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Author Topic: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series  (Read 8520 times)

Dogtown

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1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« on: May 28, 2014, 03:35:52 PM »
I saw something while at the bowling stadium in Reno that talked about a huge team score shot in 1958.

March 12, 1958, The Budweiser team of St. Louis - featuring future ABC Hall of Famers Ray Bluth, Don Carter, Tom Hennessey, Pat Patterson and Dick Weber - rolled an ABC record 3,858 series in Masters League play at Floriss Lanes in north St. Louis.

That is an average of 771 per man.  In that series two 300's were shot.

Just goes to show, the right ball on the right lane condition thrown by the right style bowler can shoot lights out, no matter what.  Not to mention they were pretty good, too.

 

milorafferty

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 04:21:14 PM »
I didn't know Pat Patterson was that old. He doesn't look it from his profile picture here.


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Bigmike

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 04:28:35 PM »
If they were doing Peterson points, I think Don Carter would have lost 2 and totals. We were laughing about that looking at the score sheet when we were out there.
"Tell me Cup, how does a great ball striker like you shoot an 83? Well I lipped out this putt on 18......"

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charlest

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 07:20:01 PM »
I didn't know Pat Patterson was that old. He doesn't look it from his profile picture here.


 ;D ;D

Did you know that Pat Paterson threw a 2 finger, finger-tip rubber ball? He was old, old school, not using the ring finger. He was one of my favorites from the 1950s. For a big man, he had lots of style and grace, like Mr. Billy Welu.

I would have given a couple of pints of blood to be there, to see when this was shot with RUBBER  BALLS!!!!!

"Good" doesn't begin to describe these guys' ability.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 08:34:59 PM by charlest »
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xrayjay

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 02:00:49 AM »
I almost believed Pat Patterson joke... :D

I started reading from the latest post and up....my bad hehe
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1hack

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 09:09:51 AM »
The right pair of lanes seemed to have been the real key. Not all to diminish the accomplishment of the Budweiser's score.
  In 1937 a team named Hermann Undertakers bowled a record score that stood until the night the Buds broke the record. Both record scores were bowled on the same pair of lanes.

avabob

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 09:46:44 AM »
According to many reports, the Buds record series was bowled on shellac finish, the predominant lane finish prior to WW 2, but still in use during the 50's in some locations.  Why is the piece of trivia relevant.  Because shellac was a notoriously high scoring lane finish.  Many records set on shellac prior to the war lasted for 20-40 years, including Skang Mercurios 237 average for a season, and Allie Brandts 886 series, along with the afore mentioned team series.

I bowled in several St Louis houses during the 1978 ABC tournament.  they were all dead easy.  One of them ( Arcade Lanes, I believe ) had a team tournament where the Buds record very nearly got beat by a team from out in Oregon.  They supposedly took the shot down some after that, but we shot almost 3500 without really bowling that well.     

MrNickRo

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 10:34:16 AM »
Any idea why the shellac finish scored higher?

Dogtown

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 11:01:08 AM »
So, have todays balls and THS oil patterns REALLY changed anything?  It's obvious there were ways to make scoring conditions high back then.

Before anyone floods this thread, yes todays equipment has made it easier for the masses.  I'm just amazed by what they were able to do back then.




avabob

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 12:56:32 PM »

Shellac scored high because it was a thick soft finish that was not typically oiled.  the balls quickly burned a deep track into the finish that acted like a funnel to the pocket.  There was a reason that nobody saw the need to throw anything but 2 hole conventional balls for so many years.  It was all about dumping the ball into the track with some spin or a full roller.  Powerful releases of today would cause the ball to jump the track. 

A new coat of shellac was mopped on to the lanes every few days.  It probably played tough for a few games.

There really were never a lot of bowlers who seriously pursued the game prior to the introduction of automatic pinsetters.  Those who did scored remarkably well with hard rubber balls.  When lacquer replaced shellac scoring dropped significantly until they started oiling the lacquer.  Lane men didn't really have to wall the shot too much because the oil tracked pretty quickly in the lacquer anyway.  It did put a premium on stronger releases with more end over end roll.   When polyurethane finishes replaced lacquer scoring again dropped until softer balls were introduced, and lane men became even more inventive in applying oil.  Most people today don't really know the history of lane finishes and their impact on scoring and lane conditioning.  Prior to the 60's the ABC was not even concerned about using oil to enhance scores.  A more popular practice had been to physically build a track in the finish to steer balls to the pocket.  Walling with oil was not considered an issue compared to the more blatant practices.       

MrNickRo

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 02:22:42 PM »
Thanks for the detailed explanation.  Very interesting.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 01:51:21 AM »
Avabob,

Thanks for the info.  Appreciate it.

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avabob

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 02:01:28 PM »
They don't talk about it today, but the ABC considered scoring to be out of control in the late 30's.  When you look at the relatively few bowlers really pursuing the game seriously most of them scored very well.  Despite a sanctioning body and rules, the game really wasn't far removed from the pool room atmosphere that, the reputation of which, saddled the game for many years

mainzer

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 02:04:43 PM »
 
Great info.

Funny how this info never comes up when people are whining about the elite players blowing a hole in the pattern at Nationals. Shows that the SPORT of bowling is based heavily on how well a bowler can adjust to changing lane conditions and equipment to score

Scoring pace goes up and down periodically


Shellac scored high because it was a thick soft finish that was not typically oiled.  the balls quickly burned a deep track into the finish that acted like a funnel to the pocket.  There was a reason that nobody saw the need to throw anything but 2 hole conventional balls for so many years.  It was all about dumping the ball into the track with some spin or a full roller.  Powerful releases of today would cause the ball to jump the track. 

A new coat of shellac was mopped on to the lanes every few days.  It probably played tough for a few games.

There really were never a lot of bowlers who seriously pursued the game prior to the introduction of automatic pinsetters.  Those who did scored remarkably well with hard rubber balls.  When lacquer replaced shellac scoring dropped significantly until they started oiling the lacquer.  Lane men didn't really have to wall the shot too much because the oil tracked pretty quickly in the lacquer anyway.  It did put a premium on stronger releases with more end over end roll.   When polyurethane finishes replaced lacquer scoring again dropped until softer balls were introduced, and lane men became even more inventive in applying oil.  Most people today don't really know the history of lane finishes and their impact on scoring and lane conditioning.  Prior to the 60's the ABC was not even concerned about using oil to enhance scores.  A more popular practice had been to physically build a track in the finish to steer balls to the pocket.  Walling with oil was not considered an issue compared to the more blatant practices.       
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MainzerPower

avabob

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Re: 1958 Budweiser Team of St. Louis; 3,858 series
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2014, 03:11:01 PM »
Just an added note on old time scoring and bowlers.  A few years ago I rented a video from the ABC of a Championship Bowling match circa 1954 between the great Ned Day and a 21 year old youngster named Glen Allison.  I had never seen any film of Ned Day, and was shocked when I watched the match.  Day threw a big looping full roller with a figure eight release.  His follow through was as likely to be across his belt buckle as it was forward.  Allison already had the great release that would, many years later, yield the first 900 series.

Not sure what surface they were bowling on, but in this match Allison never had a chance.  Day looped his full roller out between 2nd and 3rd arrow and flirted with a 700 series despite seemingly never coming out of the ball the same twice in a row.  Allison couldn't crack 580 on a shot that seemed to either hook early if he squared up, and hang if he swung it even a little