Nationals is supposed to be the national tournament.  That's it.  It's not supposed to be a fund raiser for USBC.  It's to determine a national champion.  End of story.  So factually speaking, I am 100% correct in my assessment of the situation.  All the name calling from you doesn't change that.  Name calling is the last resort from people that have nothing backing them.  Good job.

You don't need to offset revenue because the tournament isn't about revenue.  The BJ tournament has nothing to do with the national tournament.  None of it has anything to do with deciding the national championship.  Everything you said is so wrong, I'm not even going to bother to address it point by point. 

You can't address it point by point, so whatever excuse you feel is necessary to use so you won't look the fool, go right ahead. But let me tell you, it's already too late. Everything I said is 100% accurate and correct, and you know it. Again, in your bizarro universe, you can have an USBC that doesn't need money from the tournament to survive. You can also have your anti-gravity devices, dogs and cats living together in perfect harmony, the end to world hunger, and total world peace. But here on Earth, in reality, you know that place you don't like to be apparently, the tournament revenue is important, and the loss of that revenue will need to be made up. Maybe we can just raise your USBC dues to pay for it, no one elses, just yours. Can you afford $100,000/year dues next year so we can do away the booths, the BJ, and anything else YOU find offensive with the tournament? Can we also ship all the bowlers to your home, so they can walk through it to music and fanfare since they won't get that chance at the USBC Open anymore in your bizarro world? While, that is the way we have alwasys done things is no reason to halt change, some traditions are ment to keep going on. The USBC Open has always been about finding the National Champion, but it has also been about the experience for the average bowler that doesn't have a realistic chance at that Championship. It is open to all USBC members for a reason, so they can experience the thrill of walking down that center aisle, so they can experience a true old-school tournament setting, so they can experience the latest and greatest from their sport in terms of equipment and apparel at the booths, and so they can experience some good times with friends and family. I still bowl with friends from my hometown in PA that I grew up in, even though I haven't lived there in 15 years. I have added a friend from Texas where I lived, and another from Calgary where I was last. This is usually the only chance I get to see these people. This is what this tournament is about for 90% of the participants. Now, I will admit, the people I picked are also damn good bowlers, and if all 5 of us woiuld ever be on at the same time, we have a definate shot at shooting scores to put us in the top 10 if not contend for an Eagle. But that is just icing on the cake if that happens. Why would anyone travel any distance to attend a tournament that was the same as their city or State tournament? Let me answer that for you, since you have shown you can't answer any question directed at you. They won't. So while you can make your changes, and you MAY succeed in getting the tournament back East more often, you'll wind ud with fewer entries than if you kept the tournament in Reno every year. So Congrats, you've just killed the USBC Open....is there where we are supposed to applaud?!?

Did I miss the substantial increase in the cost to sanction?  You guys act like it cost $300 a year.

Just so you have a perspective my wife plays tennis.  USTA membership is $44 a year, plus you have USTA a fee for every league you are in.  And the only "awards" there are the regional tournament if your team qualifies. 

And I'm not quite sure how many times I have to tell you this Jorge, but I like going to Reno.  I'd go to Reno and Vegas every year and be thrilled.  This isn't about me as much as you want to make it about me. 

So, Steven, what you're saying is that most of the participants just go there to have a good time. It's an event, and people go there for all the pomp and just a few select bowlers are there to win? Is it just becoming another event where just those with the money can go? I see both sides, but, and it's just my opinion, but I don't go to a bowling tournament, any tournament, to have a good time. I'm there to try to compete and hopefully win. If I just want to have a good time, there's a million things to do in Reno and Vegas for that. Not dissing on anyone, just my opinion.

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 11, 2014, 07:17:16 AM

Greed is killing the USBC Open, not me.  It's in Reno every year because USBC is using it for funding instead of having it be what it is.  I can pick everything you said apart, but I don't have to because as others have noted (as you have), I'm right.  It's a national championship.  That's what it was 100 years ago before you had all the money making ventures that have been tied to it, and that's what it is today in spite of all of the money making ventures attached to it.  All of the pomp and circumstance doesn't change that.  All of the page long posts from you don't change that.

Joe, you've clearly stated what you want the USBC Open to be. You're not accepting the reality that your vision would kill the tournament.


Ignoring that NO owner of a large center is going to give it up to the USBC for several months, a lot of people will stay home if you eliminate the viewing, the side action, and the booths. You might personally still come, but thousands of others won't.


The tournament is a National Championship experience for a select few, and a good time for most others. It's not 1900 anymore.

I don't think you're understanding at all.  It's not what I want it to be, it's what it is; or at least what it should be.  It is the national championship. 

So when USBC is saying they need certain things to hold the tournament, that's not true.  They need certain things to profit off the tournament.  They could easily hold the tournament somewhere else, but it would require they treat the tournament as a tournament and not as a profit machine.  They would have to give up the money they get from the casinos.  They might have to compromise on the booths.  The side tournaments might not be on site.  None of these would prevent the tournament from taking place, but they might cost the USBC some money.

The tournament should be about the tournament first.  The tournament should not turn a profit.  Ever.  All money should go back to the tournament.  Every decision made should be about the tournament first.  That's not how it works though.  It's a profit center for USBC, and that should not be the case because they are making decisions with that in mind and not what's best for the tournament or the people participating in the tournament.

I'm not sure why I have to keep repeating this, but I'm good with Reno.  It could be Reno every year and I'd be happy.  I'm never winning an Eagle.  This is not about me.  Some of the same people that hold the game in such high regard are at the same time completely fine with the governing body selling out the tournament for a few bucks.  It's amazing.

Joe Cool,

Despite the fact that the USBC has been "generating money" from the tournament for decades...where would you prefer the USBC get the money that they need?

Every major tournament that is run makes a profit for the person/group running the the tournament.  They would not put in all the time and energy needed out of the kindness of their heart.  These profits are hiding within the "expense fee" taken out of every entry on most every tournament you enter.

Yes the USBC takes a bigger chunk than most other tournaments but they all do it.

Would you prefer it be labeled differently on the entry form?

As others have posted, in other sports, there are fees tacked on to your entry that are basically profits for the organization running the events.

When you buy concert tickets, "ticketmaster" adds their fee on top of what the artist/group is getting.

What is your goal here?  You say greed is killing the open.  Explain how.  Reno charges the USBC lineage for the lanes.  We don't get to bowl there for free.  Yes the cost is less than a full build in a convention center, but there is still cost.  There are still employees to pay, etc...

Where do you expect USBC to get the money to pay its expenses? 

Where do you expect any organization to get money to pay for the expenses necessary to run that organization?

Well, now you're getting to the bigger problem.  USBC is (and has been) leaking money like crazy and has never made an attempt to fix it.  They throw band aids at problems and hope they will fix everything.  If the organization can't survive without profiting off of the tournament, don't you think that indicates a serious problem?  Wasn't the merger supposed to be a long term solution to financial problems they were having?  How many years ago was that?

For me, the tournament should be about the bowling and the competition but I do understand Steven's point of view. But I'm with Joe in regards to the USBC. At a recent meeting my rep and the others there asked about what kind of salaries the execs were making and about if there was an expense report for the sanction dues that were paid. They were told that it was "privileged information" and had no more comments concerning finances. Take from it what you want, but that pretty much says it all for me. You want us to pay higher sanction fees, ignore any possible resolutions or suggestions, eliminate the awards program and when we ask what are you doing with the money you say... none of your business that's "privileged information".

Tex-
I agree that a college degree does not make you an expert in any field.  However, a
PHD does qualify you as an expert.  Outside of the area of research and development
there have been few, if any, qualified experts in bowling fields.  Don't give me names,
the USBC should be run on the same level as a college athletic department.  Most of
those people are classicly trained.