ask useful questions about the product.
This thread is serving no useful purpose in promoting Lane#1, and I apologize for helping to allow it to get out of hand. I'm out on this one.
Post by: Steven on March 07, 2009, 07:36:55 AM
quote:
Atta girl, stevie. When the going gets tough and more and more people call you out, you bail. You are a giant, stinking, steaming turd and I am glad that you have shown yourself for what you are. I knew sooner or later the gild would come off the rose and your true colors would be revealed.
CRD: As always, you're a class act.
As I told you before, you don't have a clue about Rocky or what he brings to the table in 'calling me out'. And BTW, having some accomplishments a bit more illuminating that what you've offered, which is a big fat ZERO. Regardless, getting into who has the most trophies is a diversion from the real issue. The ability to talk about some of the technical aspects of bowling, and here in the Lane#1 forum, how it applies to Lane#1 equipment. Again, you come up another big fat ZERO. Instead of using your time to address your shortcomings, you hurl insults. quote:
Post what you want in reply, I am just going to ignore you (by the way, oh weak one, that is different than actully being put on an ignore list) like all other insignificant motes of dust.
So you come back and thump your massive chest, but make it clear that you're now going to tuck your tail and pull another 'duck and run'. First it was your ignore list (how long did that last?), now it's going to be a cold shoulder. Boo-Hoo.
Now Focus.......
All I said in my last post is that this is not the place to go round-and-round. Have some class and leave it out of a legitimate bowling board. If you want to start a topic in non-bowling miscellaneous, then go for it.
Edited on 3/7/2009 9:28 AM