Author Topic: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on (Read 19139 times)

txbowler · « **on:** March 14, 2013, 10:35:36 AM »

I wonder why today's bowlers seem to be stuck on what I fell is the old standard of 200 equals an elite bowler?

And maybe we are still in the transition period of generations of bowlers where the older bowlers were still young when 200 was the realistic standard back in the 60's-80's.

Or are they basing off the stupid PBA card requirement?

Let's be honest, on today's house conditions, elite is at least 215 in my opinion.

And I understand that it means we no longer can compare generations of bowlers.

But think about it, if you were old enough today to be involved with bowling in the 70's and 80's and you met a bowler, and asked him what he averaged, and he said 205, you'd think he was pretty darned good.

Meet a bowler today, ask him what he averages, and he says 205, I don't know about everyone else, but I think oh, average house hack.

The standard has evolved. Doubt it will ever go back. Adapt to to 215 not 200 and move on.

MrNickRo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:01:44 AM »

I feel it has more to do with resources. Sure equipment inflates scores, but people start bowling earlier and more often.

I currently average 215 for the year and I started bowling weekly when I was 9 (currently 24). Fifteen years of youth experience and collegiate sport patterns got me to where I am today. I'm sure I come off as some house hack because I hook the ball and don't have a ton of focus, but I'd imagine that fifteen years of practice and dedication would put somebody at an elite level 30 years ago.

Perhaps people have the ability to practice more, start younger, and get better coaching. It's far easier to emulate good form when you see it on TV or the computer screen.

I've been trying not to chime in on this topic because I enjoy bowling big scores from time to time. I go to tournaments and am perfectly happy with 650s, and I don't see this changing.

I'd rather bowl pot games after league and see high scores because it's more fun. 'Deal with it and move on' may seem a bit harsh, but meh.

milorafferty · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:06:40 AM »

I don't understand why so many people here have such an issue with this. There are a lot of bowlers who have not figured out how to score on a "house shot", much less flat oil.

I bowl in a couple of scratch leagues. One where everyone is over 200 and most are in the high 220's to low 230's, a couple in the 240's. The other has some older guys, and there are a few under 200 bowlers, but over all most are 200+ with the league average probably around 215 to 220.

I also bowl in a handicap league. 36 teams of 4, so with a few subs around 160 bowlers. There are maybe 10 people with a 200 or higher average. If you are a 140 average bowler, 200 looks pretty darn good in that league.

What's wrong with just letting these people enjoy themselves? It's a game that doesn't always have to be a sport.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:09:58 AM »

Maybe its just me, but "Elite" is a much higher number than 215. I'd rather use the "average or par" terminology when using 200 or 215 or whatever number you're using.

In my opinion (center dependant) is "elite" would be 225+ or higher. I know a hand full of guys that average upwards of 220 and are as you say "league house hacks".

Just my opinion

MrNickRo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:14:24 AM »

Quote from: milorafferty on March 14, 2013, 11:06:40 AM

I don't understand why so many people here have such an issue with this. There are a lot of bowlers who have not figured out how to score on a "house shot", much less flat oil.

I bowl in a couple of scratch leagues. One where everyone is over 200 and most are in the high 220's to low 230's, a couple in the 240's. The other has some older guys, and there are a few under 200 bowlers, but over all most are 200+ with the league average probably around 215 to 220.

I also bowl in a handicap league. 36 teams of 4, so with a few subs around 160 bowlers. There are maybe 10 people with a 200 or higher average. If you are a 140 average bowler, 200 looks pretty darn good in that league.

What's wrong with just letting these people enjoy themselves? It's a game that doesn't always have to be a sport.

People like living in the glory days

I enjoy a good sport shot to see arrogant people get taken down a notch. I've always told my friends/family that my goal isn't to impress anyone, it's to piss people off. There is nothing better than having head to head points and beating the people who get the most frustrated.

txbowler · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:16:50 AM »

I must have said my opinion wrong or something.

My point was why do people keep posting on here about wanting to reign back scoring so that 200 is again the magic elite level?

Why are bowlers unwilling to accept that 215, or 225 is the new definition of what an elite bowler is?

What is it about the "200" score that people are still focused on?

Thanks,

the_l3g3nd_killer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:18:39 AM »

I am a house hack. I average 243, 234 and around 230 in another, put me on a sport pattern I am about 185 average.

Russell · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:19:54 AM »

Average really doesn't mean much anymore....I average 10 pins higher than a national title holder in my area and I am nowhere NEAR the bowler he is. There are bowlers that average higher than me that are nowhere NEAR the bowler I am....

It's all relative to matchup now. It's like saying you shot 73 in golf....but leave out that you played an executive course...

MrNickRo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:25:51 AM »

Quote from: txbowler on March 14, 2013, 11:16:50 AM

I must have said my opinion wrong or something.

My point was why do people keep posting on here about wanting to reign back scoring so that 200 is again the magic elite level?

Why are bowlers unwilling to accept that 215, or 225 is the new definition of what an elite bowler is?

What is it about the "200" score that people are still focused on?

Thanks,

Glory Days!!!!

I like to judge bowling ability by watching. I know many people who would pick me for a team over some higher average folks.

Russell · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:44:18 AM »

To answer "why bring it back to 200"...

It's not about making the bar 200...I think some of us would like to see 300 and 800 mean a lot more than they do now. Don't get me wrong...they are special...but not like they used to be. If the averages come down the honor scores will follow. USBC will also stop hemorrhaging money on 50,000+ rings each year.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2013, 12:01:42 PM »

The easiest way to know who your local elite bowlers are is to check on their wins. Average means nothing, especially from house to house. Honor scores aren't as relative either. Elite bowlers are measured in wins. If they bowl in one house and never do much else then they aren't elite. If they bowl the tournaments in their state and region and put up scores and bring home wins then you have your answer.

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2013, 12:04:28 PM »

200 average is elite.... If you are bowling on the US open pattern.

Realistically, on a house pattern, 230+ average is elite. One league I sub in has a handful of guys in the 240's and probably 8 to 10 in the 230 range. To be elite, note only do you need physical skills, but also knowledge of reactions, adjustments, Surfaces, etc. Most house shot 200 average bowlers are missing one or more of those components.
Scott

Bowling 300 900 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2013, 12:06:18 PM »

There is such a huge disparity from house to house anymore in the type of house conditions you can no longer associate an average to the skill of the bowler. You can bowl in a place where 230 is the 25th best average in the house and you can go to another "easy" house and 230 is in the top 5. There are just too many types of "easy" and too many types of "hard".

You can bowl in one area of the state and the lanes are dry and then you can travel 2 hours away and the house shots are a heavy oiled. Bowlers at both places average in the 230s and think the shot is "easy".

trash heap · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2013, 12:08:05 PM »

My take....What has happend is that accuracy, power, and adjustments have been all but removed from the equation. Today you have a "game" (not a sport) that everyone has the better chance to score high and have fun.

Also a ball should not be able to over power a pattern. It should be the bowler's skills and abilties as the main factor not the ball. When bowling balls became the main focus for the bowler (and not practice) in my opinion this sport took a step backwards.

JPbowling151 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2013, 12:42:50 PM »

I agree with kidlost, bowlers who are competitive in their local county, state, regional tournaments and can put up numbers in any house, make good adjustments, and are solid spare shooters would fit my definition of an elite bowler. Also having a great mental game, making good shots under pressure.

Given having a 200 avg on a THS isn't much to cry about compared to the 70's-80's where three-piece pancake weight blocks and rubber/plastic/urethane shells ruled. Though if one can carry a 200 avg on a PBA Experience/Sport sanctioned league, 200 can still be considered an elite avg.

Author Topic: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on (Read 19139 times)

txbowler

200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

MrNickRo

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

milorafferty

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

storm making it rain

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

MrNickRo

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

txbowler

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

the_l3g3nd_killer

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

Russell

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

MrNickRo

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

Russell

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

kidlost2000

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

Strapper_Squared

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

Bowling 300 900

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

trash heap

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on

JPbowling151

Re: 200 average is no longer elite - Deal with it and move on