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Author Topic: Need to Vent  (Read 7928 times)

machine189

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Need to Vent
« on: June 26, 2016, 05:48:43 PM »
OK so Just bowled a tournament on Kegel's winding road. Had a less than spectacular outing avg 182 for the 6 games. Now what's frustrating is I saw the correct line and when executed results were phenomenal. Problem is i would miss my target down lane almost every shot. I knew what to do but couldn't do it! I can see my avg 227 on house conditions hides the imperfections in one's game but how do I practice when there isn't much access to tougher shots.  >:(


 

avabob

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2016, 11:36:10 AM »
Lots of good advice in this thread, although I disagree with using plastic.  One thing I think should be brought up is that it is not just about execution and accuracy.  Many good league bowlers have a release that simply requires too much swing area due to high axis rotation.  The key to success on flatter patterns requires you to be able to play straighter, and get comfortable playing straighter.  Many flat patterns can be played from different zones on the lane, but you cant cross zones effectively.  For example I can often find something out around 5 board going fairly straight alla Norm Duke.  I might also find something around 15, but I can let it drift out to 8 board.  This is where good house shooters get in trouble.  they simply cant get comfortable without swing area. 

spmcgivern

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 12:11:24 PM »
avabob,

What I am getting from your comment is the bowler needs to use a reactive ball on a THS or open play shot to verify a release (physical characteristic)?  Explain to me how using plastic with the PAP marked cannot achieve the same thing.  If a bowler needs to develop a release with less axis rotation he can do that with plastic, or any ball.  But at least with plastic there will be less enticement to try and score.  Plus the bowler won't be depleting the longevity of his/her reactive equipment.

But if the bowler has sport shots to work on then I am definitely in favor of using equipment other than plastic.

xrayjay

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 12:35:39 PM »
this me:  If everything physically is okay, there are a few things I think about depending if it's THS or flat.

on THS I think "1 and 1".

1.With the ball - I'm aware of my release. keeping the same release. More off the back or side, whatever it is that night.
1. Without the ball - I spot bowl

On Flat I think "2 and 2"

With the ball - Speed and release, the two things I'm aware of. well try to be aware of.
without the ball - lay down point/at the arrows and spot down lane. but keeping ahead of the pattern is tough.
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

avabob

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 08:56:46 PM »
I don't like practicing with plastic because it gives different feedback than a resin ball on less than optimal shots.  For example plastic can give you hold area from outside that would not be available with resin.  More important it will often not give positive feedback on well thrown shots.  There really is no advantage to throwing plastic on a house shot to try to simulate a sport pattern.  Better to try and recognize what you want to do with your release using tournament caliber equipment no matter what pattern have available to practice on.  In addition the most difficult thing on sport patterns is handling transitions, something that plastic on a house shot wont help with.

I do agree with not using my best equipment to practice with, just to save the shell.  Another thing I suggest is get in the habit of using your spare ball, be it urethane or polyester on all spares that are not double wood.  Do this on house shots and in practice.  More guys get done in by bad spare shooting on flat patterns than anything else. 

Bottom line, work on lowering your axis rotation, try to play straighter, and use a spare ball for most everyithing.  Doing this on house shots will better prepare you for tournament conditions.  However nothing replaces experience.   
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 11:49:13 AM by avabob »

spmcgivern

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2016, 09:36:20 PM »
Again, avabob, you are recommending trying to score on THS as practice.  I am suggesting eliminating the scoring aspect and work on rotation and tilt and footwork.  You can do that with plastic and not beat up your other equipment.

We just have different ways of practicing.

avabob

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2016, 09:01:14 AM »
The only thing plastic can do on a house shot is help you with squaring up your body alignment.  However, this is of no benefit unless you can adopt a release that will allow you to play less out angle with resin equipment.  The point is learning a release that will carry and adjust to the pattern not just over power it from your comfort zone.  Bowling is about feedback and I just don't think plastic gives the best feedback when you are trying to make changes in your game.  Unfortunately house shots don't either unless you are very attuned your own feel and can analyze your ball reaction regardless of score

spmcgivern

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2016, 09:51:25 AM »
I think you misunderstand my use of plastic.  I am not trying to get plastic to react.  What I do is put a strip of tape from my PAP to above my fingers and use that to provide feedback.  If I know I will need to be playing up the boards on a particular sport shot, then I will practice that line on whatever shot the center has out.  Use the tape to tell me if my rotation and tilt are where I want them to be.  Work on footwork and balance.  Ultimately I do not need to see the ball react to know if I am accomplishing what I want to accomplish.  The only time I need to see the ball react during practice is if I am bowling on what I expect to see during competition.

You simply cannot get better at bowling on sport shots by trying to score on THS.  If you could, then all these bowlers who bowl 4 leagues a week on THS averaging 230+ would be the best sport shot bowlers in the world.

avabob

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2016, 10:25:05 AM »
I am not talking about trying to score, however you cannot separate accuracy and execution from throwing an effective ball that has a chance to carry.  I think you and I have more experience playing multiple angles and developing a roll that will keep balls in play when there is OB, or little hold area.   The worst thing about house shots today is not how much margin of error it gives, but how it takes no versatility going from one house to another.  When I was young we had several high scoring houses in town.  However one was great from 3rd arrow, a couple were walled off the corner, and one played great right up 10 board.  With the balls we had you couldn't over power the patterns, you had to learn to line up to play the pattern and learn a release that was effective from multiple angles.  This was great for me in learning to play anywhere on the lane, but when urethane and ultimately resin balls came out my release didn't match up at all with the friction created by these balls.  I could execute and I could play multiple angles, but I couldn't take advantage of the carrying power of the new balls until I learned a release that allowed me to take advantage of the carrying potential of the resin balls. 

I think you and I can get benefit from practicing with plastic but I am not sure how beneficial it is to the guy who doesn't have a lot of experience on flatter patterns.     

spmcgivern

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2016, 07:47:27 AM »
Fair enough.  If a bowler doesn't understand the roll characteristics needed to maximize carry, then they are at a disadvantage.  Good thing is once they understand what is needed to carry, it pretty much works on all patterns.

avabob

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Re: Need to Vent
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2016, 08:40:30 AM »
I just wanted to revisit this.  I still disagree with using plastic to prepare for tournament patterns for the reasons I stated.  However after practicing on a house shot for a couple of hours with my urethane ball I realized I was getting very good feedback on when I made excellent shots, and more important, the roll pattern that is optimal for playing flatter patterns.  Urethane hits much better when you can stay behind the ball and play a straighter trajectory.  The best release for tournament patterns can be learned more easily playing urethane rather than resin when practicing on house shots.  If you have the opportunity to practice on tournament patterns, then by all means use your resin equipment because you will get the feedback necessary to improve your game.  If you cant practice on tournament patterns, then use a good strong cored urethane ball that does not have an aggressive surface prep ( I like 4000 grit ).  This will help you learn to deal with carrydown issues that are more problematic on flat patterns, and will also show you how to develop a straighter trajectory that can still carry very well when you go back to resin on heavier tournament oil patterns.