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Author Topic: A question for and about Jeff Carter  (Read 16835 times)

Magic Carpet

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A question for and about Jeff Carter
« on: June 25, 2006, 04:39:59 AM »
A question for and about Jeff Carter

I have pretty much stayed away from the “Mushtare” thing because I have no way of knowing if he really did what he said he did or not. I don’t find it impossible that he threw all of those 900s and I am more amazed that more people have not thrown them considering how easy lane conditions can be made today.

My question ABOUT Jeff Carter: Is Jeff Carter’s record league average a bigger feat (or at least as big) than throwing 2 or 3 900 sets?

Jeff Carter averaged 261.74 for a FULL season in league. That boys and girls is a 785 set if he just shoots his average. Until Jeff did that and Scroggs averaged what ever it was he averaged for a season I would have said THAT was impossible.  Honestly if Mr. Carter had called me up before the start of that season and said “Ron I am willing to bet big bucks that I can average 260 for a full league season.” I would have bet my house and I would be homeless now.  I am sure that Jeff will be the first to tell you he was not on a Sport pattern that season but he played on what they gave him to play on.

My question FOR Jeff Carter: Jeff how close did you come that season to throwing a 900 series and do you feel you were very far off from doing so? Do you feel that averaging 261 for a season is an equal feat to throwing a few 900s?

Good luck this year Jeff!
BTW it would be great if you could make it to the gathering July 21-23
Ron Clifton

 

Charles

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2006, 09:53:14 AM »
Thanks for the reply and info Jeff, and I fully agree with you. By the way, I am waiting for a post by you on the results of Vengeance!!!!
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Pinbuster

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2006, 10:00:32 AM »
Thanks for the reply Jeff.

I’m not sure you are giving yourself enough credit. While I agree the average numbers are crazy high the average records have always been held by someone bowling on soft conditions.

I also don’t think you give the PBA guys enough credit on house conditions. I’ve seen plenty of PBA and top amateurs bowling on league conditions. Here in Wichita we have plenty of top amateur talent around as well. The PBA guys have almost always held their own against the amateur’s average wise. Through quirks of matching up they may not be on top but they definitely will be in the top 10% of the league average wise.

Jeff Carter

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2006, 10:09:36 AM »
I love merkins, my response had more to do with being able to seperate myself from others in my hometown. If you looked up my numbers on bowl.com, then you also realize that it was only for about 24-32 games or so. I'm just not home very much to bowl league. Its more of a social thing for me now to hang out with friends and promote upcoming events that i run. There are 2 or 3 other guys in Springfield that average in the 240s and dozens in the 230s. My point is that there isnt much seperation there. To me the numbers are all relative. I could average 204, but if i come out on top i'm happy. The averages in our area have gotten so inflated that i cant even get the local bowlers to support any tournaments that i run ( and dont bowl in by the way ). I have to draw from Decatur, Peoria and other areas to generate entries. Pretty sad if you ask me.

BTW, my career PBA numbers are :
Regional Tour - 162 events  216.02 average 10 titles
National Tour - 84 events   213.91 average  0 titles

I never said that i wasnt taking advantage of the area thats out there on house patterns, its just that i dont take enough of an advantage. You have to play the lanes a certain way on PBA patterns and sometimes i never unlock my brain to realize i dont have to do that when i'm at home. My equipment arsenal is set up surface wise to compete on tougher, wetter patterns so when i come home i just grab a couple of balls and go bowl. Like i said, i really dont care how i bowl when i'm home, i just focus on mechanics and try to actually enjoy bowling for a change. Butting heads against Mika and WRW every week isnt exactly a barrell of fun, you know !

As for Vengenance, it was just so-so. The Eugene match put me to sleep and the whole Kane-Kane II angle just sucks. I was disappointed in the Foley-Flair match but the Benjamin-Nitro-Carlito match was just awesome !! I think the Edge-RVD match more than held its own, but i still think that DX stole the show ( which they were supposed to do ). If you're a WWE fan its gonna be a fun summer !!! BTW, rumors have been circulating for about a year that the WWE may become one of the Tour sponsors. I'm not sure how true they are or what the chances of that are but i know the PDW, CJ and myself would love to be on that team !
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Edited on 6/26/2006 10:09 AM

Edited on 6/26/2006 10:14 AM

Jeff Carter

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2006, 10:20:48 AM »
Didnt realize that was you Hose. Will do about CJ, although i dont think he will appreciate it !!!
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Jorge300

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2006, 10:52:52 AM »
Thanks Jeff for your response. But I have to agree that you aren't giving yourself enough credit. I can agree on the overinflated averages around the leagues of America. But to average that high, you still needed to throw good shots, make spares, etc. While the lane conditions made that easier, you still had to do it. You are a one of the best bowlers around, the 10 regional titles and the chance to bowl with the likes of PDW, WRW, Tommy Jones, etc every week proves that. Good luck next year, hopefuly we will see you on ESPN very soon.


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star

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2006, 11:00:11 AM »
Thanks for replying Jeff, from someone who is a little obsessed with stats and doesnt get a chance to see the "real" bowlers bowl this side of the pond. It was a great insight.
I wish you all the best in the next season and may there be many more exempt ones for you.
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RadioActive

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2006, 11:50:32 AM »
I think that the big difference here is that hundreds of people saw Jeff Carter go out each week and bowl to set this record. How many people saw Mushtard bowl his? That is the point, and LuckyLefty you can keep saying that you think he did it, but that don't make it so.  

There is such a thing as class, and in this case we know who has it and who is lacking.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2006, 01:17:26 PM »
Class...Jeff Carter has it and it is well respected.

Class...Robert Mushtare has been humble and direct in all his interviews and I believe has shown a maturity beyond his years in light of the inquisition he is facing.

NOTE he IS not Jamie Grimm above...nor was he the fake Robert Mushtare who posted here and talked all sorts of smack.

I believe for a 17 year old young man he has handled himself very well.

There are MANY people on these sites who believe he has at least one 900 if not more!  Also there are regional champs I have talked to who also believe it!
OF COURSE all of them also believe multiples could only happen on a very favorable condition!  That only makes sense!

REgards,

LUckylefty
PS Respect...for Mr. Mushtare is NOT widespread but much as the water skiier Jeff Rodgers who set records too early in his carreer for the water skiing establishment respect may come with other accomplishments.
PPS in golf at one time there was a famous player named Billy Dunk from Australia.  This guy almost never won tournaments...but very often he set scoring records for 18 holes that were astounding ...often times Nicklaus would be in the tourney during his travels to the "down under" and Billy Dunk would set the course record and Nicklaus would win the tournament....  Did Billy Dunk have a talent worth noting?  Or should he have been despised?

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Nails

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2006, 03:07:44 PM »
Very good posts by Mr. Carter.  Thanks for taking the time to give up your views.

Guardian, 5 man teams, two different shifts.  If you weren't impressed before, you should be now.  Shooting big numbers on a fresh wall on a good surface is one thing, but to do it on ever changing conditions is fantastic.
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Jorge300

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2006, 03:37:52 PM »
Quote
.
PPS in golf at one time there was a famous player named Billy Dunk from Australia.  This guy almost never won tournaments...but very often he set scoring records for 18 holes that were astounding ...often times Nicklaus would be in the tourney during his travels to the "down under" and Billy Dunk would set the course record and Nicklaus would win the tournament....  Did Billy Dunk have a talent worth noting?  Or should he have been despised?
Quote


But I bet Billy Dunk didn't shoot those scores a week before the tournament with only his caddy present?!? I believe Mr. Musthare may have shot the 900 that was disallowed in November. The other two were his way of getting even for the "wrong" he felt occurred, and he got his teammate his first 300 in the process. Sorry, this is the wrong place for this, but until someone steps forward that has no interest in this kid, as a friend, or center employee, etc, and says I saw all 36 strikes in either one of those series, I won't believe it. I shot a 300 when I was 16 and an entire 32 lane stopped to watch me roll the 10th frame. If that was for my third one, even prebowling, everyone there, plus anyone walking by would have been dragged in to watch, except in this case.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2006, 03:44:45 PM »
Tom Doty shot 23 or 24 for nine holes with NO CADDY.  A few groundskeepers saw some of the shots...much like Robert's second 900.

All the golf magazines covered it with reckless delirium in about 1973.

Google "Tom Doty" 10 under par for 4 holes!!!!  That's right!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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sammy the sage

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2006, 07:55:24 PM »
curious as to what ball mr. Carter used to set the scoring ave...or was it multiple balls...?

and did those balls end up in the bowling hall of fame?

Jeff Carter

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2006, 09:23:17 PM »
Well, to be honest with you i used 2 different V2s the entire season. Yes, i was with Ebonite for 8 years before i joined Team Storm. One of the V2s is on display at the Bowling Hall of Fame and the other i gave to my dad. He's the one that has helped me get my career to this point, so i gave it to him for Christmas a couple years ago

and please, no more MR. Carter !!! I'm just like each and every one of you. Lets keep it informal, shall we ???

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Edited on 6/26/2006 9:20 PM

Mike Austin

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2006, 12:48:23 AM »
quote:
Mike, what makes Jeff's release so special? He doesn't list his specs in his profile.

You can answer this too Mr. Carter.



I had a pro shop guy (from up north by his accent) call me today asking this very question.  We talked awhile, very nice guy, pretty smart, knew his stuff, not Brunswick Lefty, but sorry I forgot his name.

This is the way it was explained to me:

1. Some players have a release that is rev rate dominant.
2. Some players have a release that is speed dominant.
3. For every ball speed, there is an ideal rev rate for that speed.
4. There is a range of ball speeds that carry better than others, not too fast, not too slow.
5. Jeff's natural ball speed falls in this range, AND he has almost the ideal rev rate for his said ball speed.

Maybe watch some good players.  Some guys just seem to carry the world, no matter what house, what condition.  Jeff is one of those guys, just call him Atlas.  I used to have this very same occurence, but during the urethane days, when slower ball speed was better.  I did seem to carry everything, trip the 4 pin was my signature!  I have worked with Carol Norman the passed few years trying to reduce my rev rate and increase my ball speed so that they match up better on more varieties of lane conditions.  Very hard for me, but I keep working.

Hope this isn't drivel.......

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Rev_O

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2006, 12:53:15 AM »
Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to give us your insite. Your website is great. The only thing I see posted by you that is a negative is that you admitted to knowing the Hose. J/K. Good Luck this season!
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