Post by: Mr Buzzsaw on August 13, 2004, 01:34:19 AM
Lane #1 only puts out premium line bowling balls, and we price the product accordingly. We do offer a buy 4 get 1 free special on some new release's, for the pro shop guy to try out, or make an extra buck. But, when internet sellers try to take advantage of this, it makes them all fight and look bad (including us), by seeing who can undercut the other one prices each day. This is only good for 1 person, while the others are left holding the bag.
It also makes the rest of the pro shops look bad, because they're blasting low prices all over the internet. Like I stated earlier, this will knock out all the small guys, because the one with the deepest pockets and lowest prices will win, leaving only 1 place to buy.
Maybe Lane #1 should come out with 20 balls a year like some of the other guys, slash prices and oversell a bunch of balls, leaving the pro shops and distributors stuck with them, then, discounting them the next week even further to get rid of the glut? How would the customers who bought them the week before feel?
It's a tough and sticky situation for all of us, because we're trying to do the right thing, by putting out premium products, and making it fair for everyone to sell them. We feel we have the most loyal customers of any company, and would like to keep it that way. I guess no matter how hard you try, you just can't win.
Hopefully this situation won't discourage anyone from trying, using, or continuing to use our products, now or in the future.
Post by: solid9pin on August 13, 2004, 04:47:37 PM
ball line just works for me. I can literally buy the ball and it does
exactly what it says it does.
As for the internet sellers I know there is some out there that price them accordingly and then there are some who are trying to dominate the world.
I know how alot of them get the balls and how they are shipped and I generally know the prices they get the balls at since it is pretty much open to anyone if you ask on here. So I would go to the online shop that isn't trying to rape me
for the shipping and the price.
This is for the lane#1 bad mouthers -
I am sick of all the bad mouthing of Lane#1 The point is, If you don't like Lane#1 then don't buy it. You don't need to talk smack about it. let people make up their own minds about this fantastic ball line. We don't go into your storm
forum and talk smack so don't come over to our forum and talk smack. ball reviews
used to be a place where I could come and get info and now I come here all I see is people talking smack. This will most likely be my last post here cause I cant take the crap posts anymore.
Post by: hotwire13 on August 13, 2004, 05:12:35 PM
high end stuff and mid range equipment are close enough in most cases(even backwards in some situations) that there should be no reason for someone to have all premium equipment in their lineup. i am getting sick and tired of people who think that lane #1 equipment is worth the money because of "superior" performance, when most of you dont seem to be averaging any better than the rest of us using "inferior" equipment. if you buzzheads would stop buying these balls for awhile, then the prices would have to go down because of the supply/demand for the product. lane #1 is like exxon and mobil in the gas industry. they charge $.20 more per gallon than everyone else, and everyone complains, yet there are always idiots there filling up their tanks.
bowling has become economical, and has gone away from physical and mental...everyone is worried so much about their damn equipment that it seems like thats all that counts anymore...why dont you buy a "regular" ball and use the money you save to PRACTICE a few games?
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RED STRIPE
ITS BEER
HOORAY BEER!
Post by: Doug Sterner on August 14, 2004, 12:00:46 AM
If the price floor disappears and then only the big shops can get the deals, then the small shops go away. Fewer suppliers with an in demand product will lead to the big shops raising the prices and you'll end up paying more in the long run.
I know for a fact that before I got into the act some of the online guys were making $50+ per ball on Internet sales. My average mark up on the entire line is $10-15 now.
My peace has been said....
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb
And the Uranium blows them all away!
Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Post by: D McLaughlin on August 14, 2004, 12:47:53 AM
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Umm....Walter Ray....its customary to hand over your wallet AFTER I beat you. Its not like we haven't been through this a hundred times.
Post by: BeansProShop on August 14, 2004, 01:34:36 PM
"IN" my pro shop..I have absolutely no problem getting $229 for the new Lane#1 stuff...About $189 on Bullets/XXL etc. Why that is I do not know BUT If I put a price tag of over $175 on any other manufacturers balls...I can't sell them...People will bring them in from internet sales and think they are saving a ton of money...All prices above includes drilling as well...Because Lane#1 sets their prices at the level they do...I am able to have a PREMIUM line product in my shop...Also, I was the first person online to offer Lane#1 bowling balls in mass quantities and I never received any price breaks whatsoever from Lane#1....In turn I was able to sell these balls at a premium price and establish a very large,loyal customer base. THEN, other guys decided to jump on the bandwagon and start offering the balls at a cheaper price and before you knew it my sales went down..Of course I could have lowered my prices to compete but I refused to work for FREE!!! Competetive pricing is one thing but price cutting is all together different...To me, people who have to cut prices to sell balls must not be able to drill very well...The internet on the other hand...How much better service can you offer other than a better box to ship it in... Now I'm rambling but....You get the picture. Beans
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Thanks for reading and be sure to check out my current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=bubby856
Post by: brimar on August 16, 2004, 01:38:24 PM
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Go Yanks
Bri
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 16, 2004, 01:44:01 PM
quote:
you gonna be waitin a LOOOOONG time!
AMEN
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: livespive on August 16, 2004, 02:02:56 PM
Paying the middle man
IF I am not mistaken Lane1 only makes the core. They have to send them out to Big be to get the ball made so you have:
The cost of shipping the cores
The cost for Big B to do the work
The cost for shipping the balls back
They have these cost on top of everything that all the other ball makers have.
Even if Lane1 is not going to try and make a profit on the above 3 items
they still have to charge enough to break even on them.
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
Post by: Mr Buzzsaw on August 16, 2004, 02:44:17 PM
We don't want our product sitting on a shelf collecting dust in a particular pro shop. We also don't want the pro shop to have slash prices and lose big money on what they've purchased.
So, If a pro shop has a few balls they can't sell, we will take them back, giving them credit for the amount that they purchased them for, no problem. We take these balls and sell them to others who want them. This "service" is regular company policy and works well for us.
As far as Lane #1's cost's and pricing go, why should I have to explain our cost's or company policy to anyone, let alone in an open forum? I don't.
Do the other manufacturers have to explain their business, as far as pricing, ball productions, comps, staff, advertising, ect...ect...go? No they don't. That's their business.
If you want to slam me for what I've said or what I didn't say, then go right ahead.
It seems you don't appreciate me being here to answer some of your concerns, so I'll dissappear for a while, and let everyone here hash it out.
Edited on 8/16/2004 2:47 PM
Post by: solid9pin on August 16, 2004, 02:57:09 PM
quote:
As far as Lane #1's cost's and pricing go, why should I have to explain our cost's or company policy to anyone, let alone in an open forum? I don't.
hahaha that was the knock out punch to all you lane#1 haters!
He is right!
Post by: minimum bob on August 16, 2004, 03:19:50 PM
quote:
quote:
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As far as Lane #1's cost's and pricing go, why should I have to explain our cost's or company policy to anyone, let alone in an open forum? I don't.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hahaha that was the knock out punch to all you lane#1 haters!
He is right!
Not exactly....
As long as the company is private and relatively small, they really have no obligation to disclose anything to anyone.
However, if a company has an independent Board of Directors or gets commercial financing from a third party, it should be required to give some relevant information to certain outside parties.
Finally, if a company goes public, it will be required to meet certain legally-mandated disclosure requirements.
In any event, even a small private company (which I imagine Lane #1 is) would have to disclose at least some limited financial information to the IRS....
But, Mr. B is correct...he isn't obligated to tell us anything.
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It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
Edited on 8/16/2004 3:14 PM
Post by: brimar on August 16, 2004, 03:26:40 PM
See years ago i paid a hefty price for the original quantum and did no better with it than my i did with my rhino pro....Actually i could have bought 2 rhino pro's for what i paid for that quantum. 10 years later im still a little chaffed from that reamin!
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Go Yanks
Bri
Post by: Iketown300 on August 16, 2004, 06:33:27 PM
Mr. Buzzsaw-"Maybe Lane #1 should come out with 20 balls a year like some of the other guys, slash prices and oversell a bunch of balls, leaving the pro shops and distributors stuck with them, then, discounting them the next week even further to get rid of the glut?"
But then in his later post he replies to Bush Bin Lyin's question, Mr. Buzzsaw states that no proshops have to be stuck with Lane #1 equipment because they can trade it in to Lane #1 for a credit to purchase Lane #1 bowling balls in the future. Here is what he states:
Mr. Buzzsaw-" Mr Bush, to answer your question that you haven't already answered yourself, pro shops are not stuck with our equipment.
We don't want our product sitting on a shelf collecting dust in a particular pro shop. We also don't want the pro shop to have slash prices and lose big money on what they've purchased.
So, If a pro shop has a few balls they can't sell, we will take them back, giving them credit for the amount that they purchased them for, no problem. We take these balls and sell them to others who want them. This "service" is regular company policy and works well for us."
So if he states that this happens then there is no need for a price floor and pro shops can offer bowling balls no matter what company for any price they want right? I think so. If the "company policy has worked well for Lane #1" then why not continue to let this happen and continue to make everyone that previously bought buzzsaws i.e. Mrbowlingnut etc. happy. I know you stated that your pride yourself on the quality of the product and service but what about customer satisfaction and happiness. To me that would be the number 1 thing along with quality of the product. I don't think service is a huge problem because I have emailed brunswick and have not received emails from them back and this does not discourage me from buying brunswick products.
These are my thoughts, let me know what you guys think.
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Ike Brownfield
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 16, 2004, 08:12:30 PM
quote:
Unless you own only Wrangler jeans, cheap shoes and cheap shirts shut your mouthes about all this rip off stuff.
Well everyone, per the above, I am qualified as that is what I wear.
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: Lane Bed on August 17, 2004, 12:52:12 AM
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: Lane Bed on August 17, 2004, 12:55:53 AM
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: Lane Bed on August 17, 2004, 11:18:06 PM
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: shimozukawa on August 18, 2004, 07:47:30 AM
In addition, in each of the mentioned cases, the company or individual named had BIG financial problems.
Post by: Mike Austin on August 18, 2004, 12:47:57 PM
What do you think pro shops pay for these balls? When you buy Lane1 balls on the internet you are getting them at about the same or even less than what I (pro shop) can buy them for. Birddog was buying 4 or 8 balls and getting 1 or 2 free, lowering the per unit price. In turn, Precision (my shop) is going to put one of these on the shelf, and buy them from Birddog if I sold one. We would both get some benefit, I could run a special in the shop, $189.00 plus drilling and still make a "few" bucks.
Lane1 balls top end are regularly $229.00 plus drilling in my shop, and absolutely no discounts on Lane1 balls. I have one Black Cherry Bomb and that is it. I cannot afford to sit on that $180.00 per ball to display or stock Lane1 balls. The only reason I have that one is because we ordered it for someone who backed out. (I have never before heard of this credit policy Mr. Buzzsaw mentioned) I have about 100 balls on display plus bags, shoes, and accessories. I am considered #1 or #2 in the Houston area, and in the top 4-5 in Texas. If I can't afford to stock/display them, then how are the "little" guys going to?
Don't get me wrong, I like Lane1 products. They are made by Brunswick, we have the least defects from Brunswick made products than any other. I think Lane1 design is good, simple, nothing really new, but predictable. If I wasn't on Storm Staff, I would probably had drilled the two Cherry Bombs, those really interested me. I am not upset with Lane1 or how much they charge, for me it is just simple economics. Being tied to Birddog, I tried to take advantage of the sites ability to buy a little more bulk. We did this with the original Uranium, but did not offer a special price. We have done it with some Columbia and Brunswick balls in the past. I just don't like "being told" what I can sell my products for, either on the net or in my shop. I paid for it, I can sell it for whatever I want.
I'll let you guys in on another thing. In case you didn't know, Lane1 and Brunswick made stuff costs a little more to manufacture. Brunswick is in Michigan which is a strong union state. There are long time employees at Brunswick that make $20-$30 an hour. It just flat costs more for them to make bowling balls. My own opinion also is, since Lane1 isn't "buying" many thousands of every ball they market from Brunswick, Lane1's cost per unit is probably higher, plus Brunswick ships this balls to Lane1, this adds to the cost also.
Sorry so long, got to ranting.....
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Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
mike@birddogbowling.com
precisionproshop@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Storm VIP Shop Member
Brunswick Pro Source Member
Drilling and Tech Advice BirdDogbowling.com
Coming soon !!! BowlingBallAuctions.com
Coming soon !!! PrecisionProShop.Allbowling.com
Driller to many "Stars" and Tony Melendez too!
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2004, 01:11:42 PM
BTW, Mr. B, I doubt your postings go unappreciated. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us.
Post by: brimar on August 18, 2004, 01:33:15 PM
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Go Yanks
Bri
Post by: Steven on August 18, 2004, 01:35:58 PM
quote:
Why is it "free enterprise" and "capitalism" for Lane #1 to charge whatever they want for their products, but pro shops or web sites are NOT allowed to charge whatever we want? There is a supposed imposed "floor". If it is really free enterprise then we can charge whatever we want.
Mike: I think the disconnect here is that you are a reseller, not the primary owner. So if you choose to sell Lane#1 equipment, you do so under their terms and conditions. Conversely, when it comes to your personal labor and services, you can choose to charge whatever you want.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: Ragnar on August 18, 2004, 01:39:03 PM
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"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,"
I'm Ragnar Floggurass, and I approve this message
Post by: Mike Austin on August 18, 2004, 01:53:17 PM
quote:quote:
Why is it "free enterprise" and "capitalism" for Lane #1 to charge whatever they want for their products, but pro shops or web sites are NOT allowed to charge whatever we want? There is a supposed imposed "floor". If it is really free enterprise then we can charge whatever we want.
Mike: I think the disconnect here is that you are a reseller, not the primary owner. So if you choose to sell Lane#1 equipment, you do so under their terms and conditions. Conversely, when it comes to your personal labor and services, you can choose to charge whatever you want.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
I never signed any contract, there were never any "terms and conditions" mentioned. I haven't done it with them or any other company. Storm doesn't tell the distributors what price they can sell to pro shops at. Ragnar's post applies here.
I sell at the price "I" determine is correct for my business, I have no contract with anybody. Too high, people will go somewhere else. Too low, I lose money, unless I make it up in HUGE volume, which we are not doing (at this time LOL). That is free enterprise.
MikeA.
Edited on 8/18/2004 1:48 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on August 18, 2004, 01:56:57 PM
Did anyone here know that it was against GM "law" to sell the Chevy SSR for less than the sticker price? Shortly after thier introduction one of the local dealers was "caught" selling an SSR for $500 under the sticker price. Why did he do it? The customer wanted the vehicle but was not really fond of the yellow. He liked the blue one at the dealer in the next town over. So the dealer with the yellow one knocked off $500 to keep the guy's business.
When GM found out about this they blew a gasket and now refuse to sell him any of the SSR trucks as well as any of the new "limited" that they run like the Z-06 Corvette etc.
So if Lane 1 wants to set a price for their balls to be sold at, it is for them to do. They can do it and if a certain seller chooses to not obey the price mandate, Lane 1 has every right to refuse to sell to them ever again.
Also we really do need to get off the "who's is bigger and better?" kick here guys. I mean the entire Ford vs Chevy debate has gone on forever and will continue.
If people don't like the prestige and glitz of a nameplate than why does Cadillac even exist? It's nothing more than a Buick with a higher sticker price.
Why do people have Ferrari's? Lamborghinis?
Who needs a Z-06 Corvette? Won;t the regular one do the speed limit just fine?
Think about it people and do yourselves and everyone else a favor....
build a bridge and get over it!!!
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb
And the Uranium blows them all away!
Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 18, 2004, 06:04:32 PM
Is that language really necessary to get your point across?
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I just want 2C was'zzub.
____________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing!"
Post by: brimar on August 18, 2004, 06:23:37 PM
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Go Yanks
Bri
Post by: BeansProShop on August 20, 2004, 11:53:33 PM
To all this Internet debate and the small shops...
Let the people who want to buy through the internet do that. They have to get them drilled somewhere..Charge a premium price for drilling.. If you are reall that good..People will pay the extra money for your service.....I prove that in my area. Highest priced and still the busiest shop..Hands down... Try an Ala Carte srevice.. Charge a price for balls with out drilling included!!! Then give discounts on drilling if the ball is purchased in your shop...My Pro shop thrives on my IN SHOP services. Not on my INTERNET SALES!!!! We all should think together... Be better ball drillers and your shop will survive!!!
Beans
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 Pro Staff Member
Thanks for reading and be sure to check out my current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=bubby856
Post by: Iketown300 on August 21, 2004, 12:03:07 AM
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Ike Brownfield
Post by: Doug Sterner on August 21, 2004, 10:43:29 PM
Lane 1 is unique in that they actually do this. Over the last couple of years I have gotten NIB balls in on trade etc and was unable to sell them. The nice guys at Lane 1 were always willing allow me to trade anything I had NIB back in for other merchandise. In the case of balls I had gotten in trades, they didn't give me premium $$$ for them but they were always willing to let me swap in the old to get the new on the shelf.
Try that with Storm or Ebonite or Track sometime...they'll tell you to go F yourself.
On another note I do want to thank Lane 1 for what they have done and continue to do for the pro shop guys. The ball specials, incentive programs and most importantly the customer support is second to no other company in the business. Here's an example...
I recently attended a trade show and was unable to take advantage of some of teh specials which were presented at the show. Now here it is a few weeks later and I emailed a few of the companies and told them that I was searching for the new ball of balls that I could drill and use in our big league to attract attention to their brand. I did this with a Storm Eraser 3 years ago and sold a ton of them. All that any of the comnpanies did for me was offer to give me their trade show special...buy 4 get 1 free, buy 6 get 1 free, buy this package and we'll give you an extra free ball. At least I got responses from Track, Visionary and Dynothane. Ebonite, Hammer, Columbia, AMF and Brunswick didn't even bother to reply.
I'll stick to my Lane 1's...I think the Bullet may be the bal lI Want for league this year. We shall see.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb
And the Uranium blows them all away!
Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Post by: Iketown300 on August 21, 2004, 11:14:57 PM
PS Doug-I actually had a problem with a fear factor and had it plugged and redrilled and still it didn't do anything, my pro shop guy thought something was wrong with it and so I called up Storm, Vance sent me a Triple Xtreme x factor for my problems and so I would call that great customer service although it is not the exact same service offered here.
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Ike Brownfield
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on August 23, 2004, 01:15:05 AM
quote:He would feel like he got ripped off, but that would be his stupid a§s fault, because he should have known that the prices will eventually be cut down ever lower then they were! If you really have that much of a problem paying a lot of money for a bowling ball, then dont buy a bowling ball. Its as simple as that, if you want it, you have to pay for it, no matter what the price is. Yea you can find it cheaper here, or get this free there, but in the end you end up with a bowling ball, and less money. Simple as that. If your so conservative about spending, then you'd know to wait. If you got ripped off, too bad, thats your problem.
How would the customers who bought them the week before feel?
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: Iketown300 on August 23, 2004, 02:40:00 AM
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Ike Brownfield
Post by: Rev_O on August 23, 2004, 02:58:35 AM
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Rev-O
"I only have 3 boards to work with, and they all have arrows on them!!"
Edited on 8/23/2004 2:53 AM