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Author Topic: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan  (Read 15665 times)

blesseddad

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A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« on: August 25, 2013, 04:08:59 PM »
Check this out and see if you agree...


http://mikefagan.tumblr.com/post/28350535363/how-to-fix-bowling#notes

I love it and love to get another idea toward making bowling better, not just allowing the status quo to continue...

 

Snakster

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2013, 08:44:03 AM »
I've just joined my first sanctioned league. Ever. I'm 46. Prior to this year the closest thing I ever came to competitive bowling was an intramural league in high school (there is an actual bowling team now!). I did not have my own ball until January of this year (used). I always enjoyed going bowling recreationally, just never found the time to do it (or more accurately it was out if my consciousness most if the time). What changed this for me was when I took my then 11 year old son bowling in late December last year. He enjoyed it and asked to go again the following week. Before I knew it he was signed up for the Junior league, I found him a coach for lessons and he has been majorly into it. I've been brought along for the ride. We did an adult junior league together this summer (unsanctioned) and he is now involved in the junior bowlers tour and his juniors starts Saturday. I signed up for a sanctioned mixed league so I could have an average to partner with him in adult junior tournaments.

What does this have to do with the subject? Just wanted to provide background to illustrate where my perspective is. I don't think handicap is the major issue. I do think it can be and is an issue at some times, in some places and with some people. There is no magic perfect fix. Cheating (yes I think sandbagging is cheating) exists in all sports and there is no way to cleanse it entirely. What must be guarded against is to make sure the solution is not worse than the problem. If USBC is turning their focus on being more strictly a governing body, then they should be putting their brain cells on this issue. Maybe it's standardizing handicaps for sanctioned leagues. Maybe it's breaking leagues into divisions. Or combinations of solutions. But like I said, I don't think that is the major issue (albeit not and insignificant one). To me the issue is marketing. Marketing to youth. And marketing to adults who are not already hip deep.

First the youth. The junior league my son participated in was fine but with few exceptions, seemed more recreational than anything. The 'coaches' didn't really coach (in any meaningful way) and it was more monitoring. Repeating "keep your arm straight" to any kid from 4-14 is not coaching. There is no practice per se. Other than warmups. Some houses may promote practicing, I don't want to throw a blanket in all junior leagues, but without practice and coaching, what good is it? How about $1 games for kids in junior league any time they go so they can practice? How about setting aside one night a week where kids in the league can practice and actually be coached. This is the low hanging fruit.

How about local pros (I'm looking at you now Mr. Fagan) provide time or promotional activity for local youth bowling. Seminars, camps, scholarship tournaments. Parker Bohn just had his annual youth scholarship tournament this past weekend in New Jersey. Tremendous success in my eyes. But this needs to be done more. Now maybe Mike does these things and I'm unaware because I don't live in his area. If he does, then kudos. If not, stop trying to fix a problem top-down in ancillary symptoms.

The kids are where it's at. They are competitive by nature. Market to them. Get pros involved. Make leagues feel like real sports leagues not just Saturday morning goofing around. If I just dropped my son in a league and left it at that, he would not be near the bowler he has become and is becoming, and it is entirely likely he would have lost interest and would not have wanted to sign up again this year. But I went out and found him coaching since none was offered at his center. Through his coach (shout out to Krista at BowlerX) we learned of the Pennsylvania Junior Bowlers Tour. So he worked toward competing in those. It made it a REAL sport. And he improved. As he improved, his love of the game grows. As his love of game grows, his desire to go bowling and practice grows. Frankly he's insatiable at this point.

That's how the sport grows. But it takes effort. This isn't the field of dreams. USBC needs to work with local bowling centers to expand the programs to make it more of a youth sport and less of a youth activity. You're not going to magically expand the sport by trying to 'fix' adult leagues. You have to take the time and effort to build a better youth foundation which will ultimately trickle up to the adult level.

Which brings me to point two. Adults who are not already hip deep. I speak of my personal thoughts here and realize experiences vary. It's a little intimidating being a lone adult who has recently decided to try to get into it. Leagues are established. Teams are established. I don't have a group if people to form a new team with. So I have to sign up and hope for the best. I'm a bit uncomfortable with that because I'm always uncomfortable in situations where I feel like an outsider coming in. I think the turn off I'd that some people who are new get the feeling that you're viewed as invading the club. Again, that may be just me and I have no solutions, but it's a bit intimidating. But I also don't want to be told "you don't want to join 'X' league because that's go people who's average is 'Y' and they're really good. Okay, my average isn't 'Y'....yet. But I'm not looking for something to do, I'm looking to compete and improve. So why should I be steered to a league and plopped on a team where I am by far the best bowler. That doesn't help me. I may be new new to leagues but that doesn't mean I'm just in it for kicks.

Don't worry about the handicaps per se, work on creating situations where people can compete, or not compete, at levels right for them. And don't crush the spirits of newbies but steering them to situations that are not right for them.

If you've lasted this far, sorry for the dissertation.
Current bag:
DV8 Turmoil 2 Pearl
Radical Squatch hybrid
Motiv Forza GT
Hammer Black Widow Gold
DV8 Vandal
DV8 Creed Rebellion

txbowler

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2013, 11:50:57 AM »
Here's my thoughts...

The mentality of today's society is evolving.

Mr Fagan ideas and some of the comments posted in this thread are designed on the concept of if you remove handicap the bowler will practice and want to improve.

That is where I think the error is.  Today's society has evolved into a "quick pay-off reward society".  A lot of people no longer want to put in the hard work or fathers, mothers, grand-fathers, and grand-mothers had to put in to live.

Most everyone's lives are easier now than 30 years ago.

Don't need to spend 30 minutes cooking dinner, I can microwave it in 3 minutes.

I don't have to go to the library and research 5 books for my term paper, I simply "GOOGLE" it.

Most people are not going to want to practice to get better at bowling.  3 to 6 games a week in league is their practice. 

Unless you are a college bowler, you are probably married, have kids, or have a 9-5 job.  That means realistically, the only time you can practice is in the evening or on weekends.  Well most houses during the week, have leagues so you are not practicing then, you are bowling a league.  On the weekends, they are putting out little to no oil or glow bowl.  But realistically, you are spending time with the family or running your errands that you have to do in order to get through life.

I think realistically, the only bowlers who practice consistently, are people who are making bowling their current career choice.

And I think that's where the rubber hits the road.  When someone is depending on bowling to feed their family and someone who can not practice and work a 9-5 and get a little hdcp can beat them taking food from their table, I can see why they want hdcp to go away.

I don't have an answer.  I don't think there is a simple answer. 

I agree with others that say if you take away hdcp even only at say 200 and above or 210, the bowlers at that level who are not career bowlers know they do not have the time to put in the effort to be at the level of a Mike Fagan, Chris Barnes, or the elite career bowlers in their area so most will simply choose not to compete any more and just go spend more time with their family.  And then we have less bowlers.


Snakster

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2013, 12:59:07 PM »
I just see a more faceted issue. I reject "most people are this" and "all handicaps should go". I just don't understand why it's all one way or all another. If bowling houses offered a variety of products, then everyone will find something that suits them. When there are 6 leagues that are all the same except the name, and one that's a super scratch league, who are you serving mr. bowling proprietor?

Some people are high level so they should have those high level leagues. Some people are 100 averages and are just looking to get out. So something for them. Some are 180s and looking for competitive and development. Know your customers and tailor your products.

Does that address the individuals who want to be big fish in small ponds? They sandbag to get in a lower league so they can 'crush'?  No. But you will never get rid of that. There will always be one of those guys. But a good rule structure may root them out locally eventually.

I have a great built in excuse to practice more than average these days because my son wants to. I, being a dedicated father, am only too happy to sacrifice my time for the betterment of my child.  ;D

I don't see it so much as society changing. Everyone has a hobby or activity they allow themselves. For those who choose bowling, they'll do the little things to improve...if given the opportunity. The houses need to meet them half way. Establish a program that fosters the activity. Not just take the easy route of setting up cookie cutter leagues and let them run on inertia.
Current bag:
DV8 Turmoil 2 Pearl
Radical Squatch hybrid
Motiv Forza GT
Hammer Black Widow Gold
DV8 Vandal
DV8 Creed Rebellion

blesseddad

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2013, 12:55:48 AM »
So my first night of league is over. This is the league of 90% of 220 and the high in the league last year was 219, BTW.  Just shot over 720 the opening night and will get no pins FOREVER, since the last month has seen me throw it better than I ever have, even at age 45. 

And the incentive to bowl with these knuckleheads (not my team, the league) again is what?

The team to the right of us, with their anchor opening the league at 30 under his summer average. And this is the team that won the league last year...when their 150-170 all averages 170-195 the last 6 weeks of the league...

The team to the left of us is even worse.

I will bowl my best every game, no matter if the result is 140 or 240.

Tell me again why Mike is wrong. Tell me again why I shouldn't push for a progressive league or some other penalty to sack these baggers?

Good frickin thing there is only about $50 difference between first and last. (8 lane center, 8 lane house)

Baggers SUCK!

Gizmo823

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2013, 09:27:54 AM »
Again, I think it has more to do with the scoring pace than handicap.  Handicap problems are a byproduct of the issues with the scoring pace.  Handicap problems fluctuate with scoring pace, because the recommended fix for it is to create divisions or tiers.  If the average range is 150-180, handicap isn't an issue.  When you're trying to handicap averages of 150-230, all the sudden you have huge issues, that's way too big of a range.  That's why golf tournaments are flighted.  Maybe they ought to do that with bowling. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

blesseddad

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2013, 10:11:05 AM »
Again, I think it has more to do with the scoring pace than handicap.  Handicap problems are a byproduct of the issues with the scoring pace.  Handicap problems fluctuate with scoring pace, because the recommended fix for it is to create divisions or tiers.  If the average range is 150-180, handicap isn't an issue.  When you're trying to handicap averages of 150-230, all the sudden you have huge issues, that's way too big of a range.  That's why golf tournaments are flighted.  Maybe they ought to do that with bowling.

+1.

Would be much easier to flight things if were still had 5 million leagues bowlers, instead of the less than 2 million. Then, the more bowlers would allow you to go something like 150-180, 180-210 and 210 and above...

Still feel like the scoring pace is not in the bowlers' control and blaming the pace is still penalizing those who are getting better, whether it be from better knowledge, better coaching or better equipment. In addition, no one talks about the fact most houses are now synthetic or overlay, so the playing field is so much better for consistency and scoring...the pins are so light now, they fly everywhere, the pin decks are like trampolines, the lane conditions are done by sophisticated machines, not some old dude with a towel and a bug sprayer...and on and on and on.

txbowler

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2013, 10:15:01 AM »
The other part of the equation here is money.  Some people, will stoop to any level (sandbagging) to win money.  No matter how small of an amount.

No system you can put in place besides eliminating HDCP will prevent it. 

However, the consequence of that is a majority of bowlers will just quit.


avabob

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Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2013, 05:36:11 PM »
I had a conversation in a bar after league with a good friend who talked to me about the fact that everyone averages 200, but nobody practices anymore.  Only thing noteworthy about this conversation is that it took place in 1975.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.