Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on May 08, 2006, 06:14:46 AM
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Yes, there is enough oil and no, the ball is not rolling-out.
Is that your answer to everything in life?
Read my profile and you'll see why I can honestly say this.
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2006, 02:45:53 PM
I see Legends as the premium brand within Lanemasters. I sort of wish they hadn't made 2 different websites. I see that as a potential source of such confusion, as that which prompted this thread (if, of course, my opinion is correct).
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on May 08, 2006, 02:50:40 PM
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Yes, there is enough oil and no, the ball is not rolling-out.
Is that your answer to everything in life?
Read my profile and you'll see why I can honestly say this.
Post by: Walking E on May 08, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2006, 03:59:31 PM
quote:
So charlest, you Legends as being the "high performance" line of the Lanemasters line?
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-Joe
Brunswick Lefty
In general, yes.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2006, 04:07:05 PM
quote:
I would see Legends simply as a different line, not a "high performance" line of Lane Masters. I say this because the costs are pretty much the same for Lane Masters and Legends equipment. If one were considered a higher performance line then the costs would reflect this.
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
I have 2 comments:
1. Well, do you know what the costs are for the Legends balls vs the Lanemasters balls or, for that matter, the Inferno balls vs the Zone balls? (we don't actually know that Activator coverstocks cost more than PK 18 covers, unless,that is, you are a Brunswick executive or accountant; we have presumed that they cost more since they sell for more.)
2. Higher performance does not mecessarily mean the ball costs more to make. It only means the company believes and markets those balls as being "performance".
For my end, I have only seen the Lanemasters company publicizing their Legends balls as being "higher" (my word and interpretation, not necessarily their word) performance than those marketed as Lanemasters balls.
I know Lanemasters people have said that the diamonds that go into Legends balls cost more than the "super-carbon" that goes into Lanemasters balls, but the difference is not large.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: DP3 on May 08, 2006, 04:34:58 PM
Brunswick & BTV(Quantum)
...without the price gap.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2006, 05:00:24 PM
quote:
Lengends & Lanemasters
Brunswick & BTV(Quantum)
...without the price gap.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
But I don't believe that Brunswick ever compared their balls to QUamtum(s). Legends has no problem with that. They have a ball chart which compares length, flip and hook for all their balls. I doubt if B'wick ever "allowed" that,
, until recently.--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: manu57 on May 08, 2006, 09:28:05 PM
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The only difference between Genius and Stupidity is Genius has its Limits
Post by: Panic on May 08, 2006, 09:50:56 PM
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Lukas
\M/ METAL MILITA \M/www.bowlingkingdom.com
Post by: star on May 09, 2006, 07:19:43 AM
Could it be something to do with the designers.
That is doesnt Fred Borden design the Legends line.
Or does he design balls from both Lanemasters and Legends?
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK
.Did someone say tough luck
Want to learn to read lanes then visit:-
www.thebowlingprofessor44.com/
Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on May 09, 2006, 09:13:06 AM
quote:
The Legends would have a longer life span and cost $10-$15 more.
So you are saying that the Legends Satisfaxion will last longer than the LaneMasters Absolute Power? How is that?
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Yes, there is enough oil and no, the ball is not rolling-out.
Is that your answer to everything in life?
Read my profile and you'll see why I can honestly say this.
Edited on 5/9/2006 9:11 AM
Post by: manu57 on May 09, 2006, 11:14:17 AM
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The only difference between Genius and Stupidity is Genius has its Limits
Post by: T-GOD on May 09, 2006, 11:57:10 AM
LaneMasters doesn't use Carbon particles either. Those are just marketing names/terms to sell their product. =:^D
Post by: golfnutFL on May 09, 2006, 12:08:14 PM
quote:
It's the Premium brand. Sort of like Budweiser and Bud Select. You pay more for the Select, it has better ingredients, but it might not fit your taste like regular Bud does.
Actually, I believe that Bud Select is Budweiser's low-carb beer NOT its KING of beer, that's still regular Bud. Michelob is their Premium brand.
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Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
Post by: truexmiracle on May 09, 2006, 12:33:53 PM
Edited on 5/9/2006 12:34 PM
Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on May 09, 2006, 12:51:44 PM
quote:
why we using beer as an analogy.. Lolz...
Come on now. Bowling and beer go together like lamb and tuna fish.
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Yes, there is enough oil and no, the ball is not rolling-out.
Is that your answer to everything in life?
Read my profile and you'll see why I can honestly say this.
Post by: charlest on May 09, 2006, 01:45:05 PM
quote:quote:
The Legends would have a longer life span and cost $10-$15 more.
So you are saying that the Legends Satisfaxion will last longer than the LaneMasters Absolute Power? How is that?
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Yes, there is enough oil and no, the ball is not rolling-out.
Is that your answer to everything in life?
Read my profile and you'll see why I can honestly say this.
I remain highly doubtful that this is the case.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on May 09, 2006, 01:46:31 PM
quote:
Supposedly, the materials used in the Legends are higher quality than the Lanemasters.
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The only difference between Genius and Stupidity is Genius has its Limits
AS of this moment in time, the only difference I know of between Legends and LAnemasters balls is in their particle balls: Legends uses diamonds and Lanemasters uses "Super-Carbon" (whatever that may be.).
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Walking E on May 09, 2006, 10:08:04 PM
quote:quote:
I would see Legends simply as a different line, not a "high performance" line of Lane Masters. I say this because the costs are pretty much the same for Lane Masters and Legends equipment. If one were considered a higher performance line then the costs would reflect this.
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
I have 2 comments:
1. Well, do you know what the costs are for the Legends balls vs the Lanemasters balls or, for that matter, the Inferno balls vs the Zone balls? (we don't actually know that Activator coverstocks cost more than PK 18 covers, unless,that is, you are a Brunswick executive or accountant; we have presumed that they cost more since they sell for more.)
2. Higher performance does not mecessarily mean the ball costs more to make. It only means the company believes and markets those balls as being "performance".
For my end, I have only seen the Lanemasters company publicizing their Legends balls as being "higher" (my word and interpretation, not necessarily their word) performance than those marketed as Lanemasters balls.
I know Lanemasters people have said that the diamonds that go into Legends balls cost more than the "super-carbon" that goes into Lanemasters balls, but the difference is not large.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Allow me to re-state: not the cost to manufacture, market, distribute, etc., but the price for a consumer to purchase the ball. The prices are virtually identical, if not absolutely identical.
If you are a bowling company and you have two lines of equipment and one of them is considered "premier", by definition the other line must be considered lesser. So if the initial cost to own the ball is the same and yet one is a premier line and the other isn't, one of two things are happening to those people who buy this equipment:
1) The LaneMasters purchasers are getting ripped off
2) The Legends purchasers are getting a bargain
I prefer to think that neither of these is the case, and that the balls are considered "separate but equal". Any terms associated with the equipment ("premier", etc.) are simply marketing terms, and not a reflection of one line's performance against the other's.
IMHO, of course
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: charlest on May 10, 2006, 09:32:54 AM
quote:
Allow me to re-state: not the cost to manufacture, market, distribute, etc., but the price for a consumer to purchase the ball. The prices are virtually identical, if not absolutely identical.
I know that it is true on the internet. It kind of suprises me a little, but not all that much. Considering the relatively trivial differences in diamonds vs super-carbon (which is the only diff I see or know about), I think the major reason for the internet price sameness is that the factor that these balls have a larger amount of hands-on labor in the manufacturing process than do other balls. I am not sure exactly how much, since I never visited the factory. I think the labor charge must out-weigh the parts price difference to such a large degree that the cost per ball is not different.
quote:
I prefer to think that neither of these is the case, and that the balls are considered "separate but equal". Any terms associated with the equipment ("premier", etc.) are simply marketing terms, and not a reflection of one line's performance against the other's.
IMHO, of course
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
That is possible. However I thought I remember reading somewhere that they did consider the Legends balls to be their premium line. I've kept that idea in my head without remembering the source. Oddly, maybe psychosomatically, I'e had more success with the Legends balls than with the Lanemasters balls.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: stanski on May 10, 2006, 11:52:40 PM
There may be diamond particles in the legends balls, but the percentage would have to be very small and they would have to be very very tiny or else they would create a coverstock much too hard. For this reason, i really doubt those particles are much different or last any longer than other particles.
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stanski
Post by: charlest on May 11, 2006, 05:04:27 AM
quote:
I agree that "super carbon" versus "diamond" are ambiguous marketing terms. First of all, carbon is usually in two states, diamond or graphite. I am assuming that they are not using graphite in the balls, so the diamond would be the one they are using. But, diamonds would be much too hard or have to be in a very small amount in the coverstock, so i am assuming it is some sort of plastic compound that happens to have carbon on there and when everyone hears carbon, they think of "carbon steel" which is supposedly "better" steel. For this reason, the marketing directors decided to add "carbon," kind of like how other companies add random numbers and letters to make them sound hi-tech.
There may be diamond particles in the legends balls, but the percentage would have to be very small and they would have to be very very tiny or else they would create a coverstock much too hard. For this reason, i really doubt those particles are much different or last any longer than other particles.
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stanski
I think you're making assumptions here, and your bottom line is they are lying???
"For this reason, i really doubt those particles are much different or last any longer than other particles."
Their coverstocks are lasting a LONG, LONG time without tracking out; in fact, with hardly any scratches at all. Have you tried any?
They have said they use diamond dust as the particles. The Yeah Baby! is supposed to have a heavy load. That is, of course, a relative term.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: stanski on May 11, 2006, 02:09:54 PM
Sure I say that the company is lying in its marketing, but I will say that about nearly every bowling company on the market. It is just a way to sell balls, which they have a right to do. Having been around golf for a long time, I see these marketing techniques all the time with new golf clubs. I don't see any reason why it would be any different for bowling (or any signs that it is any different).
Here are some quick examples:
The exception 5.0 claims to have a spin time of 5 seconds... this consistently does not happen on the determinator.
The paradigm claims to be a pearl reactive cover... yet it is known by most people now that it is a pearl particle.
Lane 1... need I say more about them?
Brunswick claimed that assymetric balls were a pure marketing scheme in the 90s, yet they now come out with assymetrics.
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stanski
Post by: charlest on May 11, 2006, 03:32:53 PM
quote:
Charlest... I was referring to the particles from lanemasters versus legends, not compared to other companies. It is my belief that they do not last any longer or shorter when compared to eachother. Sorry for the confusion.
That comparison I haven't made. I don;t think Lm/L claims one or the other.
quote:
Sure I say that the company is lying in its marketing, but I will say that about nearly every bowling company on the market. It is just a way to sell balls, which they have a right to do. Having been around golf for a long time, I see these marketing techniques all the time with new golf clubs. I don't see any reason why it would be any different for bowling (or any signs that it is any different).
The essence of Madison Ave. is the lie you cannot prove or disprove. It's been that way for 60-75 years now. So you really can't say one company propagandizes (if there is such a word) more blatantly than another, ESPECIALLY when it comes to bowling balls,.
quote:
Here are some quick examples:
The exception 5.0 claims to have a spin time of 5 seconds... this consistently does not happen on the determinator.
The paradigm claims to be a pearl reactive cover... yet it is known by most people now that it is a pearl particle.
Lane 1... need I say more about them?
Brunswick claimed that assymetric balls were a pure marketing scheme in the 90s, yet they now come out with assymetrics.
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stanski
I completely understand where you're coming from, but you also know I don't lie or prevaricate. I am saying that the Legends balls I have been using wear very much better than any other ball I have ever used except my Brunswick Riot Zone. (That cover Brunswick should never have given up on; it is incredible.) Their (Lm/L) coverstocks seem toput up with a lot of abuse and show less, significantly wear (not "none", mind you) than almost every othe rball I have used in the past 10+ years. I think they are worth trying, even at their price level (still less than Lane#!'s, all joking aside).
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Laybzz74 on May 16, 2006, 03:47:46 PM
(Same people, same company)--------------------
Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters balls ... Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM
Post by: Retroman on May 16, 2006, 09:18:32 PM
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Tripping 10's, Its all about entry angle into the hole!!
Can you hear that? It sounds like a SAW
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