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Author Topic: 100% of 230???  (Read 17436 times)

adiabaticprocesses

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100% of 230???
« on: August 24, 2016, 10:40:05 AM »
I just want to know what you guys/ladies think of the handicap being 100% of 230. I bowl on Tuesday nights. Through hard work and dedication to this sport of bowling, I have increased my average to 230. I am the only person in the league over a 220 average. I am 1 of 2 over 215. The league's average as a whole is only 187. I forgot to mention the league does not play just by team score (handicap score after each game) but also individual team members handicap games. So the team can win up to 4 single points (1 from each team member) and two team points for each individual game, which means up to 18 pts could be scored every night.

Last night, I compared my individual scratch games (178,202, and 278) to how everyone shot and noticed I would not stand a chance even had I thrown average the first two games. There were many handicap games of 250+, 270+, 290+ and a few 310+. To be precise, there were 40 handicap games over 260. So in other words and correct me if I am wrong, if I mess up (not strike) more than 2 times, I do not stand a chance in the league. It sounds like a sandbaggers format to me. Tell me what you guys think.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 11:11:51 AM by adiabaticprocesses »

 

LyalC52

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 10:54:17 AM »
when using a 100% difference for handicap, it's not about the scratch score, it comes down to pins over and under average for everyone

what are they using for entering averages? after a few weeks real averages should come into play and you will see the scores closer to 230 across the board

every system can be sandbagged
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AMF300bowler

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 11:08:25 AM »
!00% handicap leagues are really pins over average leagues. Lower average bowlers will ALWAYS have the advantage since they have more room between their average and 300.

I won't bowl in 100% handicap league and I cringe to bowl in 90% handicap leagues. 80% handicap leagues are the best.
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SVstar34

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 11:12:41 AM »
In a handicap league you can't give away the pocket or miss spares at all if you're averaging the base number. You're bowling scratch in a handicap league.

You'll lose every time you bowl 220-250 if a 160 bowler throws a game in the 180s. Like the people said before me, it's about pins under/over average

itsallaboutme

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 11:22:34 AM »
A 230 average should be bowling in such a league for the social aspect, not looking for an advantage.

Steven

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 11:25:45 AM »
There was a time where I had a problem with 100% or even 90% handicap. I've got to the point where it just doesn't matter.
 
Part of the reason is that I almost exclusively bowl scratch. I win or lose based on my own performance, and don't have to worry about pins given to others.
 
But when I do get roped into bowling handicap, I've found over time that in most cases, even 100% doesn't make much difference. Most adult recreational bowlers are what they are, and vary little in their average from year-to-year. They don't practice, they don't improve, and few are capable of exploiting the 100% scenario.
 
Just last week I decided to join an upcoming senior daytime league with my mom to spend more time with her. The league has a 100% of 220 for their handicap. I called the league President to tell her I was going to sign up, and suggested she change the handicap to 100% of 230. I don't want handicap working in favor of my 225+ average, and certainly don't want any negative perceptions by others in the league. She appreciated the thought, but said the rules had already been voted on, and if necessary, can be revisited in the middle of the season. I'll certainly push the issue if I bowl well.
 
The bottom line is to chill and go with the situation. Bowl scratch if you want to eliminate the stress of handicap schemes.

charlest

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 11:44:38 AM »
I think what you're seeing is a few snapshots of the handicap situation. Yes, It's harder to bowl your average when you're up in the 220s, 230s but things do average out.

At different times, the ABC and, more recently, the USBC have calculated that it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 110% to 115% handicap for the handicap bowler to beat the scratch bowler. So with a 100% handicap, you technically, in the long run, still have the advantage.
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Impending Doom

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 11:54:24 AM »
This is why I avoid bowling anything handicap if I can. There's a scratch sport league near me I might join, and sweepers that are scratch. I try not to do ABT because I can sniff a bagger a mile away, and it's not good for my blood pressure. I start having a mild bout of touriettes.

todvan

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 12:06:03 PM »
I would avoid 100% handicap leagues.  This league is catering to the average joe bowler and at 230 you are out of place.   Go scratch. 
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txbowler

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 01:42:44 PM »
I would avoid 100% handicap leagues.  This league is catering to the average joe bowler and at 230 you are out of place.   Go scratch. 

We consistently have posts about this.  And here is the reality.  Someone must lose.  In every league/tournament, you must have donators. 

No one I know of joins a league to lose it.  You join the league thinking you have a chance to win it. 

As others have posted, over the long 30+ week season, the higher average bowler or team will win MOST of the time.  But sometimes you lose.  And yet you are here posting that the HDCP % is too high because you lost.  Yet you are fine if the lower average bowler loses every year.  You seem to think it is ok and acceptable for that lower average bowler to play in the league and lose every year.

I can only speak for me.  If I was only a team that constantly finished in the bottom of the league for 2-3 years in a row, I am either changing teams or quitting the league.

There is a big money: $80,000 prize fund league where I bowl.  Last year there was 37 teams in the league.  38 the year prior.  This will be the 3rd year since raising the weekly fee to $30.  And what is happening?  8-10 teams are quitting because they are tired of being donators in the league.  Both years since the increase in fees which led to the big prize, the same 10-12 teams are battling for the top spots.  The league is HDCP but most teams get less than 10 pins a game as the top teams are 3 big averages.

No one wants to be a donator, yet the posts here seem to indicate that the high average bowlers expect the lower averages to just be a donator and accept it.

briandking1906

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2016, 01:50:14 PM »
Don't do it if you plan on having a team that is composed of some good bowlers.  You will simply be donating money.  I was in one about 2 seasons ago, with a 5 man team.  It was a mixed league (5 people per team), in the sense that both men and women were in the league, but the teams had to be entirely male or female.

Anyway, our team was pretty stacked with talent along with maybe 2 other teams.  On average, we had to give a team anywhere from 250 to 450 pins in total team handicap based upon the league being handicap being 100% of 230.  As a team we had a great group of guys and enjoyed bowling with each other, but by in large we did not have a chance to succeed.  We were basically bowling every week for pots, brackets, or individual/team scratch accomplishments.  When it was all said and done, out of about 22 teams, we finished dead last.  Scratch wise we blew everyone out of the water, but there was no way we could consistently give up that many pins every week and hope that people would never bowl over their average.
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Steven

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2016, 03:15:00 PM »

We consistently have posts about this.  And here is the reality.  Someone must lose.  In every league/tournament, you must have donators. 

No one I know of joins a league to lose it.  You join the league thinking you have a chance to win it. 

As others have posted, over the long 30+ week season, the higher average bowler or team will win MOST of the time.

 
It really depends on the demographic of the handicap league you're in. If it's a league that regularly attracts younger bowlers who want to get better and do throughout the season, the team with higher average bowlers will not win most of the time. This was the profile of the last handicap league I was in. Even though my team was regularly the highest average team, we never finished higher than the middle.
 
On the other hand, if the higher average team is in a league of mostly mature bowlers who have peaked, they have a really good chance of winning over the long haul. It's never easy finding the happy medium.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 03:32:06 PM by Steven »

mrwizerd

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2016, 03:31:15 PM »
One league I bowl in runs at 90% of 230, we put a max handicap rule (game and series) in the constitution. The max handicap a bowler can have is 81 pins per game and I think its 325 pins for series.  Those limits still give the handicap bowler quite a bit of handicap and it doesn't remove the possibility for a win by a high average bowler either.

txbowler

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 03:47:25 PM »
OK, Someone please explain your thinking here.

For even numbers sake, lets say we have a 20 team league where 10 teams are the "high" average teams and all average within 20 pins (5 pins per bowler) of each other and the other ten are low average teams that are 75 pins or worse below the high average teams.

Only 1 team gets to win the league.  So in 5 years, 5 out of the 10 high average teams have won the league, and every team in the high group has a couple top 5 finishes.  That assumes that none of the low teams ever has a hot year and sneaks into the top 10.

Explain to me why the bottom 10 teams even bother to bowl the league?

If you are going to set the rules so that the bottom teams have no realistic shot, why do you expect them to bowl.

I don't want to hear well they need to improve etc.  The standard crap us high average bowlers say.

It is just amazing that because they are so good, high average bowlers believe that low average teams shall bowl leagues against them and just donate.

Yet, those same bowlers will bitch and moan, or quit if all of a sudden a team of 240 averages joins their league and starts dominating.

Can you please explain it to me?

Impending Doom

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 04:03:18 PM »
OK, Someone please explain your thinking here.

For even numbers sake, lets say we have a 20 team league where 10 teams are the "high" average teams and all average within 20 pins (5 pins per bowler) of each other and the other ten are low average teams that are 75 pins or worse below the high average teams.

Only 1 team gets to win the league.  So in 5 years, 5 out of the 10 high average teams have won the league, and every team in the high group has a couple top 5 finishes.  That assumes that none of the low teams ever has a hot year and sneaks into the top 10.

Explain to me why the bottom 10 teams even bother to bowl the league?

If you are going to set the rules so that the bottom teams have no realistic shot, why do you expect them to bowl.

I don't want to hear well they need to improve etc.  The standard crap us high average bowlers say.

It is just amazing that because they are so good, high average bowlers believe that low average teams shall bowl leagues against them and just donate.

Yet, those same bowlers will bitch and moan, or quit if all of a sudden a team of 240 averages joins their league and starts dominating.

Can you please explain it to me?


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