BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Luke Rosdahl on December 18, 2017, 11:33:23 AM
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First of all, personally I don't care. If it's legal, I'll bowl with it, if it's not, I won't, don't care. I think USBC is missing a chance to differentiate recreation from sport though. The average bowler doesn't get patterns. Yeah the blue oil looks cool on the PBA shows, but there's no blue oil at league, so they have no basis for comparison. You can show them lane graphs and pictures, but until they actually see it AND bowl on it, they're not going to get it or understand. HOWEVER, it's really easy to understand the difference between college baseball players using aluminum bats and the pros using wood, and it's nothing that has to be explained to be understood. All you have to say is that the pros have equipment restrictions, they can't use the balls that make it "easier" to score like league bowlers can, because when people see pros using the same balls they do bowling on lanes that look the same as theirs, they see no difference.
Now the issue for the manufacturers becomes that they lose advertisement for balls that aren't legal for use on the PBA, but I really don't think the PBA has much influence on ball purchases anymore. Literally not once in the last three years have I had anyone come into the shop and say, "I want the ball -insert random pro- won with the other day." I could be wrong, but 10-15 years ago, that happened all the time. Somebody would win with a ball on a Sunday, and Monday I'd have people in there wanting one. Now it seems to be primarily consumer and manufacturer driven.
This idea makes sense to me, continue with the current specs, but put spec restrictions on equipment for use in higher level competition. The funny thing is it doesn't even matter, most people I know use equipment that's inside the new rumored specs anyway, not going to hurt my feelings, but it could hurt manufacturers who all the sudden lose maybe a couple ball lines, and more limited specs means more limited reactions which means more limited choices which means less revenue most likely. There NEEDS to be a bolder line between recreation and sport, and it needs to be achieved without adjusting the recreation side.
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Couldn’t agree more; where was Chad and Incompetent ass usbc back then where these different changes would of helped the sport have more ‘Merit’ in it??
Little too late imo. Smh
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Luke this may be a obvious question, but do you believe the current equipment that’s currently on the market will still mandated if the new changes come into effect?
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Stuff would be grandfathered in with a cutoff date, like it will be legal for the next 5 years or something, so it's nothing that's going to hit now, but if it's already been approved, it will be fine for a while, but all new stuff that hasn't been approved will have to meet the new specs. Obviously as well, since the whole Jackal fiasco, whatever the limit is, everything will be lower still, so the new rumored differential number is .045, I wouldn't expect to see anything over .042.
Luke this may be a obvious question, but do you believe the current equipment that’s currently on the market will still mandated if the new changes come into effect?
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Thanks much appreciated.
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Like I said in the other thread I think the ball manufacturers would strongly oppose this. As you mentioned it will hurt their sales, and they are the side with money (the USBC being the one without). I would be pretty surprised if they let something like this go though.
Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other though. Balls can/are/maybe will be more than effective with .042(ish) differential.
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Stuff would be grandfathered in with a cutoff date, like it will be legal for the next 5 years or something, so it's nothing that's going to hit now,
In my opinion grandfathered balls should not have a cutoff date. People still use older balls. What will happen to one my balls that I still use that is already grandfathered. Will there be a great grandfather clause also? Luke your suggestion on PBA restrictions is a better idea.
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Yeah I'm with you, but they want to prevent stockpiling most likely. Lots of people with lots of "golden oldies" undrilled in their basements, and once stuff is declared illegal, if they don't set a cutoff date, people are going to stock up and still be using "illegal" balls a decade from now or more.
Stuff would be grandfathered in with a cutoff date, like it will be legal for the next 5 years or something, so it's nothing that's going to hit now,
In my opinion grandfathered balls should not have a cutoff date. People still use older balls. What will happen to one my balls that I still use that is already grandfathered. Will there be a great grandfather clause also? Luke your suggestion on PBA restrictions is a better idea.
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Yeah I'm with you, but they want to prevent stockpiling most likely. Lots of people with lots of "golden oldies" undrilled in their basements, and once stuff is declared illegal, if they don't set a cutoff date, people are going to stock up and still be using "illegal" balls a decade from now or more.
Stuff would be grandfathered in with a cutoff date, like it will be legal for the next 5 years or something, so it's nothing that's going to hit now,
In my opinion grandfathered balls should not have a cutoff date. People still use older balls. What will happen to one my balls that I still use that is already grandfathered. Will there be a great grandfather clause also? Luke your suggestion on PBA restrictions is a better idea.
Yeah but if they outlaw any balls that are legal today they are going to kill the sport. Imagine the Motiv Jackal Ghost debacle x100. People will be like fsck it not buying more equipment and find another hobby.
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That's why there will likely be a grace period, like 3-5 years. The vast majority of people will have their whole arsenal turned over, and mainstays like the IQ Tour Solid will still be within limits.
Yeah I'm with you, but they want to prevent stockpiling most likely. Lots of people with lots of "golden oldies" undrilled in their basements, and once stuff is declared illegal, if they don't set a cutoff date, people are going to stock up and still be using "illegal" balls a decade from now or more.
Stuff would be grandfathered in with a cutoff date, like it will be legal for the next 5 years or something, so it's nothing that's going to hit now,
In my opinion grandfathered balls should not have a cutoff date. People still use older balls. What will happen to one my balls that I still use that is already grandfathered. Will there be a great grandfather clause also? Luke your suggestion on PBA restrictions is a better idea.
Yeah but if they outlaw any balls that are legal today they are going to kill the sport. Imagine the Motiv Jackal Ghost debacle x100. People will be like fsck it not buying more equipment and find another hobby.
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> Literally not once in the last three years have I had anyone come into the shop and say, "I want the ball -insert random pro- won with the other day." I could be wrong, but 10-15 years ago, that happened all the time. Somebody would win with a ball on a Sunday, and Monday I'd have people in there wanting one.
Because the dozen people who watch Xtra Frame are on staff and already have one. With cord cutters less people flipping all the way over to Espn The Ocho as well.
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IF they go this route and makes changes, it should be a two pronged approach to me.
The pros, make the change immediate. No grandfather. Cost of wanting to be a pro.
The leaguer, I could live with 5 yrs, 3 would be a serious issue to me. Too much money invested to be forced to change. Let the majority of the stuff wear out.
Make it a very, very small window for manufacturers to sell old stock. Tell them ahead of time to stop producing to save costs. Over produce trying to maximize sales, risk getting stuck with old stock.
This won't be a popular opinion, but just saying what I'd do if they decide to go ahead with the debacle. And it will be one.
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Whatever until whatever this is becomes.
And not to sound overconfident but give me any ball and I will figure out how to score with it. It may not be 300 every night but I will be able to keep pace with the rest of the house hacks.
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Whatever until whatever this is becomes.
And not to sound overconfident but give me any ball and I will figure out how to score with it. It may not be 300 every night but I will be able to keep pace with the rest of the house hacks.
You say that until the first time you can't get use one of your top shelf balls because its now outlawed. You might not need to of course but not going to cause a warm and fuzzy feeling towards paying those USBC dues I imagine. Honestly this might drive even more leagues to go non USBC sanctioned and may kill USBC for good. On second thought this is a great idea.
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Power players are already using balls within the rumored changes. Strokers would be losing the big cores that help them keep up with the power players.
I think the rule changes will be effective in reducing the overall number of 300s, because the majority of bowlers are still low rev, low speed. However, I think the big picture isn’t the scores themselves, but the ability for the skilled stroker to keep up with the scores power players are posting. This moves us even further away from an equitable playing field. Strokers are about to lose some hit, and the power players will never even notice.
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Power players are already using balls within the rumored changes. Strokers would be losing the big cores that help them keep up with the power players.
I think the rule changes will be effective in reducing the overall number of 300s, because the majority of bowlers are still low rev, low speed. However, I think the big picture isn’t the scores themselves, but the ability for the skilled stroker to keep up with the scores power players are posting. This moves us even further away from an equitable playing field. Strokers are about to lose some hit, and the power players will never even notice.
Yep this may even hasten the demise of 1 handers at the top level. Who cares about strokers anyway when they only make up the majority of dwindling market? This is going to fix everything.
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I'm in the group of not really caring. I'm not a low rev guy but definitely not in the "power player" category. At the same time, I don't believe this is a necessary fix
The only time bigger cores and higher diff come into play for me is on oil at tournaments. On a medium oil house shot my most success has come from using smoother balls with diff in the .035-045 range (Blue Vibe, Ride, Blur Pearl, Ascent Apex, Brute Strength).
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Regardless of any new ball dynamic rules, the end result for the league bowler will be the same as it is today. Oil patterns will change to accommodate the low rev bowlers (majority of league bowlers) who will no longer have the help the same way they are set up today for low rev bowlers to use 0.060 inch cores.
I can foresee this rule actually putting some higher rev bowlers at a disadvantage if oil volumes decrease to a point where the strongest core used by the average bowler is something weaker than the HyRoad core.
I am still a fan of using this moment (if implemented) as a chance to eliminate the static rule that most feel isn't necessary. Make cores weaker while allowing bowlers (and manufacturers) a means of drilling any ball any way they want; bad or good... their ball.
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Regardless of any new ball dynamic rules, the end result for the league bowler will be the same as it is today. Oil patterns will change to accommodate the low rev bowlers (majority of league bowlers) who will no longer have the help the same way they are set up today for low rev bowlers to use 0.060 inch cores.
I can foresee this rule actually putting some higher rev bowlers at a disadvantage if oil volumes decrease to a point where the strongest core used by the average bowler is something weaker than the HyRoad core.
I am still a fan of using this moment (if implemented) as a chance to eliminate the static rule that most feel isn't necessary. Make cores weaker while allowing bowlers (and manufacturers) a means of drilling any ball any way they want; bad or good... their ball.
You are assuming the USBC doesn't USBC the roll out. Agree though on THS big diffs aren't that critical but just resent after buying so many ball in the last few years they are suddenly only now changing the rules on me.
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Not sure who has the ear of our lane man, but he is killing me. If he is a no rev fudger throwing a Sure Lock down 10 then I will not be able to bowl there anymore. I can't keep a Hustle Ink from rolling out. I am currently throwing a 1993-ish Purple Rhino Pro and have to stay left of 15 and 17 mph at the pins. Can't imagine the shot if the fudger has to throw a Torrent.
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Whatever until whatever this is becomes.
And not to sound overconfident but give me any ball and I will figure out how to score with it. It may not be 300 every night but I will be able to keep pace with the rest of the house hacks.
You say that until the first time you can't get use one of your top shelf balls because its now outlawed. You might not need to of course but not going to cause a warm and fuzzy feeling towards paying those USBC dues I imagine. Honestly this might drive even more leagues to go non USBC sanctioned and may kill USBC for good. On second thought this is a great idea.
I do not use "top shelf" balls on a regular basis. On house shots my arsenal is as follows:
Kinetic Emerald .038 diff
DDD .041 diff
IQ Tour Solid .029 diff
Tundra .029 diff
I just shot a 300 yesterday with the Dare Devil Trick on USBC White #2 (which is slightly flatter than a THS) - which of course has the same core as the DDD. In terms of diff, that core may have the highest diff of any of the 300s I've thrown.
I will admit, I would be affected on heavier volume sport shots. However, that's what surface is for. Instead of 2000 grit, I may have to go 500-1000 if I can't use a big diff asymmetric. Whatever happens, I will adjust. I'm not going to quit because the specs of the ball may or may not change.
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Whatever until whatever this is becomes.
And not to sound overconfident but give me any ball and I will figure out how to score with it. It may not be 300 every night but I will be able to keep pace with the rest of the house hacks.
You say that until the first time you can't get use one of your top shelf balls because its now outlawed. You might not need to of course but not going to cause a warm and fuzzy feeling towards paying those USBC dues I imagine. Honestly this might drive even more leagues to go non USBC sanctioned and may kill USBC for good. On second thought this is a great idea.
I do not use "top shelf" balls on a regular basis. On house shots my arsenal is as follows:
Kinetic Emerald .038 diff
DDD .041 diff
IQ Tour Solid .029 diff
Tundra .029 diff
I just shot a 300 yesterday with the Dare Devil Trick on USBC White #2 (which is slightly flatter than a THS) - which of course has the same core as the DDD. In terms of diff, that core may have the highest diff of any of the 300s I've thrown.
I will admit, I would be affected on heavier volume sport shots. However, that's what surface is for. Instead of 2000 grit, I may have to go 500-1000 if I can't use a big diff asymmetric. Whatever happens, I will adjust. I'm not going to quit because the specs of the ball may or may not change.
Oh I totally agree good bowlers will continue to be good regardless and honestly I wouldn't be so chicken little if I didn't despise the USBC leadership so much and trust them so little. I will continue also regardless (close to a majority of my highest games also are with medium or less diff cores) but the less the USBC does to fix bowling the better. I won't argue there aren't issues just I don't trust the USBC to fix them. Isn't the cores for example that soak up the oil and ruin the shot. And how nice of them to fix everything now suddenly after they looked like giant asshats in their marquee event because of course big core oil soakers are such a new invention. Don't like any of my arsenal being sacrificed for the ego of a tool like Chad. Still he is just making his organization that much less relevant. Not hard to find non USBC leagues in my area thankfully and they tend to be cheaper.
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Agree with below, specifically in that if this is instituted I don't see the benefit to the mass majority of USBC members? I see need for standards and rules but attempts to move backwards in the end will only hurt the USBC. I don't need to bowl in anything the USBC sanctions and it will just drive membership numbers lower. Agree with Luke feel free to put new rules for higher level competitions but again I see the Tournament they hold every year on the tough shot that few house hacks can score on drawing fewer numbers every year.
And lastly the USGA and RGA considered doing this for 460 drivers and then learned that the coffers of the manufacturers was considerably higher than them and decided they didn't want to face off in courts. Who has more $? Storm or USBC? And I think Storm may even team up with EBI and Brunswick with legal actions to prevent any rules that would hurt business....
Just my 0.02.... Oh and that idiot Chad is really in charge of the USBC? And he thinks these are good ideas? :o
And if they are enacted I'll just use HOOK JUICE as it will make any ball hook! :o
C'mon Man it's HOOK JUICE!
Power players are already using balls within the rumored changes. Strokers would be losing the big cores that help them keep up with the power players.
I think the rule changes will be effective in reducing the overall number of 300s, because the majority of bowlers are still low rev, low speed. However, I think the big picture isn’t the scores themselves, but the ability for the skilled stroker to keep up with the scores power players are posting. This moves us even further away from an equitable playing field. Strokers are about to lose some hit, and the power players will never even notice.
Yep this may even hasten the demise of 1 handers at the top level. Who cares about strokers anyway when they only make up the majority of dwindling market? This is going to fix everything.
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Bowlers are without a doubt the whiniest poops I've ever seen.
95% of the balls drilled do not use the maximum differential. Once you get past separation of each track line additional separation doesn't matter.
On house shots there is always enough dry regardless of oil absorption rates of the cover stock. The same ones complaining about this have been lauding the attributes of regular urethane that absorb little oil.
OMG I might have to change my line slightly to get into the dry faster. And if you don't think the proprietors won't change the shot to get you more dry you are delusional.
If the manufactures came out with a ball that would allow anyone to throw at least one 300 a night you would all end up in line paying $500 a ball to get it and destroy the game. But if something happens to take away one strike a night so many will cry foul.
The one handed game is not going to disappear. There are many good young one handed bowlers out there who have won majors in the last couple years.
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Bowlers are without a doubt the whiniest poops I've ever seen.
95% of the balls drilled do not use the maximum differential. Once you get past separation of each track line additional separation doesn't matter.
On house shots there is always enough dry regardless of oil absorption rates of the cover stock. The same ones complaining about this have been lauding the attributes of regular urethane that absorb little oil.
OMG I might have to change my line slightly to get into the dry faster. And if you don't think the proprietors won't change the shot to get you more dry you are delusional.
If the manufactures came out with a ball that would allow anyone to throw at least one 300 a night you would all end up in line paying $500 a ball to get it and destroy the game. But if something happens to take away one strike a night so many will cry foul.
The one handed game is not going to disappear. There are many good young one handed bowlers out there who have won majors in the last couple years.
>95% of the balls drilled do not use the maximum differential.
Maybe you own. Have a More Cash with a .075 diff after drilling. One of the rare bowlers than needs the flare because unlike vast majority on here the bowling centers here make enough money to put out decent volumes of oil.
>lauding the attributes of regular urethane that absorb little oil.
No just pointing out urethane doesn't ruin the shot. I throw it for fun but my urethane is not what I score with.
>But if something happens to take away one strike a night so many will cry foul.
If they want to change the rules on balls going forward fine. Still wouldn't be happy with it but whatever rules are the rules and move on. But this bullshit that balls I bought in good faith that were perfectly legal at the time are now going to be illegal in a few years time just shows what a raging dumpster fire the USBC is. What's next? Are they going to change the rules again when dumbass Chad learns you actually do need conditioner on the lane after another joke USBC Open where he hands the winner a check smaller than my usual paycheck? Are they going to say oh that IQ Tour made my Open a joke like me so its banned now? Yeah because pissing off the few people left actually spending money on this dying sport is the way to save it. The hell of it is I don't even really bowl that much competitively and bowling is much more a game to me than sport which is why I am confused as to why I am getting punished. This just pretty much guarantees I won't bowl USBC leagues or tournaments going forward. Fine by me. Really shouldn't even care but watching the USBC "fix" bowling is what it must be like to be life long Cleveland Browns fan watching their front office.
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Inverted FE2 .046, Storms on our side haha.
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I have a migraine processing all of this non sense. ???
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I have a migraine processing all of this no sense. ???
Sorry to rant. Really pointless. Let them do whatever. Don't care and doesn't matter. Already have enough balls to last a lifetime and USBC can't tell me what I can use for open bowling so I am good. League is just to get the cheap open games anyway lol. Love of the game. Besides why have a dream of going pro lol when it would mean a big ass pay cut? But sure lets change the game due to the 100 best people who have to basically work for the ball companies because the prize money is a joke. Never mind the paying customers.
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If Chad makes a rule that bans the Hyroad . . actually I kind of want to see him try because that would be hilarious. Of course if the Black Widow/Gas Mask gets banned, might be a similar revolt.
Inverted FE2 .046, Storms on our side haha.
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If Chad makes a rule that bans the Hyroad . . actually I kind of want to see him try because that would be hilarious. Of course if the Black Widow/Gas Mask gets banned, might be a similar revolt.
Inverted FE2 .046, Storms on our side haha.
Good call, Gas Mask is definitely another, and brings EBI to the table with Storm.
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Juggernaut
<Gets out his soapbox, and steps up onto it>
Whining solves nothing, and it looks bad on you. I should know, as I have been known to do some myself.
I heard something once about fairness, and while I cannot remember the quote exactly, the gist of it was that nothing was as unfair as trying to make unfair things fair.
You CAN NOT make sports, or games, inherently fair. There will ALWAYS be those able to find things or ways they can exploit.
AND THEY WILL ALWAYS WHINE WHEN THAT THING OR WAY IS TAKEN FROM THEM.
I should know. I had that at one point. I had physical abilities that allowed me to get bowling balls to do what most could not. I was exceptional at it, and the low dynamic cores, urethane covers, and short oil patterns played to my strengths.
I DID NOT LIKE IT WHEN THAT WAS CHANGED.
I also didn’t/don’t like reactive resin. I also didn’t/don’t like super dynamic cores, or oil soaking cover stocks. I considered it UNFAIR to give people equipment that allowed them to do what I could do. I thought they should have to learn and practice the same techniques I had, and that they should have to develop the same physical abilities as I had had to learn.
My opinion, however, changed or stopped NOTHING. Yours won’t either.
Why? Because agenda. Someone ALWAYS has one, and it has absolutely nothing to do with fairness.
Ball makers want to sell balls. Anything that might impact them doing so will be touted, in some way, as either stupid, inane, useless, or unfair to them. Left to their own desires, there would soon be far too many choices for people to make any sense of. We are almost, if not already, there.
Ruling bodies are similar. They want to set playing rules they think are relevant, but challenge them on that, and you will be labeled blind, short sighted, and biased to your own viewpoints. Left to their own desires, they would soon choke out everyone except the elite that agree with them.
The true problem is human nature. Until we learn to look past our own interests, we are locked into a frustrating battle of opinions that eventually manages to ruin even the best things.
Long story cut just a bit shorter is, don’t focus so much on how fair, or unfair, the rules are. Rules makers will do just that, make rules. Some will be good and effective, some will be dumb and useless.
Just focus in good faith on doing the best you can, within the legal limits set forth by those in power and know that everyone with integrity, honor, and desire will do the same. Know your limits, and be happy inside them.
<Steps down off his soapbox, tips his hat, and walks away>
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If only Chad wouldn't be so blind to see these rule changes are nothing more than hurdles for ball manufacturers, for everyone to arrive on the same exact path we're on now. So my .050 diff balls that I drill with a 5" pin become .042 diff balls I drill with a 4" pin. The only thing Chad is shaking up with these useless changes are ball manufacturers R&D departments to modify existing cores, etc.
Us bowlers shouldn't even be the main stakeholders in the push back - it should be the ball co's.
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Well said but honestly don't even care about fair or unfair really. Just resent rug being pulled on equipment I already bought. Makes me not want to spend any more on balls for sure as once bitten. The game changing is a given but screwing over paying customers is a given to a faster death. Banning previously allowed equipment is the part of this that is new (not counting when ball maker screws up) and total garbage. Wonder how many balls would sell if the manufacturer said up front on a big ass label. This ball will only be legal for at most 5 years. Staffers wouldn't care but Joe Public might when they drop a couple hundred dollars.
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Well said but honestly don't even care about fair or unfair really. Just resent rug being pulled on equipment I already bought. Makes me not want to spend any more on balls for sure as once bitten. The game changing is a given but screwing over paying customers is a given to a faster death.
And I was bitter over rug being pulled on physical abilities I had spent years tying to perfect.
I was told not to look at it as screwing me over, that change was inevitable, that it was just a natural evolution of the game, and that I should shut up and “evolve or dieâ€.
Nobody held a gun to your head to make you buy all those balls. USBC is betting you’ll buy some more. If you won’t, then you are irrelevant anyway. They are only interested in what’s yet to come, not what has already been.
I’m still here. You’ll stay too
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Well said but honestly don't even care about fair or unfair really. Just resent rug being pulled on equipment I already bought. Makes me not want to spend any more on balls for sure as once bitten. The game changing is a given but screwing over paying customers is a given to a faster death.
And I was bitter over rug being pulled on physical abilities I had spent years tying to perfect.
I was told not to look at it as screwing me over, that change was inevitable, that it was just a natural evolution of the game, and that I should shut up and “evolve or dieâ€.
Nobody held a gun to your head to make you buy all those balls. USBC is betting you’ll buy some more. If you won’t, then you are irrelevant anyway. They are only interested in what’s yet to come, not what has already been.
I’m still here. You’ll stay too
Actually like I said its all moot (still thanks for some perspective). Was going to bowl a USBC league and tournaments next year but not now. Perfectly fine with staying in the just for fun category in non USBC leagues instead of stepping up to the more competitive category if it means I don't give them a dime. They can't take bowling away all they can do is take themselves away as I don't need competition to enjoy the game. As for looking forward might not be a lot to look forward if they aren't careful. Time is already not really on their side.
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Again, I don't really care. I like big asym cores but rarely get to use them. Most of what I use is in the low to med rg, med diff range. Companies will just get more creative. Just like Mo makes cores that retain their predrilled specs after drilling, they'll make cores that meet tolerances but balloon back up to .060 when they're drilled. Literally nothing to be gained from adjusting specs, only possible outcome is him losing.
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Oh, I know guys.
Not dissing anyone or their views.
Just pointing out the futility of being a person that likes things the way they were/are before people start insisting on changing things just for the sake of change.
I’ve adapted, and adopted, and accepted. I’ve realized that the powers that be weren’t/aren’t interested in what people like some of us who have already invested themselves into things think, only in people who are going to invest more from this point on.
I’m 57 now. Not going to be buying lots of equipment, or going to lots of tournaments. I’ll bowl a league (or two if possible), buy a ball (or two MAYBE), but that’s it. I might even go to nationals once, just because I’ve always wanted to, but that’s about it. So I have become irrelevant, at least from the viewpoint of the governing body and the bowling manufacturers.
The myth of being able to “vote with your dollars†doesn’t really work for me anymore, cause I ain’t spending all that many on bowling. Hell, I’m trying to pad that 401k right now. :D
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Oh, I know guys.
Not dissing anyone or their views.
Just pointing out the futility of being a person that likes things the way they were/are before people start insisting on changing things just for the sake of change.
I’ve adapted, and adopted, and accepted. I’ve realized that the powers that be weren’t/aren’t interested in what people like some of us who have already invested themselves into things think, only in people who are going to invest more from this point on.
I’m 57 now. Not going to be buying lots of equipment, or going to lots of tournaments. I’ll bowl a league (or two if possible), buy a ball (or two MAYBE), but that’s it. I might even go to nationals once, just because I’ve always wanted to, but that’s about it. So I have become irrelevant, at least from the viewpoint of the governing body and the bowling manufacturers.
The myth of being able to “vote with your dollars†doesn’t really work for me anymore, cause I ain’t spending all that many on bowling. Hell, I’m trying to pad that 401k right now. :D
Yeah in the end only like maybe 4 or 5 of my 20+ balls may be in danger and only one of them I consider a non condition specific ball (assuming Hy-Road will be allowed as that is a deal breaker for more than me I assume). Even then likely to be years in the future before banned and so my ability to compete isn't compromised that much if at all. That said still don't want to give the USBC a dime now and this whole business was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Doing it more for me than thinking the USBC is ever going to change. At least aren't going to pay them to sit on their thumbs and think of more ways of banning my equipment on the altar of their ego tournament. That is the hard pill for me to take. If the USBC was coming at this from good intentions a good decade late that would be one thing but this is much more about Chad reactive bruised ego butt hurt than anything.
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From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!
Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045
So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.
I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.
Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.
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This would make for an awesome meltdown in bowling based off of ignorance and arrogance.
To tie this in with sport of bowling vs the game is simple. The difference is the conditions and environment bowled on, not the equipment.
This doen't change that for the common bowlers who see a pro shoot 195 on tv and think they can do better because they average 211 in their one night a week league. Just like golf....until you are standing at the black tees you will not be able to convince someone it is not the same course as the white or yellow tees.
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Hopefully they will be more reasonable and have to differential around .047 or .048 seems more fair imo...
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From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!
Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045
So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.
I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.
Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.
Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.
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.045 Diff once the grace period is over who is going to enforce it. Leagues , tournaments? You would have to have stats on every ball then weight them. Diff by weights may vary and may or may not be within limits Take the Hy-Road 16 is.058 15 is .046 14 is .037. Track Logix 16 is .040 15 is .046 and 14 is .048. So some weights are legal some are not. Just to suggest a Diff limit .045 and give a grace period is crazy.
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.045 Diff once the grace period is over who is going to enforce it. Leagues , tournaments? You would have to have stats on every ball then weight them. Diff by weights may vary and may or may not be within limits Take the Hy-Road 16 is.058 15 is .046 14 is .037. Track Logix 16 is .040 15 is .046 and 14 is .048. So some weights are legal some are not. Just to suggest a Diff limit .045 and give a grace period is crazy.
^^^this.
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From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!
Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045
So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.
I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.
Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.
Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.
I literally thought I was suffering from Alzheimer’s when I read this comment from miloraferty disparaging our illustrious Executive Director so I had to go back and read his previous posts defending all things USBC. Fortunately for me, no Alzheimer’s, I found all those past comments so I have to ask...what changed your mind about the Executive “Douchebag†Director?
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From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!
Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045
So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.
I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.
Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.
Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.
I literally thought I was suffering from Alzheimer’s when I read this comment from miloraferty disparaging our illustrious Executive Director so I had to go back and read his previous posts defending all things USBC. Fortunately for me, no Alzheimer’s, I found all those past comments so I have to ask...what changed your mind about the Executive “Douchebag†Director?
Chad Murphy isn't USBC. I know, I know, it's a concept that you can't comprehend, but USBC is a lot more than that idiot.
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.045 Diff once the grace period is over who is going to enforce it. Leagues , tournaments? You would have to have stats on every ball then weight them. Diff by weights may vary and may or may not be within limits Take the Hy-Road 16 is.058 15 is .046 14 is .037. Track Logix 16 is .040 15 is .046 and 14 is .048. So some weights are legal some are not. Just to suggest a Diff limit .045 and give a grace period is crazy.
This times 1000 ^^^
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All you need to know about the USBC is water is not on their approved chemical/cleaner list. Those dishwasher baths are illegal. Also don't you dare dilute that simple green with water either even in your own home cleaning your own equipment or the sport of bowling will never recover.
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From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!
Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045
So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.
I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.
Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.
Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.
I literally thought I was suffering from Alzheimer’s when I read this comment from miloraferty disparaging our illustrious Executive Director so I had to go back and read his previous posts defending all things USBC. Fortunately for me, no Alzheimer’s, I found all those past comments so I have to ask...what changed your mind about the Executive “Douchebag†Director?
Chad Murphy isn't USBC. I know, I know, it's a concept that you can't comprehend, but USBC is a lot more than that idiot.
Actually Chad is the USBC...just ask him
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From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!
Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045
So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.
I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.
Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.
Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.
I literally thought I was suffering from Alzheimer’s when I read this comment from miloraferty disparaging our illustrious Executive Director so I had to go back and read his previous posts defending all things USBC. Fortunately for me, no Alzheimer’s, I found all those past comments so I have to ask...what changed your mind about the Executive “Douchebag†Director?
Chad Murphy isn't USBC. I know, I know, it's a concept that you can't comprehend, but USBC is a lot more than that idiot.
Actually Chad is the USBC...just ask him
"I am the law." - Chad staring naked in front of his mirror.
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Hack- too funny. ;D
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Shouldn't make it personal but guy doesn't seem very accountable. His bad ideas don't stay only his bad ideas sadly. Still think medium term all these changes do is push more leagues to go non USBC sanctioned.
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If making a 5 year grace period one of the possibilities would be to create a new USBC approved logo. Every ball going forawrd would have to have this logo to be USBC compliant.
So if 2022 was the end of the grace period and the new diff regulation was .045 then no matter what the ball must have this new logo even if it meets the specs criteria from 16 years earlier.
So say it starts as early as 2018, manufactures could start making bowling balls that meet this criteria and get the new logo of USBC2022 and weed some of the older stuff out and eliminate the confusion.
Once again, a lot of undrilled rare and not so rare bowling balls would be worthless at that point and a lot of people would be forced to buy new equipment. Since the easier solution would be to address the oil requirements, and the lack of ability to do so likely because of the BPAA the next option is the equipment. #priceless
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They should make just one ball legal with your choice of color,olive drab green or do do brown.
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They should make just one ball legal with your choice of color,olive drab green or do do brown.
What about a camouflage one as well? You know so many have to have a "hybrid" option as well.
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Shouldn't make it personal but guy doesn't seem very accountable. His bad ideas don't stay only his bad ideas sadly. Still think medium term all these changes do is push more leagues to go non USBC sanctioned.
Could not agree more. Personally I bowl 2 leagues in which the decision to sanction was a close vote in each and I think if the dopes at the USBC go forward with this and alienate members with any proposals to make balls illegal quite a few bowlers like myself will vote the other way next season. Most members don't get jack shit from being a USBC member and think the sanction fee is a waste of money now and if you add to that number that is the fast lane to making the USBC obsolete.
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They should make just one ball legal with your choice of color,olive drab green or do do brown.
What about a camouflage one as well? You know so many have to have a "hybrid" option as well.
I like it!
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I just saw the diff on the new plastic ball I bought and realized it would be banned under this new limit. Widow Spare.
I never thought to check the specs on it before. I just wanted a plastic ball with a real core after leaving so many 5 pins with my White Dot. This Widow Spare does carry a lot better.
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Dale Jenkins. “They’re ruining bowlingâ€.
Nuff said.
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I just saw the diff on the new plastic ball I bought and realized it would be banned under this new limit. Widow Spare.
I never thought to check the specs on it before. I just wanted a plastic ball with a real core after leaving so many 5 pins with my White Dot. This Widow Spare does carry a lot better.
But if it has a big core its ruining bowling regardless of cover stock. Ban it and that Hot Cell as well. Bet the ball makers are going to be happy to see everyone put the brakes on buying balls to see what Chad does.
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.045 Diff once the grace period is over who is going to enforce it. Leagues , tournaments? You would have to have stats on every ball then weight them. Diff by weights may vary and may or may not be within limits Take the Hy-Road 16 is.058 15 is .046 14 is .037. Track Logix 16 is .040 15 is .046 and 14 is .048. So some weights are legal some are not. Just to suggest a Diff limit .045 and give a grace period is crazy.
This is what I was wondering. Since I throw 14, my Hy-roads are under .045 differential. Would all balls be banned just because 15 and 16 are over, or would the lower weights be allowed? How would you police that? And how do you think someone who throws 15 or 16 would feel that their hy-road is now illegal, but others are not? Especially those who are just casual league bowlers.
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Chad would just say everyone needs to shell out hundreds more on new equipment and quit whining. That will do wonders for the sport especially since the grey beard loyalists are barely hanging on as it is. Sure they want to buy lots of new equipment.
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if/when USBC publishes their new rule on maximum diff, Storm should re-release all of the now banned balls but just tweak the diff to make them USBC legal.
Then give them all the same names but call them USBC version 2.0 or maybe name them Chad Murphy Specials. Then make them smell like ass.
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USBC puts these new rules into affect what stops the
Ball companies start their own league sanctioning body partnering with BPAA? Have a sanction fee of $10. They can have the same concepts of 3 levels of league: standard, competitive, and scratch. Come up with oil patterns for each that the BPAA would agree to and ball standards that are capped where balls made today meet and revisit both standards every year to tweak but not go backwards. Come up with awards and programs that cater to each type of bowler. The ball companies and the proprietors should work together and both know more about the sport or entertainment aspects of bowling far more than the dumb asses at the USBC.
Who needs the USBC???
It can go just like that and the USBC becomes a thing of the past. And no one would miss it......
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^^^^ this needs to happen yesterday.
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if/when USBC publishes their new rule on maximum diff, Storm should re-release all of the now banned balls but just tweak the diff to make them USBC legal.
Then give them all the same names but call them USBC version 2.0 or maybe name them Chad Murphy Specials. Then make them smell like ass.
I'll take a Paradox Black Neutered version please
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Sanction leagues, come up with lane patterns and ball standards and have an awards program for $10. An existing organization can't do it for $10 and you think a new startup organization could?
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Payment should be much more, and I'd be happy to pay even $100 a year for a sane sanctioning body.
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This ^^^^
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Yeah this is something I've been harping on for years. What can ANYONE do with $10? It probably costs them half that just to enter your information into the computer and issue your sanction card. People want some really dumb stuff for 83 CENTS A MONTH. If I gave you 83 cents a month, what could you do for me? 83 cents isn't even worth the hassle of carrying it around in your pocket.
Maybe it would be rough to charge it all at the same time, but what if it was like a monthly membership? I'd pay $10 a month to belong to an organization that was an actual organization, but to be fair, I don't know how much of an organization USBC can be on $10 a YEAR. People want to complain about Chad Murphy, but on $10 a year, that's all they can afford. You get what you pay for. USBC sucks, but they don't have the money to be better.
Payment should be much more, and I'd be happy to pay even $100 a year for a sane sanctioning body.
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Yeah this is something I've been harping on for years. What can ANYONE do with $10? It probably costs them half that just to enter your information into the computer and issue your sanction card. People want some really dumb stuff for 83 CENTS A MONTH. If I gave you 83 cents a month, what could you do for me? 83 cents isn't even worth the hassle of carrying it around in your pocket.
Maybe it would be rough to charge it all at the same time, but what if it was like a monthly membership? I'd pay $10 a month to belong to an organization that was an actual organization, but to be fair, I don't know how much of an organization USBC can be on $10 a YEAR. People want to complain about Chad Murphy, but on $10 a year, that's all they can afford. You get what you pay for. USBC sucks, but they don't have the money to be better.
Payment should be much more, and I'd be happy to pay even $100 a year for a sane sanctioning body.
I think part of the problem is the perceived diminished return on investment. Most people bowl for 36 weeks a year sanctioned. Most people don't care about the other 16 weeks. They're not bowling. They've gotten used to multiple rings for shooting 800 and 300 on the China, and when USBC finally came to their senses about awards, people get angry. "It used to cost me $10 a year to get my yearly 300 ring where I can spray and pray the ball and exhibit the minimum amount of skill, and now I only get one!!!"
Years of USBC giving away stuff, along with soft league conditions, has lead us here. There is no "fixing" USBC in it's current state. "You want me to bowl on something tougher AND pay more? I'm not paying USBC for that!!"
Instead, USBC needs to be where the bowlers whom enjoy the GAME reside. After all of this talk, there HAS to be a separate sanctioning body that is for the SPORT of bowling ONLY. Make it cost alot! Make the benefits great too! "Oh, you're a member of USBC? Open bowling is $3." "Oh, you're a member of *insert new association name here*? Open bowling is $1.50. Would you like to bowl on something you would like to learn on, or on the house shot?"
There's a difference between saying you're a pro baseball player and saying you go to the batting cages to mess around.
I'll sign up right now for $10 a month to be able to compete and grow and learn as an athlete. No need for paper newsletters. Email blasts. Save printing costs.
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I advocate for rules to toughen up the league conditions.
Return to the days where you needed to have a score validated by the local sanction body with lane tapes before an honor score is approved.
Does it have to be dead flat .... NO. But less taper and ramp would be a welcome change. Wet/Dry SUCKS anyway.
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Sorry, but as has been said before. League bowlers DO NOT WANT
TOUGHER conditions. Making the shot tougher is not going to save bowling.
What is so f'ing hard to understand about that? Bowling proprietors want to make a profit, so they give bowlers the conditions they want, otherwise, those bowlers to go a house that will, or quit bowling entirely.
If you think I'm wrong, get off your complaining, lazy asses and start up some sport pattern leagues...oh and enjoy that night alone in the bowling alley because bowlers have proven over and over again that they just aren't going to do it. You MIGHT get a decent(or even full league) the first season, but probably not. And if you do, it will be empty the next year.
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"Here's what I want. I as a family man with kids in school, busy constantly, money going everywhere constantly, etc., what I want when I go out for recreation is to have to drop a grand on equipment, and I want something that really challenges me to the point where I have to find extra hours in the week and extra money in the bank to really go practice and focus on my mechanics and spare game. Then of course I need tape with copper in it and compression sleeves and rolls of KT tape, after I spend several hours watching videos on how to properly apply it, just so that I can feel good about myself shooting 200 on a 'tough' condition, or so I don't get condescended to or called a house hack anymore, or yelled at for 'screwing up someone else's line because I'm a dumbass.' That's the dream right there. Yeap, that's what I really want."
- Said no one ever. Case closed.
Sorry, but as has been said before. League bowlers DO NOT WANT
TOUGHER conditions. Making the shot tougher is not going to save bowling.
What is so f'ing hard to understand about that? Bowling proprietors want to make a profit, so they give bowlers the conditions they want, otherwise, those bowlers to go a house that will, or quit bowling entirely.
If you think I'm wrong, get off your complaining, lazy asses and start up some sport pattern leagues...oh and enjoy that night alone in the bowling alley because bowlers have proven over and over again that they just aren't going to do it. You MIGHT get a decent(or even full league) the first season, but probably not. And if you do, it will be empty the next year.
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"Here's what I want. I as a family man with kids in school, busy constantly, money going everywhere constantly, etc., what I want when I go out for recreation is to have to drop a grand on equipment, and I want something that really challenges me to the point where I have to find extra hours in the week and extra money in the bank to really go practice and focus on my mechanics and spare game. Then of course I need tape with copper in it and compression sleeves and rolls of KT tape, after I spend several hours watching videos on how to properly apply it, just so that I can feel good about myself shooting 200 on a 'tough' condition, or so I don't get condescended to or called a house hack anymore, or yelled at for 'screwing up someone else's line because I'm a dumbass.' That's the dream right there. Yeap, that's what I really want."
- Said no one ever. Case closed.
Sorry, but as has been said before. League bowlers DO NOT WANT
TOUGHER conditions. Making the shot tougher is not going to save bowling.
What is so f'ing hard to understand about that? Bowling proprietors want to make a profit, so they give bowlers the conditions they want, otherwise, those bowlers to go a house that will, or quit bowling entirely.
If you think I'm wrong, get off your complaining, lazy asses and start up some sport pattern leagues...oh and enjoy that night alone in the bowling alley because bowlers have proven over and over again that they just aren't going to do it. You MIGHT get a decent(or even full league) the first season, but probably not. And if you do, it will be empty the next year.
+1
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>USBC sucks, but they don't have the money to be better.
I know I sure want to give them more of my money to ban all my equipment.
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Lets not feel too sorry for the USBC operating budget. I've looked over the numbers as they're public..has anyone else? When you break it down per person, yes its ridiculously cheap, but it could be $5 and some people would still complain. The reason some people would still complain is because the USBC doesn't do anything to show people what they actually do for bowling.
We assume they collect everyone's money, play around with their rule book, and approve bowling balls from manufacturers, and that is it. Please tell me about something else they do that the general bowling community knows about without them having to do doing research into the USBC. I'll wait....
One of the keys to them getting positive feedback about sanctioning fees from the bowling community is transparency. Make examples public like
-"20% of fees taken in this year will be covering Awards. "
- "The USBC has decided to run traveling camps to help youth bowlers develop their skills that will take 3.5% of our budget this year."
-"We at the USBC are looking to improve "insert aspect of bowling" and will be sending out surveys asking for opinions via email to your registered email when you became sanctioned this year. Also guess what, we wont continue utilizing condescending Facebook posts deleting any comments that are more than one word answers"
Chad Murphy has reached a point where he doesn't actually give a sh!t what any of us think. He has an agenda to change bowling the way he thinks is best and we're along for the ride. No one, no matter the cost wants to contribute to such a cause, and honestly would prefer to spend their money in a rebellion to it. It doesn't take a political genius to see that Chad needs to run repair on himself publicly to the bowling community before he can turn this ship in the right direction. It doesn't matter what kind of person he might actually be and knowledge he might actually have. He allowed a specific image to be created of himself, and many just see Hitler at the helm at this point.
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Chad does needs to get off the ship and let someone else be the captain. Chad Murphy and his failing ideas have been tried, with ZERO progress. It's time for next man(or woman) up.
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As long as crooks like Frank DeSocio at the BPAA are calling the shots at the USBC Chad is protected. He’s making his 300k a year and he’s gonna ride it all the way down because nobody on the planet is paying a high school educated ball rep that kind of money except the USBC.
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Chad does needs to get off the ship and let someone else be the captain. Chad Murphy and his failing ideas have been tried, with ZERO progress. It's time for next man(or woman) up.
Agree, milo
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I know I am reiterating a few things here, but I digress. I am seventeen years old, just started bowling three years ago, and I don't see this going well at all, because, as you all said, the lower rev bowlers are the ones really being hit by this, however, this could hurt, not the majority, but a somewhat noticeable part of the future of bowling, as, even though hook doesn't equal skill, there are some kids who just want to bowl, have fun and hook the ball, I see in my youth league even today hook envy, and this will only limit what those smaller kids can do, frustrating them, maybe even prompting them to quit.
This may just be my experience at league, but if it isn't, these possible ruling may have some dire consequences.
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I know I am reiterating a few things here, but I digress. I am seventeen years old, just started bowling three years ago, and I don't see this going well at all, because, as you all said, the lower rev bowlers are the ones really being hit by this, however, this could hurt, not the majority, but a somewhat noticeable part of the future of bowling, as, even though hook doesn't equal skill, there are some kids who just want to bowl, have fun and hook the ball, I see in my youth league even today hook envy, and this will only limit what those smaller kids can do, frustrating them, maybe even prompting them to quit.
This may just be my experience at league, but if it isn't, these possible ruling may have some dire consequences.
Thanks for giving us a younger perspective which the sport/game badly needs. Good job Chad even the future thinks yeah that idea is just the worst.
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I know I am reiterating a few things here, but I digress. I am seventeen years old, just started bowling three years ago, and I don't see this going well at all, because, as you all said, the lower rev bowlers are the ones really being hit by this, however, this could hurt, not the majority, but a somewhat noticeable part of the future of bowling, as, even though hook doesn't equal skill, there are some kids who just want to bowl, have fun and hook the ball, I see in my youth league even today hook envy, and this will only limit what those smaller kids can do, frustrating them, maybe even prompting them to quit.
This may just be my experience at league, but if it isn't, these possible ruling may have some dire consequences.
Thanks for giving us a younger perspective which the sport/game badly needs. Good job Chad even the future thinks yeah that idea is just the worst.
I think it was tou who mentioned it Hack, but don't you think the patterns will be modified to allow the changes in equipment to hook? There are a few places around my area that already don't put out out enough oil for hook monsters to show their actual potential. Balls that are middle of the road tend to hook more where bowlers like seeing the shape. In my case, I have to throw stuff like a Boost, Purple Pearl Urethane, and a Pitch Black.
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Sanction leagues, come up with lane patterns and ball standards and have an awards program for $10. An existing organization can't do it for $10 and you think a new startup organization could?
10$ was an arbitrary number, but if you ask 75% of people who pay the USBC sanction fee why or what the purpose of the fee is they will not be able to answer. My only point is the USBC can easily be replaced and/or most leagues can go the non-sanction route. I live in Northeast and during golf seasons I play in one league and play at least once a week in addition and I am not a USGA member as there is no need unless you do tournaments to be a member. Same really holds true for USBC in bowling there is little need to be a member and it can and will be replaced if it pisses off the bowlers who at this time think there is a worth to being sanctions as they are the ones who sway many leagues into deciding to be sanctioned.
I myself would gladly pay much more if I believed the USBC was truly doing the best for the sport and the game and its members. I do not believe that to be true since its inception and especially now with this dumb fck Chad in charge.
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everything below
+100
Lets not feel too sorry for the USBC operating budget. I've looked over the numbers as they're public..has anyone else? When you break it down per person, yes its ridiculously cheap, but it could be $5 and some people would still complain. The reason some people would still complain is because the USBC doesn't do anything to show people what they actually do for bowling.
We assume they collect everyone's money, play around with their rule book, and approve bowling balls from manufacturers, and that is it. Please tell me about something else they do that the general bowling community knows about without them having to do doing research into the USBC. I'll wait....
One of the keys to them getting positive feedback about sanctioning fees from the bowling community is transparency. Make examples public like
-"20% of fees taken in this year will be covering Awards. "
- "The USBC has decided to run traveling camps to help youth bowlers develop their skills that will take 3.5% of our budget this year."
-"We at the USBC are looking to improve "insert aspect of bowling" and will be sending out surveys asking for opinions via email to your registered email when you became sanctioned this year. Also guess what, we wont continue utilizing condescending Facebook posts deleting any comments that are more than one word answers"
Chad Murphy has reached a point where he doesn't actually give a sh!t what any of us think. He has an agenda to change bowling the way he thinks is best and we're along for the ride. No one, no matter the cost wants to contribute to such a cause, and honestly would prefer to spend their money in a rebellion to it. It doesn't take a political genius to see that Chad needs to run repair on himself publicly to the bowling community before he can turn this ship in the right direction. It doesn't matter what kind of person he might actually be and knowledge he might actually have. He allowed a specific image to be created of himself, and many just see Hitler at the helm at this point.
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You can't compare the USGA and the USBC. The USGA has the cash cow that is the US Open that basically funds everything they do.
There are many golfers that are not USGA members directly but pay for the GHIN handicap service through their course, club or league, which is run by the USGA.
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You can always compare organizations that establish the rules for the 2 largest participation sports for adults in this country. But I agree they are nothing alike after that, the USGA is respected, the USBC is a joke.
You can't compare the USGA and the USBC. The USGA has the cash cow that is the US Open that basically funds everything they do.
There are many golfers that are not USGA members directly but pay for the GHIN handicap service through their course, club or league, which is run by the USGA.
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Golf also doesn't seem to debate itself on if its a sport or a social gathering. Probably because it doesn't matter. Yet in bowling it feels it has to… at least for some
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I know I am reiterating a few things here, but I digress. I am seventeen years old, just started bowling three years ago, and I don't see this going well at all, because, as you all said, the lower rev bowlers are the ones really being hit by this, however, this could hurt, not the majority, but a somewhat noticeable part of the future of bowling, as, even though hook doesn't equal skill, there are some kids who just want to bowl, have fun and hook the ball, I see in my youth league even today hook envy, and this will only limit what those smaller kids can do, frustrating them, maybe even prompting them to quit.
This may just be my experience at league, but if it isn't, these possible ruling may have some dire consequences.
Thanks for giving us a younger perspective which the sport/game badly needs. Good job Chad even the future thinks yeah that idea is just the worst.
I think it was tou who mentioned it Hack, but don't you think the patterns will be modified to allow the changes in equipment to hook? There are a few places around my area that already don't put out out enough oil for hook monsters to show their actual potential. Balls that are middle of the road tend to hook more where bowlers like seeing the shape. In my case, I have to throw stuff like a Boost, Purple Pearl Urethane, and a Pitch Black.
I would say as long as they don't ban equipment I already bought I would be fine with it but honestly at this point just can't see myself ever bowling in a USBC sanctioned league while that toolbag is still in charge. Just won't do it. Luckily you can enjoy bowling quite easily without giving the USBC money which I am sure chaps their hide. Eventually I will step up in competition level but in no rush. Love the game and not going to let the sport ruin it. If they allowed my Hy-Road (what I mostly use anyway) I know I could compete just fine but just the slimey way this is all being done is what bothers me. If these changes go through not sure I will ever really want to join the USBC because what's next with no accountability? Will still obviously affect the balls going forward you can buy but at least they will get no money from me. If I honestly believed this was being done for the good of the game or would even fix the problems its supposed to, wouldn't have posted to this thread at all. You are going to see even more absorbent cover stocks to make up for the difference so Chad's double burn is going to be just as FUBAR.
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Here's the thing. Hook happens because of friction. Pattern is defined by center owners. Customers want hook. Owners make the pattern hook. USBC doesn't care about any pattern details other than the stupid 3 units rule. Scores stay the same. Nothing changes. Bowling dies, everyone rejoices that it's finally been put down like the lame dog it's been for 25 years, we rebuild as a community, everyone still bitches, we never get any respect, rinse repeat.
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Yes sir, unfortunately. :(
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Good thing Hyperbowl is here to ride to the rescue. Seriously though guess I can at least stop bitching as my contribution to ending that pattern. What happens happens and will let the indifference begin. Nobody is stopping me from going to lanes with the balls I own and nobody will so its all good.
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I am completely against the ball spec change. If there has to be a change, then change the lane conditions. If the balls spec change does happen, and it is a 5 year grace period. I will not buy ANY new equipment. I will use what I have now till then. I will be 58 years young in 5 years. Then I will either retire from bowling OR bowl in a non sanctioned league. Case closed.
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Only thing that needs to change is making your local association check these lame ass lane conditions.90% of house shots probably wouldn't pass.They check once a year the lane man knows then puts out white pattern or something legal.I know this for a fact thats what our association does.Instead of the stupid 3 unit rule which was from urethane days up it to 6 units.Then watch the scores lower.Ball manufacturers need to just start there own association .USBC is a joke cant even enforce simple rules.
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There are several reasons why the USBC doesn't really try to enforce the lane dressing rule. Primarily because if a score is denied, the whiny bowler sues the USBC. You only have to look at the history of the ABC in the 1980's when they did try to enforce lane dressing rules and were almost sued out of existence. So they gave up put in the limited distance rule and then finally the rule we have today.
Besides with the ability of the balls to manipulate lane conditions, How long would 3 units last on on the lane? The 3 units would probably be gone by the end of the practice session and then the whiny bowlers would complain that there was some carry down that made it harder to score.
So they propose a rule to limit the ability of the ball to change the lanes. Of course the rule will never get in but all the whiny bowlers complain that it might take away their chance to score.
Continue to whine about everything, it just make you that much easier to beat.
Get rid of the USBC if you want chaos. You can't legally use their rules as I'm sure they are copyrighted.
Who is going to check lane beds to be level? The BPAA proprietors, I doubt it.
Who is going to check gutter depths, pin specs, ball specs? The manufactures they have in interest in making illegal equipment.
Who is going to maintain a national average database?
Run national, state, and local tournaments?
Bond league prize money? Punish league officers embezzling funds?
I shudder to think what is going to happen as the baby boomers start dropping out in mass. You'll be hard pressed to find a bowling center except in larger metro areas and then it will be about cosmic bowling.
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I guess I posted in the wrong thread because most of my comments are in the "About making some balls illegal" thread and there's no reason to repeat those here...
Staying completely within a discussion of the USBC here, it needs to go out of business. I say that as a former association president, too. It needs to go out of business right now.
Someone mentioned having the ball companies and the BPAA take over certification. I'm not sure they're any better. But they basically can't be any worse. The unfortunate truth is 30 years ago, just about every center had a competent lane guy. These days it's probably 1 of every 3, 1 of every 5. Our other big problem is the number of houses going no-league. The BPAA holds all the leverage for our future, and it's about time to recognize that and let them drive the bus as best they can.
Since people like to compare bowling and golf so much, how many of you guys can say you have played a course set up for a tour event? I'd wager 99 of 100 semi-serious golfers can't say that. But all of them have USGA handicaps, I'll bet. Well, I *can* say I have -- and it was just an LPGA course, the RTJ Capitol Hill/Senator course in Prattville, Ala. I played it the day before the tournament started. If I went a foot outside the fairway, I had grass up to my shins. Glass for putting surfaces. And you could tell where they had allowed the fairway grass to pinch in from its usual cut.
My point is, there's nothing similar between Senator set up for a LPGA tour event and my local country club on a normal Sunday, other than they're both outside. Watching some of our self-appointed bowling caretakers try to force every competitive bowler onto sport conditions is suicidal.
Nothing about bowling's decline is tied to score. Nothing. I used to get in all kinds of arguments here with that writer (can't remember the name) over this. It's length of season, it's the loss of the blue-collar factory shift worker, it's the decline of the middle-class earner in general, it's the internet, it's video games, it's the fact society doesn't like to socialize in public the way it did 50 years ago. And it's not just us. It's every participatory sport in the country. We used to have adult soccer leagues here, a bustling adult softball league, etc. They're all gone. Golf is declining as fast or faster than we are and courses are going out of business left and right.
League bowling will never "come back." We might be able to stabilize it but we're not going to see a long-term revival. If the USBC wants to live, it needs to focus on protecting what it has for as long as it can, and hope for a miracle. That's literally your best hope.
I don't think the USBC knows how to fix itself, though, and I don't think enough USBC regional/national employees care about much more than job preservation. Maybe something better will rise from its ashes, maybe not. But I'm done defending the organization and for that matter, will do whatever I can, however small that might be, to end it if it keeps going down the road it's on.
Jess
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>Who is going to check lane beds to be level? The BPAA proprietors, I doubt it.
>Who is going to check gutter depths, pin specs, ball specs? The manufactures they have in interest in making illegal equipment.
>Who is going to maintain a national average database?
>Run national, state, and local tournaments?
>Bond league prize money? Punish league officers embezzling funds?
Literally every one of those things don't matter for just for fun leagues which is why the USBC better watch its back. Bowling the sport is dying much faster than bowling the game. Its very possible to enjoy bowling without competition being the only point believe it or not. I dare guess the vast majority of people are in that category.
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Could not agree more than with the last 2 posts,
Posted by: HackJandy & JessN16 :)
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>Who is going to check lane beds to be level? The BPAA proprietors, I doubt it.
>Who is going to check gutter depths, pin specs, ball specs? The manufactures they have in interest in making illegal equipment.
>Who is going to maintain a national average database?
>Run national, state, and local tournaments?
>Bond league prize money? Punish league officers embezzling funds?
Literally every one of those things don't matter for just for fun leagues which is why the USBC better watch its back. Bowling the sport is dying much faster than bowling the game. Its very possible to enjoy bowling without competition being the only point believe it or not. I dare guess the vast majority of people are in that category.
I'll throw in that a couple of houses I've bowled in recently have made it mandatory that the house be appointed fiduciary over the league. You can vote a different secretary if you want, but they will be secretary in name only. The house keeps the money and sets the rules (i.e., if you don't pay for two weeks, you sit). They got just as tired of being shorted at year's end as bowlers did having to pay for people who didn't show up.
Tournaments -- I bowled in one last year that had 35 people show up. The last time I bowled in it, which was about 20 years prior, they had 650+ entries. The tournament director actually had to void and redo the prize payout agreement this time because they didn't have enough entrants show up to get the lineage discount.
Average database -- You copy the USGA system. Have your league secretary input it, or input it yourself. The technology to maintain a database like that is child's play.
Ball specs -- I literally don't care. All I care about is the ball falls under max weight standards (16 pounds), has no moving parts and isn't made of a metallic component. If you want to load it up with 6 pounds of side weight, have at it. You still have to throw it well to score. The best thing that could happen on the equipment side right now is to throw out 90 percent of the rules and let people innovate.
Jess
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>Who is going to check lane beds to be level? The BPAA proprietors, I doubt it.
>Who is going to check gutter depths, pin specs, ball specs? The manufactures they have in interest in making illegal equipment.
>Who is going to maintain a national average database?
>Run national, state, and local tournaments?
>Bond league prize money? Punish league officers embezzling funds?
Literally every one of those things don't matter for just for fun leagues which is why the USBC better watch its back. Bowling the sport is dying much faster than bowling the game. Its very possible to enjoy bowling without competition being the only point believe it or not. I dare guess the vast majority of people are in that category.
I'll throw in that a couple of houses I've bowled in recently have made it mandatory that the house be appointed fiduciary over the league. You can vote a different secretary if you want, but they will be secretary in name only. The house keeps the money and sets the rules (i.e., if you don't pay for two weeks, you sit). They got just as tired of being shorted at year's end as bowlers did having to pay for people who didn't show up.
Tournaments -- I bowled in one last year that had 35 people show up. The last time I bowled in it, which was about 20 years prior, they had 650+ entries. The tournament director actually had to void and redo the prize payout agreement this time because they didn't have enough entrants show up to get the lineage discount.
Average database -- You copy the USGA system. Have your league secretary input it, or input it yourself. The technology to maintain a database like that is child's play.
Ball specs -- I literally don't care. All I care about is the ball falls under max weight standards (16 pounds), has no moving parts and isn't made of a metallic component. If you want to load it up with 6 pounds of side weight, have at it. You still have to throw it well to score. The best thing that could happen on the equipment side right now is to throw out 90 percent of the rules and let people innovate.
Jess
I have to agree somewhat with getting rid of 90% of the rules. create too strong of a ball, and it will puke all of the energy as soon as it hits the lane. what have you gained, then? We already see it happening with the current book monsters. there have been no huge advancements in ball technology in how many years? Despite what the companies say.
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USBC got on my bad side when I realized water is not one of their approved cleaner chemical list and that following the label on Simple Green original (perfectly legal at full strength) and diluting it with water even in my own house to clean my own stuff is against their ass nine rules (you will buy $2 an oz ball cleaner and smile, don't think so). Banning 1/4 of my arsenal is the cherry on the crap sundae and just means no USBC tournaments or competitive leagues for me basically ever looking like or more likely for 3 to 5 years or so when they disappear. Honestly fine either way but not giving them a dime as long as dictator for life Chad is in charge period. Will use time to hone game until reason returns to the sport. Plenty of unsanctioned just for fun leagues in area and league priced open bowling sure doesn't care about the diff of my balls. Got to be good for the sport putting up barriers so even people who love bowling avoid the competitive side. That will really grow their membership banning people's arsenal just in the belief that their aging shrinking membership who could probably now use the diff more than ever will think things are more fair. Whatever, good not to mix up money and bowling anyway. Easy way to dislike the game. Will never let the sport ruin the game for me.
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USBC got on my bad side when I realized water is not one of their approved cleaner chemical list and that following the label on Simple Green original (perfectly legal at full strength) and diluting it with water even in my own house to clean my own stuff is against their ass nine rules (you will buy $2 an oz ball cleaner and smile, don't think so). Banning 1/4 of my arsenal is the cherry on the crap sundae and just means no USBC tournaments or competitive leagues for me basically ever looking like or more likely for 3 to 5 years or so when they disappear. Honestly fine either way but not giving them a dime as long as dictator for life Chad is in charge period. Will use time to hone game until reason returns to the sport. Plenty of unsanctioned just for fun leagues in area and league priced open bowling sure doesn't care about the diff of my balls. Got to be good for the sport putting up barriers so even people who love bowling avoid the competitive side. That will really grow their membership banning people's arsenal just in the belief that their aging shrinking membership who could probably now use the diff more than ever will think things are more fair. Whatever, good not to mix up money and bowling anyway. Easy way to dislike the game. Will never let the sport ruin the game for me.
I've been out of loop for so long I hadn't even paid attention to these cleaner rules until I started poking around this forum again. To be blunt, I'll clean my ball at home with whatever works and doesn't make the thing run afoul of a durometer. For me that means dishwasher and a little Dawn. I never used anything else besides rubbing alcohol, anyway, especially not while I was actually at a venue, so that's not a big deal, but when you're talking about being at home over an offseason (which is when I do extraction) and you try to tell me WATER is a no-no, I'm just going to laugh at you. That's nothing more than economic protectionism for sponsor companies, sorry.
On the tournament side, the biggest tournaments we have running in our area right now -- and they have a weekly component and then a "season-end" component to them as well -- are all unsanctioned no-taps or 40-framers. This happened pretty quickly about 5-6 years ago, where people stopped doing traditional-format tournaments and went to that. I personally don't find either format to be that much fun, but that's what the public wants. And neither of them have a thing to do with the USBC other than they use a book average for flighting purposes. You get competent, trustworthy people running a fun tournament that moves quickly and suddenly there's no need for the other stuff.
Jess
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USBC got on my bad side when I realized water is not one of their approved cleaner chemical list and that following the label on Simple Green original (perfectly legal at full strength) and diluting it with water even in my own house to clean my own stuff is against their ass nine rules (you will buy $2 an oz ball cleaner and smile, don't think so). Banning 1/4 of my arsenal is the cherry on the crap sundae and just means no USBC tournaments or competitive leagues for me basically ever looking like or more likely for 3 to 5 years or so when they disappear. Honestly fine either way but not giving them a dime as long as dictator for life Chad is in charge period. Will use time to hone game until reason returns to the sport. Plenty of unsanctioned just for fun leagues in area and league priced open bowling sure doesn't care about the diff of my balls. Got to be good for the sport putting up barriers so even people who love bowling avoid the competitive side. That will really grow their membership banning people's arsenal just in the belief that their aging shrinking membership who could probably now use the diff more than ever will think things are more fair. Whatever, good not to mix up money and bowling anyway. Easy way to dislike the game. Will never let the sport ruin the game for me.
Did you actually contact USBC directly on water because it isn't listed on approved or on non-approved, or listed as only for before or after use list. One product listed as approved for use during is a water based oil remover by LMB industries. I would assume water is not an issue and they didn't think it would have to be listed.
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Approved_cleaner_polish.pdf
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I shudder to think what is going to happen as the baby boomers start dropping out in mass. You'll be hard pressed to find a bowling center except in larger metro areas and then it will be about cosmic bowling.
This. Things will be changing big time in the next 10 years.
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USBC got on my bad side when I realized water is not one of their approved cleaner chemical list and that following the label on Simple Green original (perfectly legal at full strength) and diluting it with water even in my own house to clean my own stuff is against their ass nine rules (you will buy $2 an oz ball cleaner and smile, don't think so). Banning 1/4 of my arsenal is the cherry on the crap sundae and just means no USBC tournaments or competitive leagues for me basically ever looking like or more likely for 3 to 5 years or so when they disappear. Honestly fine either way but not giving them a dime as long as dictator for life Chad is in charge period. Will use time to hone game until reason returns to the sport. Plenty of unsanctioned just for fun leagues in area and league priced open bowling sure doesn't care about the diff of my balls. Got to be good for the sport putting up barriers so even people who love bowling avoid the competitive side. That will really grow their membership banning people's arsenal just in the belief that their aging shrinking membership who could probably now use the diff more than ever will think things are more fair. Whatever, good not to mix up money and bowling anyway. Easy way to dislike the game. Will never let the sport ruin the game for me.
Did you actually contact USBC directly on water because it isn't listed on approved or on non-approved, or listed as only for before or after use list. One product listed as approved for use during is a water based oil remover by LMB industries. I would assume water is not an issue and they didn't think it would have to be listed.
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Approved_cleaner_polish.pdf
The comment about water came about during discussions of Simple Green. Simple Green is listed as an approved cleaner, however, it was assumed Simple Green could not be diluted (must use the official commercial product without alteration). Then it was discussed how water is not listed as an approved chemical.
I am sure water is allowed. However, the way the rules are written and supposedly inferred to be followed is confusing.
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I asked USBC and they confirmed water is allowed and must be dried from the ball surface prior to throwing it.
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I asked USBC and they confirmed water is allowed and must be dried from the ball surface prior to throwing it.
Well that's a relief lol. With the USBC assume nothing. Still thanks for the clarification. Its just too bad I have corrupted my arsenal for eternity because I have dared mixed SG with water and sprayed it on them in my own home to clean my own equipment. Its ok though because the USBC is looking to phase out a good portion of my arsenal anyway because they can. Sanction fees from me don't think so. Be unsanctioned just for fun leagues in my near to medium term future (funny thing can find them cheaper at only $11 a week no up front fees in my area too, funny how the lanes can run them sans the USBC). Funny thing about bowling is fun should come first at least for me. Those big bad four digit prize checks (and only if world class lmfao) just don't have much allure for me on the holy sport side. Keep rearranging them deck chairs on the Titanic USBC.
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If they were serious about maintaining the "integrity" of the game, they would start with outlawing 2 handed and thumb-less bowling.
In most instances, the rev rates generated by these styles defiantly give the player an advantage over the traditional style bowler. The rev rates and entry angles created by this leads to massive carry in most instances. I equate this in golf with the anchored club rule or the head-on putting rule.
In addition, when I turn on the PBA (what is left of it) and see guys winging two handed shots, doing something I cannot physically do, I just turn it off. I can't relate. ... and I'm not alone.
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If they were serious about maintaining the "integrity" of the game, they would start with outlawing 2 handed and thumb-less bowling.
In most instances, the rev rates generated by these styles defiantly give the player an advantage over the traditional style bowler. The rev rates and entry angles created by this leads to massive carry in most instances. I equate this in golf with the anchored club rule or the head-on putting rule.
In addition, when I turn on the PBA (what is left of it) and see guys winging two handed shots, doing something I cannot physically do, I just turn it off. I can't relate. ... and I'm not alone.
C'mon man.
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double C'mon man
Just because you can't do it, it should be outlawed?
Being a middle aged house hack I hope all the kids coming up throwing 2 handed actually grow the sport. Maybe if they are having fun and they bring their friends into the game showing them how much fun it is and possibly grow or at least keep it alive as a sport for years to come.
In reality there is not a big difference in 1 handed vs 2 handed, it really is more because no thumb is used allowing for the revs and the 2nd hand is a stabilizer. Because of the weight of balls the sport has always allowed wrist devices to drastically improve their release which golf would never so the comparison is not a good one but if you want golf lets you use both hands and doesn't tell you how many fingers/thumbs to use.
If they were serious about maintaining the "integrity" of the game, they would start with outlawing 2 handed and thumb-less bowling.
In most instances, the rev rates generated by these styles defiantly give the player an advantage over the traditional style bowler. The rev rates and entry angles created by this leads to massive carry in most instances. I equate this in golf with the anchored club rule or the head-on putting rule.
In addition, when I turn on the PBA (what is left of it) and see guys winging two handed shots, doing something I cannot physically do, I just turn it off. I can't relate. ... and I'm not alone.
C'mon man.
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So what are the latest proposed ball specifications that USBC is sending to the ball companies? I saw this article but I don't have a subscription to read the full story.
https://11thframe.com/news/article/10104/Ball-companies-have-until-March-15-to-respond-to-USBCs-latest-proposed
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So what are the latest proposed ball specifications that USBC is sending to the ball companies? I saw this article but I don't have a subscription to read the full story.
https://11thframe.com/news/article/10104/Ball-companies-have-until-March-15-to-respond-to-USBCs-latest-proposed
>The United States Bowling Congress has sent updated proposed specification and rule revisions to bowling ball manufacturers, who have until March 15 to offer feedback.
Considering how much the USBC has their hands in the ball manufacturers pockets this should be interesting. Good thing went on a ball buying spree when I did.
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So what are the latest proposed ball specifications that USBC is sending to the ball companies? I saw this article but I don't have a subscription to read the full story.
https://11thframe.com/news/article/10104/Ball-companies-have-until-March-15-to-respond-to-USBCs-latest-proposed
I'm not able to upload it directly here so I put it at this link:
https://www.scribd.com/document/372942166/USBC-Proposed-Ball-Specification-Changes-Letter-to-Manufacturers-Jan-16-2018
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Well at least so far they haven't messed with diff limits which was just solving a problem that doesn't exist but for me this is almost worse as I tend to use balance holes on a fair number of my pieces.
>Elimination of hole for balance purposes in USBC certified competition effective August 1, 2020
Guess the PSOs are going to get a bunch of plug and possible re-drill business. One positive I will say is that oil absorption test is long overdue and about the only thing they should be looking to change but even then only going forward.
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Honestly, with all the tech work ball companies have done in the last 20 years, these changes will be little more than inconsequential.
People have been lead to believe they need much more exotic drilling’s than they actually do. Some do need the help, but those are very, VERY few and far between.
If people just stay calm and don’t lose their minds over this, they will soon see what I mean.
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Honestly, with all the tech work ball companies have done in the last 20 years, these changes will be little more than inconsequential.
People have been lead to believe they need much more exotic drilling’s than they actually do. Some do need the help, but those are very, VERY few and far between.
If people just stay calm and don’t lose their minds over this, they will soon see what I mean.
I agree. They're going to test oil absortion which is a decent start, but the other stuff is relatively meaningless.
The part I'm wondering about is eliminating balance holes. That creates an issue with "no-thumb" bowlers that use their thumb for spares
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Elimination of hole for balance purposes in USBC certified competition effective August 1, 2020
That would eliminate 9 of 12 balls that I own which is not acceptable. Without some kind of grandfather clause then this will be the end of my USBC competition and membership. I will seek nonsanction play after that date.
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So the date is 2+ years out, and there is this much complaining?
In my current lineup, I have 1 ball that's going to not be allowed, and it would probably be on it's way out as soon as I get my Shadow Ops.
I can hear Mo's tears falling now.
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Ok, so up to 3 ounces on statics and more more balance holes? Should be interesting
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So if you have a ball that has a balance hole and you plug that hole is it possible that it will be legal since the static weights are increased to 3 ounces under the proposed rules?
Updated Proposed Change #1:
USBC proposes the following changes to Drilling Specifications:
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Increasing the balance tolerances for static weight (side weight, thumb/finger weight and balls without holes) to 3 ounces (for balls weighing more than 10 pounds).
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Elimination of all balance holes.
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Honestly, with all the tech work ball companies have done in the last 20 years, these changes will be little more than inconsequential.
People have been lead to believe they need much more exotic drilling’s than they actually do. Some do need the help, but those are very, VERY few and far between.
If people just stay calm and don’t lose their minds over this, they will soon see what I mean.
For me personally its less what I lose with the balance hole and more the pain in the ass in time and money it will be to plug existing balls and then have semi ugly plug(s) in even more of my balls. But as you say change is inevitable even if joining a sanctioned league isn't. Overall the rule changes are less onerous than I was assuming. Still the rule changes really should have only affected the ball makers and those that don't are more about ego and flexing a muscle than fixing any problems. Balance holes aren't exactly some new invention.
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So if you have a ball that has a balance hole and you plug that hole is it possible that it will be legal since the static weights are increased to 3 ounces under the proposed rules?
Updated Proposed Change #1:
USBC proposes the following changes to Drilling Specifications:
•
Increasing the balance tolerances for static weight (side weight, thumb/finger weight and balls without holes) to 3 ounces (for balls weighing more than 10 pounds).
•
Elimination of all balance holes.
Yes, it is.
That’s why I said to stay calm and not lose your minds.
Many balance holes are there to bring balls into compliance with current rules of 1oz or less if finger/thumb/side weight.
Mine have holes they currently need. Once these rules go into effect, I can plug the holes, and they will still be legal. They will then have over 1oz sideweight, but less than 3oz.
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TL;DR simple balance hole plug annoying but beats ball bans.