Post by: Magic Carpet on June 25, 2006, 04:39:59 AM
I have pretty much stayed away from the “Mushtare†thing because I have no way of knowing if he really did what he said he did or not. I don’t find it impossible that he threw all of those 900s and I am more amazed that more people have not thrown them considering how easy lane conditions can be made today.
My question ABOUT Jeff Carter: Is Jeff Carter’s record league average a bigger feat (or at least as big) than throwing 2 or 3 900 sets?
Jeff Carter averaged 261.74 for a FULL season in league. That boys and girls is a 785 set if he just shoots his average. Until Jeff did that and Scroggs averaged what ever it was he averaged for a season I would have said THAT was impossible. Honestly if Mr. Carter had called me up before the start of that season and said “Ron I am willing to bet big bucks that I can average 260 for a full league season.†I would have bet my house and I would be homeless now. I am sure that Jeff will be the first to tell you he was not on a Sport pattern that season but he played on what they gave him to play on.
My question FOR Jeff Carter: Jeff how close did you come that season to throwing a 900 series and do you feel you were very far off from doing so? Do you feel that averaging 261 for a season is an equal feat to throwing a few 900s?
Good luck this year Jeff!
BTW it would be great if you could make it to the gathering July 21-23
Ron Clifton
Post by: a_ak57 on June 25, 2006, 01:57:14 PM
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- Andy
Post by: TheDude on June 25, 2006, 02:17:31 PM
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Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 25, 2006, 02:43:03 PM
Post by: DP3 on June 25, 2006, 03:12:12 PM
quote:
House hacks can exploit house shots. You won't get any PBA National tour players that will shoot 900 because they don't miss enough to take advantage of the house bounce. PBA players play the lanes too tight, and use much more direct launch angles with their lane play. Being accurate does not help a player on a league wall.
I'd bet that Mr. Carter is a much better player today, and because his skills are much more refined and polished he couldn't average 260 on that same wall he did back then. Why? because the best games in the world are at a disadvantage on a wall. The best releases in the game are too much for this wally ball garbage. The better your game is, the worse you bowl on house shots.
That's been told to me by many a professional.
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Some bowling here and some bowling there.
Edited on 6/25/2006 2:53 PM
Someone give this man a medal. beautiful statement!
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: Big Jake on June 25, 2006, 03:15:34 PM
quote:
Do you feel that averaging 261 for a season is an equal feat to throwing a few 900s?
An excellent thought for the day MC! and IMHO this is what a great bowler does I mean WOW!! 261 for a season is just sick, absolutely unheard of...keep up the great bowling Jeff.
I would give my left *** to do that for just one month
if you know what I mean.Later dudes,
SJ
Post by: Joe Jr on June 25, 2006, 03:17:18 PM
quote:quote:
House hacks can exploit house shots. You won't get any PBA National tour players that will shoot 900 because they don't miss enough to take advantage of the house bounce. PBA players play the lanes too tight, and use much more direct launch angles with their lane play. Being accurate does not help a player on a league wall.
I'd bet that Mr. Carter is a much better player today, and because his skills are much more refined and polished he couldn't average 260 on that same wall he did back then. Why? because the best games in the world are at a disadvantage on a wall. The best releases in the game are too much for this wally ball garbage. The better your game is, the worse you bowl on house shots.
That's been told to me by many a professional.
--------------------
Some bowling here and some bowling there.
Edited on 6/25/2006 2:53 PM
Someone give this man a medal. beautiful statement!
Agreed!
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: Nails on June 25, 2006, 03:45:28 PM
quote:
I'll bet any amount of money that you can take Jeff Carter, WRWjr, Pete Weber, and Tommy Jones to our house and let them bowl 10 sets and none of them will shoot 900. Why? Maybe they aren't as good as Rob
Quite possibly one of the top 10 dumbest things EVER posted on this board. I know Robby's your friend and you feel compelled to stick up for him, but get a grip on reality. Then again, you might have used Robby's special scoring system to shoot your own 300. Maybe you're in too deep to not defend him until the end of time.
They may not shoot 900 in 10 sets, but I'd be willing to back any or all of those you named to bowl Robby for 10 sets for any amount you name. I certainly don't think I'd be alone either.
Do they let regular civilians bowl at Mushtare's center since it's on a military base? I'd love to have a few of the board's better bowlers throw a few sets there to see how easy it is. Someone has to live close enough to drive over and give a report. I've seen houses that would add 15-20 pins to my average. I know over a season I would throw several honor scores there, but 900 would never enter my thoughts.
Sorry for the continued hijack. I think Bowling 300 900's answer is very good.
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 25, 2006, 03:53:51 PM
quote:
That is a good question, I bet Jeff Carter could throw a 900 at Roberts bowling center,
OK, I take that bet. Bring em on and put up your money.
Post by: stopncrank on June 25, 2006, 05:20:38 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a good question, I bet Jeff Carter could throw a 900 at Roberts bowling center,
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OK, I take that bet. Bring em on and put up your money
Can Jeff use the big stick to knock all the pins down? oh, and by the way, until mushy gets 41 titles, ON PBA CONDITIONS, i'll take wrw anyday. jamie must be smoking some good stuff
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: smash8-10split on June 25, 2006, 05:27:33 PM
quote:
I said what I said because of this
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a good question, I bet Jeff Carter could throw a 900 at Roberts bowling center,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I take that bet. Bring em on and put up your money
Can Jeff use the big stick to knock all the pins down? oh, and by the way, until mushy gets 41 titles, ON PBA CONDITIONS, i'll take wrw anyday. jamie must be smoking some good stuff
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
haha exactly...i'd take ANY PRO on any day against that kid is his own house, and yes...what drugs are you on jamie?????
--------------------
hold my hammer, while i NAIL your girlfriend.
Post by: Rev_O on June 25, 2006, 05:29:39 PM
quote:
I'll bet any amount of money that you can take Jeff Carter, WRWjr, Pete Weber, and Tommy Jones to our house and let them bowl 10 sets and none of them will shoot 900. Why? Maybe they aren't as good as Rob
The only reason they wouldn't shoot 900 is because they wouldn't CHEAT!!!
--------------------
Rev-O
Track International Regional Staff Member
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Post by: stopncrank on June 25, 2006, 05:36:46 PM
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 25, 2006, 05:50:25 PM
quote:
jamie, you've got to be kidding right? you actually think the great robert mushtare could beat pdw, wrw, or tommy jones?
I never said anything about Rob not being able to beat them. If you were smart enough to read, you'd see that I said that I'd bet they couldn't shoot 900 in 10 sets. Now who is the idiot?
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 25, 2006, 05:51:28 PM
quote:quote:
I'll bet any amount of money that you can take Jeff Carter, WRWjr, Pete Weber, and Tommy Jones to our house and let them bowl 10 sets and none of them will shoot 900. Why? Maybe they aren't as good as Rob
The only reason they wouldn't shoot 900 is because they wouldn't CHEAT!!!
--------------------
Rev-O
Track International Regional Staff Member
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Prove it then. Until then, keep your pie hole shut.
Post by: stopncrank on June 25, 2006, 05:56:28 PM
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: hawkeye4life on June 25, 2006, 05:59:30 PM
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Post by: LuckyLefty on June 25, 2006, 07:48:40 PM
Ron...I'd like to thank you for your statement that You are surprised more people haven't shot 900s or multiple 900s in the past due to the possibilities of lane conditions...improved bowlers etc.
This is what I have been saying all along!
I bowled with a bowler who several years ago came into league late...warmed up for the first 5 frames to the tune of 65 and then went sheet, sheet sheet and then 5 more after league ended!
He only bowled once a week and never practiced. Then next year in league he started 289 300 one set.
He DID NOT throw the ball as well as Mushtare...a little softer and he used a 15. Much like Mushtare he had a belief in himself.
As he said to me once..."If I bowled more I would have 3 or 4 900s by now".
He was also not the best on our team...that honor probably would go to Jimmy Keeth. On the other hand as much as I loved Jimmy's Game(one of the most powerful bowlers ever)...I never pictured Jimmy thowing 900...He didn't expect he would...and frankly he didn't have the magnificent carry of the other fellow on our team...go figure? 700 rpms!
The number one key difference between the hard edge teammate I had was the hardedge non pro...believed ever time he walked in...that tonight might be his first official 900...and tomorrow might be the next!
Another difference...if interviewed by Jim the Ironman the interview would go like this....
"a bunch of people are upset about me throwing 900s in prebowl...well that's tough! I did it ...they're ticked...and I'm going to throw more and they can all take a flyin flip!....Maybe tonight I'll throw one in regular league...Interview over"
And by the way I conjecture he might add..."I hate that sport shot bowling...who wants to watch a bunch of people throw spares...when they can see strikes...,I have no interest in!"
He was fun to bowl with.
REGards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 25, 2006, 09:57:36 PM
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: Mike Austin on June 25, 2006, 11:58:23 PM
I know Jeffrey a little bit.
Jeff is an awesome bowler from a number of different standpoints.
It has been documented by Storm that Jeff has a very special Rev rate to ball speed ratio. His carry is absolutely superb. I know this because I have seen some videos of Jeff when working with my coach, Carol Norman. (She tries to tell me that I have many similarities to Jeff and Robert Smith in different areas. Okay Carol, put the wine down!!)
Jeff has a very loose swing, he can repeat shots, using different hand positions like a machine.
What Jeff did during his season long feat is much more spectacular than a 900 series. He did that over many weeks, what are the odds, he never got sick, didn't strain his back shoveling snow, whatever. I was told he did this in a league that was so big they bowled across two shifts, bowling half the year early and half the year late, with no reoil between shifts.
C'mon, that is just sick. He never had any giant 800's, yes it was house china, but the sheer odds of this is just astounding!!
Now that I am done, I will mention Mushtare, what he did was cheat. THERE IS NO WAY THAT HE SHOT ONE 900 MUCH LESS 2,3,4,5 OR WHATEVER. If the house is that easy, you are telling me that he is the best bowler there, military base or not?? He didn't do it period. USBC has no balls. They approved his scores to avoid being sued. Yet, they had the nerve to deny Glen Allison's 900, he is a Hall of Famer, an acknowledged Champion in the sport All-Time, and he did it with a freakin Yellow Dot!!! I don't care how walled up you make them, nobody WILL EVER shoot 900 with plastic, ever!!!! Glen Allison was robbed big time. Robby Mushtare is a cheater, lyer, whatever, a disgrace to bowling, and he is getting good pub, and guys like Jeff and Glen, don't get a mention, terrible.
wow.....
--------------------
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
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"So Many Balls, only ONE drill press!!"
Chuck Norris is the only person to ever count to infinity..........twice!
Post by: Joe Jr on June 26, 2006, 12:49:59 AM
You can answer this too Mr. Carter.
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: ambi1 on June 26, 2006, 02:51:57 AM
regards
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: Rev_O on June 26, 2006, 03:45:37 AM
quote:quote:quote:
I'll bet any amount of money that you can take Jeff Carter, WRWjr, Pete Weber, and Tommy Jones to our house and let them bowl 10 sets and none of them will shoot 900. Why? Maybe they aren't as good as Rob
The only reason they wouldn't shoot 900 is because they wouldn't CHEAT!!!
--------------------
Rev-O
Track International Regional Staff Member
http://www.trackbowling.com/
Vise Inserts Staff
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Moderator at www.BowlingBallExchange.com
Prove it then. Until then, keep your pie hole shut.
--------------------
Rev-O
Track International Regional Staff Member
http://www.trackbowling.com/
Vise Inserts Staff
http://www.viseinserts.com
Site admin @ www.BowlingKingdom.com
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Post by: JoeBowler on June 26, 2006, 07:01:58 AM
Magic ask a simple question of one person and weget a rehash of 25 prevous threds on Mustard.
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 26, 2006, 07:18:44 AM
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Laybzz74 on June 26, 2006, 07:24:14 AM
Jeff's accomplishment speaks for itself ... and after all of the BS threads and hijacking that has occurred after this post started, I seriously doubt if Jeff will jump in and even dignify this post with a comment.
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Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)
Post by: Charles on June 26, 2006, 08:36:37 AM
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Official member of the Texas Express, 2005-2006 BallReviews.com Scratch Doubles Champions!!!!!
Post by: CoachJim on June 26, 2006, 09:07:16 AM
10 frames Ha! That's for Quakers.
My hat's off to Jeff and his tremendous accomplishments. Mushtard only averaged 250 even with all of those 900s.
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 26, 2006, 09:26:54 AM
Now about the average record. I've stated in numerous articles and interviews that the average record is something that i'm not proud of from the standpoint that it should never have been allowed to happen. The fact that the state of bowling has allowed itself to get this far is totally sickening. My opinion has always been that the best bowlers in the world are on the PBA Tour, and that the highest recorded average should be the Tour average leader. To me thats just common sense. Is there a guy sitting in Cheyene, Wy that is a better hitter than Barry Bonds ? ( no steroid jokes please !!! ). Is there a guy in Battle Creek, Mi that is a better golfer than Tiger Woods ? My point is that the best bowlers in the world are on the PBA Tour, not in some wednesday night mixed league in Smyrna, Ga. So with that being said, the average record and all of this 900 series nonsense should never have happened in the first place. I have many opinions on this whole "pre-bowled" 900 series nonsense, but i'm going to keep them to myself. My advice to Robert Mushtare is this: whether you accomplished what you say you did or not, you need to admit that the scoring environment is what got you this accomplishment and not your "superior" talent. For those of you that want to see the top bowlers in the world try and shoot 900 at this paricular bowling center, it would never happen. First of all why would they waste their time for something that means virtually nothing anymore. Somebody posted on here about how the majority of guys on Tour wouldnt be able to keep up on house patterns anymore, and he is 100% correct. I for one have a hard time going home and bowling on house patterns, mainly because i try to be too precise instead of playing a "spray" area. Everything that that poster said was dead on accurate. I couldnt have worded it any better.
Now back to the average record ( sorry for the ramble ). Like i said, its not something that im proud of because of the simple fact that it happened. With that being said, there are a few things that i can hang my hat on. First of all the lane surface at the time was guardian. Now if you arent familiar with guardian, its the softest and most unpredictable lane surface made. Brunswick Pro-Anvilane tests out in the 90s on the hardness test compared to sheet glass, where guardian tests out at 4 !!! Second, it was during a five man team league. Most of you already know how the lanes transition during your normal five man team leagues, right ??? Now pair that up with a league that alternates early to late every week. One week you bowl early, the next week you bowl late following another five man team league ( no re-oil ). My average was actually 264 on the late nights. For me those are the things that i can take from this record that i can be proud of. The 261 is just a number, its not important. What was important is being able to adapt to the environment and make it work. Too me that was the real accomplishment.
As far as how close did i get to 900, i guess i really dont know. It depends on how you look at that. Sure there were nights when i never missed the pocket and only left a handful of ring 10s and solid 9s, but if there is anybody out there that thinks that those "should have been" you are sorrily mistaken. Carry is all about matching speed up with entry angle ( and luck ). I had 830 both of the first 2 weeks, but i wouldnt consider that close to 900. The only 2 times i've been close was my 278-300-300 for 878 ( but thats not very close to me since it was over in the 4th frame of the first game ). The other was the night i started with the front 23, solid 8. Other than that, not even close. I have several 840s and 850s but like i said, i dont consider that close.
Too reply to Mike Austins post ( first of all thanks ), i dont really consider my game special in any way. Its something that ive worked very hard to develop and still do today. My game has evolved a lot since the year that i set the average record ( as a matter of fact, not much is the same ). Mike was right about my swing, i try to make my swing as loose and free as possible. That allows me to focus more on the bottom of the swing and be a little more versatile with my release. The days of having an A,B and C game are long game. Nowadays your B and C game have to be your A game whenever you're using them ( everybody confused yet ??? ). If you are bowling WRW and you have to play straight, you better be good at it. Twice i've taken him to 7 games playing his A game. I lost both times, which tells me i'm just not good enough, YET.
The key to this topic shouldnt be which one of the accomplishments is the bigger feat, but which one is the bigger farse ??? Under legitimate lane conditions, the chance of averaging 261 or bowling 900 is very remote. In my opinion, neither should have ever happened.
Thanks for giving me the floor for a while. Sorry to take up half of your day reading my garbage
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: tekneek on June 26, 2006, 09:49:11 AM
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Steve
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Post by: Charles on June 26, 2006, 09:53:14 AM
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Official member of the Texas Express, 2005-2006 BallReviews.com Scratch Doubles Champions!!!!!
Post by: Pinbuster on June 26, 2006, 10:00:32 AM
I’m not sure you are giving yourself enough credit. While I agree the average numbers are crazy high the average records have always been held by someone bowling on soft conditions.
I also don’t think you give the PBA guys enough credit on house conditions. I’ve seen plenty of PBA and top amateurs bowling on league conditions. Here in Wichita we have plenty of top amateur talent around as well. The PBA guys have almost always held their own against the amateur’s average wise. Through quirks of matching up they may not be on top but they definitely will be in the top 10% of the league average wise.
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 26, 2006, 10:09:36 AM
BTW, my career PBA numbers are :
Regional Tour - 162 events 216.02 average 10 titles
National Tour - 84 events 213.91 average 0 titles
I never said that i wasnt taking advantage of the area thats out there on house patterns, its just that i dont take enough of an advantage. You have to play the lanes a certain way on PBA patterns and sometimes i never unlock my brain to realize i dont have to do that when i'm at home. My equipment arsenal is set up surface wise to compete on tougher, wetter patterns so when i come home i just grab a couple of balls and go bowl. Like i said, i really dont care how i bowl when i'm home, i just focus on mechanics and try to actually enjoy bowling for a change. Butting heads against Mika and WRW every week isnt exactly a barrell of fun, you know !
As for Vengenance, it was just so-so. The Eugene match put me to sleep and the whole Kane-Kane II angle just sucks. I was disappointed in the Foley-Flair match but the Benjamin-Nitro-Carlito match was just awesome !! I think the Edge-RVD match more than held its own, but i still think that DX stole the show ( which they were supposed to do ). If you're a WWE fan its gonna be a fun summer !!! BTW, rumors have been circulating for about a year that the WWE may become one of the Tour sponsors. I'm not sure how true they are or what the chances of that are but i know the PDW, CJ and myself would love to be on that team !
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Edited on 6/26/2006 10:09 AM
Edited on 6/26/2006 10:14 AM
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 26, 2006, 10:20:48 AM
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: Jorge300 on June 26, 2006, 10:52:52 AM
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, say YES!!"
Post by: star on June 26, 2006, 11:00:11 AM
I wish you all the best in the next season and may there be many more exempt ones for you.
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK
.Did someone say tough luck
Want to learn to read lanes then visit:-
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Post by: RadioActive on June 26, 2006, 11:50:32 AM
There is such a thing as class, and in this case we know who has it and who is lacking.
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The man is back!
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 26, 2006, 01:17:26 PM
Class...Robert Mushtare has been humble and direct in all his interviews and I believe has shown a maturity beyond his years in light of the inquisition he is facing.
NOTE he IS not Jamie Grimm above...nor was he the fake Robert Mushtare who posted here and talked all sorts of smack.
I believe for a 17 year old young man he has handled himself very well.
There are MANY people on these sites who believe he has at least one 900 if not more! Also there are regional champs I have talked to who also believe it!
OF COURSE all of them also believe multiples could only happen on a very favorable condition! That only makes sense!
REgards,
LUckylefty
PS Respect...for Mr. Mushtare is NOT widespread but much as the water skiier Jeff Rodgers who set records too early in his carreer for the water skiing establishment respect may come with other accomplishments.
PPS in golf at one time there was a famous player named Billy Dunk from Australia. This guy almost never won tournaments...but very often he set scoring records for 18 holes that were astounding ...often times Nicklaus would be in the tourney during his travels to the "down under" and Billy Dunk would set the course record and Nicklaus would win the tournament.... Did Billy Dunk have a talent worth noting? Or should he have been despised?
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Nails on June 26, 2006, 03:07:44 PM
Guardian, 5 man teams, two different shifts. If you weren't impressed before, you should be now. Shooting big numbers on a fresh wall on a good surface is one thing, but to do it on ever changing conditions is fantastic.
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: Jorge300 on June 26, 2006, 03:37:52 PM
Quote
.
PPS in golf at one time there was a famous player named Billy Dunk from Australia. This guy almost never won tournaments...but very often he set scoring records for 18 holes that were astounding ...often times Nicklaus would be in the tourney during his travels to the "down under" and Billy Dunk would set the course record and Nicklaus would win the tournament.... Did Billy Dunk have a talent worth noting? Or should he have been despised?Quote
But I bet Billy Dunk didn't shoot those scores a week before the tournament with only his caddy present?!? I believe Mr. Musthare may have shot the 900 that was disallowed in November. The other two were his way of getting even for the "wrong" he felt occurred, and he got his teammate his first 300 in the process. Sorry, this is the wrong place for this, but until someone steps forward that has no interest in this kid, as a friend, or center employee, etc, and says I saw all 36 strikes in either one of those series, I won't believe it. I shot a 300 when I was 16 and an entire 32 lane stopped to watch me roll the 10th frame. If that was for my third one, even prebowling, everyone there, plus anyone walking by would have been dragged in to watch, except in this case.
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, say YES!!"
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 26, 2006, 03:44:45 PM
All the golf magazines covered it with reckless delirium in about 1973.
Google "Tom Doty" 10 under par for 4 holes!!!! That's right!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: sammy the sage on June 26, 2006, 07:55:24 PM
and did those balls end up in the bowling hall of fame?
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 26, 2006, 09:23:17 PM
and please, no more MR. Carter !!! I'm just like each and every one of you. Lets keep it informal, shall we ???
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Edited on 6/26/2006 9:20 PM
Post by: Mike Austin on June 27, 2006, 12:48:23 AM
quote:
Mike, what makes Jeff's release so special? He doesn't list his specs in his profile.
You can answer this too Mr. Carter.
I had a pro shop guy (from up north by his accent) call me today asking this very question. We talked awhile, very nice guy, pretty smart, knew his stuff, not Brunswick Lefty, but sorry I forgot his name.
This is the way it was explained to me:
1. Some players have a release that is rev rate dominant.
2. Some players have a release that is speed dominant.
3. For every ball speed, there is an ideal rev rate for that speed.
4. There is a range of ball speeds that carry better than others, not too fast, not too slow.
5. Jeff's natural ball speed falls in this range, AND he has almost the ideal rev rate for his said ball speed.
Maybe watch some good players. Some guys just seem to carry the world, no matter what house, what condition. Jeff is one of those guys, just call him Atlas. I used to have this very same occurence, but during the urethane days, when slower ball speed was better. I did seem to carry everything, trip the 4 pin was my signature! I have worked with Carol Norman the passed few years trying to reduce my rev rate and increase my ball speed so that they match up better on more varieties of lane conditions. Very hard for me, but I keep working.
Hope this isn't drivel.......
--------------------
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Houston, TX
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Chuck Norris is the only person to ever count to infinity..........twice!
Post by: Rev_O on June 27, 2006, 12:53:15 AM
Thanks for taking the time to give us your insite. Your website is great. The only thing I see posted by you that is a negative is that you admitted to knowing the Hose
. J/K. Good Luck this season!--------------------
Rev-O
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Post by: SUKIE on June 27, 2006, 07:42:45 AM
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 27, 2006, 07:49:28 AM
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: Laybzz74 on June 27, 2006, 07:57:11 AM
Kudos to you and your humble approach to this post with your replies, and thanx for your time and answers to the threads within ... classy, down-to-earth, and a fine example to be followed !!!
BTW, best of luck this upcoming season on the tour !!!
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Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)
Edited on 6/27/2006 10:04 AM
Post by: DP3 on June 27, 2006, 10:02:53 AM
I just became a fan off this thread alone.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: Laybzz74 on June 27, 2006, 10:48:51 AM
It's 'rasslin' ... not wrestling !!!
(BTW, I started watching the WWWF back in the early 70s !!!)
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Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)
Edited on 6/27/2006 1:42 PM
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 27, 2006, 10:57:14 AM
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on June 27, 2006, 10:59:31 AM
Well, except for MAYBE Booker T.
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Current Arsenal:
Parker Bohn III
Bohn up a Storm!!!
Post by: Jorge300 on June 27, 2006, 12:56:05 PM
quote:
OK on that topic, how funny was RAW last night ??? The DX skit was the funniest @#$% I've ever seen. I was crying i was laughing so hard
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
I started watching this in 70's too. The only problem with DX is that HHH makes too good of a heal to be a face for long. It will only be a matter of time until he "turns" on Shawn Micheals and we have 4-5 months of a feud between them again.
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, say YES!!"
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on June 27, 2006, 01:10:20 PM
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Current Arsenal:
Parker Bohn III
Bohn up a Storm!!!
Post by: DP3 on June 27, 2006, 04:54:18 PM
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: DanH78 on June 27, 2006, 10:36:36 PM
quote:
I know whenever my association does prebowls, the league officer or some type of official stays present throughout the whole session. I don't see why it's that hard for any other association to follow?
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-DP3
Respect the Game
I was not at the convention this year when the prebowl topic came up, however, I was at the city association meeting and a USBC rep was present. The biggest arguement AGAINST banning youth prebowling was the affect it would have on membership. According to the youth reps at the national convention, because of all the other options youths have, it is too hard to get an adult to coach, let alone show up during non-league hours to watch a youth bowl. It seems that with all the other option, they are afraid if we make it harder for youths to participate, they will just go play soccer instead of trying to find an unbiased adult to watch them bowl.
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 27, 2006, 10:52:53 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS I have known cheaters along the lines of that alleged against Young Mr. Mushtare...and they don't act like Mr. Mushtare...they shrink away when accused.
Though some are not sure of the number of 900s...many(not all) are certain that Robert Mushtare throws a ball to garner a 900! 5 is the uncertainty for some but many including pros and writers and regional champs feel a 900 was possible for him! It is the statistical improbability of the many that gets to them!
PPS after reading many articles I googled today...it was impressed upon me that the USBC interviewed many witnesses of partial games of his 900s! It is my impression is that they all saw...a lot of strikes!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 27, 2006, 11:01:15 PM
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 27, 2006, 11:09:25 PM
I think everyone is just jelous because they didn't do it and it was done by a 17 year old.
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 27, 2006, 11:33:22 PM
Then maybe all this doubt wouldn't have happened.
Jamie...you see the other guy who prebowled one...did only one!
Now maybe you(if you are the real Jamie...and I've messaged you and don't think you are) understand how a very strong powerful bowler bowling in a fairly friendly center(at least for his ball roll) with lively pins ...would start to develop a groove and a confidence and a familiarity with the lanes...AND a growing confidence.
I understand that progression that feel...that sense...this is where I'm going next. I've been there in golf and also in bowling I once went thru a progression of confidence building where you could do somehting no one else could think you could do! But you sensed it!
It starts in practice...Robert talked about shooting 900 in practice...if it had been 879 he would have felt the same way..."I'm soon gonna shoot 900!".
Then he did and it was rejected on a technicality! Then if he shot 868 in practice(instead of the 900 he stated.
Then he would think..."I'm gonna do it again". It builds!
Some get it...many don't...it's something they can't get their mind around.
Me I had a teammate come in late...open most of the way till a 65 in the 5th.
Then go sheet, sheet, sheet, and run up and finish 36 in a row after league.
I've seen it and knew it could be done I had seen it years ago! He did not throw as strong as Robert!
Another time I saw a guy go 9 in a row for 9 straight games in league and never close out a 300(TIGHTEN UP!). So I saw how it could go the other way.
It is a mental process ...progressed thru phases by a very powerful bowler on a a very favorable shot!
I believe it all happened.
Jamie(if you really are who you say you are) you get it...I get it...some others do...Many Others don't...and never will you must understand their way of thinking! It's not likely...so it didn't happen. Others who have been fortunate enough to see things or to be really fortunate enough to do similar things know it is only improbable if one thinks so...if one doesn't belive it's possible...then it becomes even more improbable!
REGards,
Luckylefty
PS think how many 900s have been stopped by the bowler himself...those who have gotten close if asked...will tell you...exactly what happened...
PPS two years ago in our area a guy who had never shot 300 went 300 300 5 bagger and a lady passed out on the lanes next to him...she revived an hour later to discover itwas a massive gas attack(belch)...he crumbled after an hour wait to 836! Some that were there said he had the 900 look! Totally unconcious! Not nervous at all! They call it in the moment...I've been there...oh so briefly(is is heaven?)
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Jamie Grimm on June 27, 2006, 11:41:04 PM
Rob has 30+ 300's there. It was just a matter of time tell he shot 900. He doesn't get nervous at all.
Post by: MI 2 AZ on June 27, 2006, 11:48:23 PM
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
Post by: MI 2 AZ on June 27, 2006, 11:50:56 PM
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
Post by: Rev_O on June 28, 2006, 01:52:40 AM
quote:
I don't know what the message thing is. I'm new to this site.
Rob has 30+ prebowled 300's there. It was just a matter of time tell he shot a prebowled 900. He doesn't get nervous prebowling at all.
FIXED!!
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Rev-O
Track International Regional Staff Member
http://www.trackbowling.com/
Vise Inserts Staff
http://www.viseinserts.com
Site admin @ www.BowlingKingdom.com
Moderator at www.BowlingBallExchange.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 28, 2006, 01:58:42 AM
You've opened and read two messages from me....there is a reply button on the bottom. It's not that difficult. It's like email but across the ballreviews system.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: ambi1 on June 29, 2006, 02:38:51 AM
quote:quote:
Mike, what makes Jeff's release so special? He doesn't list his specs in his profile.
You can answer this too Mr. Carter.
I had a pro shop guy (from up north by his accent) call me today asking this very question. We talked awhile, very nice guy, pretty smart, knew his stuff, not Brunswick Lefty, but sorry I forgot his name.
This is the way it was explained to me:
1. Some players have a release that is rev rate dominant.
2. Some players have a release that is speed dominant.
3. For every ball speed, there is an ideal rev rate for that speed.
4. There is a range of ball speeds that carry better than others, not too fast, not too slow.
5. Jeff's natural ball speed falls in this range, AND he has almost the ideal rev rate for his said ball speed.
Maybe watch some good players. Some guys just seem to carry the world, no matter what house, what condition. Jeff is one of those guys, just call him Atlas. I used to have this very same occurence, but during the urethane days, when slower ball speed was better. I did seem to carry everything, trip the 4 pin was my signature! I have worked with Carol Norman the passed few years trying to reduce my rev rate and increase my ball speed so that they match up better on more varieties of lane conditions. Very hard for me, but I keep working.
Hope this isn't drivel.......
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Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
Drilling and Tech Advice BirdDogbowling.com
Driller to many "Stars" and Tony Melendez too!
"So Many Balls, only ONE drill press!!"
Chuck Norris is the only person to ever count to infinity..........twice!
Interesting... I've been toying around with this premise for a couple of years now.. on a side note... I seem to notice most old timers (urethane days) are more rev dominant. which is also a big problem for me.. anyway to get the formula for the ideal range??
thanks in advance and sorry for the Hi-jack
regards
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Post by: CoachJim on June 29, 2006, 08:22:49 AM
That's not to say that if you throw the ball with 13 revs you should throw it 13 miles per hour, because there may not be enough oil on the lanes for that slow of ball speed, or too much oil for 24 x 24 or what ever the case may be. I'm not saying that if those are your specs you will not be competative on those conditions, just you will favor either oily lanes or dry depending on your specs.
What Mo was saying in the article was to check your specs and try to get as close to the same number of revs as mph and adjust your equipment from there. For instance if someone is tossing the ball with 13 revs at 18 mph they might want to either learn to put more revs on the ball or take some speed off the ball. If you are at Robert Smith level the 24 revs, but with only 20 mph you might want to either back off the revs a bit or up the speed, but from what Mo was saying the most versitile speed to rev ratio was between 16x16 to 20x20.
Post by: ambi1 on July 01, 2006, 01:03:37 AM
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!