BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: thewhiz on May 20, 2017, 01:20:57 AM
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How long does an Abralon Pad last? Seems like I only get a few uses out of mine. I have a spinner and if I use it on there to do my ball after a half-dozen times the pad is done. I wet it before each use also.
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might want to try and get a spray bottle with water and spray the ball while you sand it.
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+1thats what I do, and they last a little longer.
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4000 grit pads last 3-5 uses. Period. You can tell with 4000 more easily than other grits, because when it's done, the result is a polished finish rather than a dull one. (Siaair pads last a little longer, say 4-7 uses.)
Duller grits last a little longer, but it's harder to tell when they migrate to a finer grit level.
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That's crazy those things should last longer than that.
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4000 grit pads last 3-5 uses. Period. You can tell with 4000 more easily than other grits, because when it's done, the result is a polished finish rather than a dull one. (Siaair pads last a little longer, say 4-7 uses.)
Duller grits last a little longer, but it's harder to tell when theymigra5te to a finer grit level.
The above is pretty accurate. At the lower grits, I rarely get more than 10 uses out of a pad. I'll average 7 uses from a Siiair pad before it's evident that the original grit is at least degraded.
Crazy or not, that's the life span of these abrasives.
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For the price of Abralon pads learn to like wet/dry paper. It may not be as cool, but for what it costs you don't mind using a fresh corner every time you touch the ball.
Save the pads for by hand surface adjustments when you don't have access to a spinner.
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Not sure what wet dry paper is. You mean sand paper? Is that the same as Abralon pads?
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Not sure what wet dry paper is. You mean sand paper? Is that the same as Abralon pads?
Wet/dry sandpaper is sandpaper that can be used wet. It usually has a stronger paper or cloth material than sandpaper meant for dry sanding; wet/dry sandpaper usually uses silicon carbide as the abrasive.
It is not the same as Abralon, but uses the same abrasive. Sandpaper usually comes in the full range of grits, from 30/40 to 5000 grit, whereas Abralon, Siaair and Jost pads come in a much smaller range of grit levels.
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Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to experiment with different types of things, you never know what will work/ not work.
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I'm interested in getting my hands on some ICE pads. New finishing system from 900 Global and it's replacing the NEAT system. I is 1500, C is 2000, E is 3000.
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Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to
Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to experiment with different types of things, you never know what will work/ not work.
I can only guess it's a matter of pressure. The harder you press, the faster the abrasive particles break down. If you recall on of the Abrasive pad videos, only very light pressure caused the pad to create a surface closest to the actual grit level.
On the other hand, since I use so many balls at 4000 grit, they need touching up constantly. Many times I don't use the spinner, except as a base to do the refreshing of the surface by hand, with a damp pad.
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Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to
Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to experiment with different types of things, you never know what will work/ not work.
I can only guess it's a matter of pressure. The harder you press, the faster the abrasive particles break down. If you recall on of the Abrasive pad videos, only very light pressure caused the pad to create a surface closest to the actual grit level.
On the other hand, since I use so many balls at 4000 grit, they need touching up constantly. Many times I don't use the spinner, except as a base to do the refreshing of the surface by hand, with a damp pad.
I'm a believer in using light pressure, but I usually use firm pressure if using a 360 if totally redoing a ball, then medium pressure with the next grit, and finally very light pressure for the finish grit.
Charlest, I haven't seen the videos you're referring to. Any chance you can direct me to them?
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Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to
Jeff, you must find some very good Abralon pads at 4000, because for the life of me, I can not get more than 1 USE out of a Abralon pad. Now for the siaair pads, it's a DIFFERENT story, I can get 3-6 uses out of that type ; It's so good to experiment with different types of things, you never know what will work/ not work.
I can only guess it's a matter of pressure. The harder you press, the faster the abrasive particles break down. If you recall one of the Abrasive pad videos, only very light pressure caused the pad to create a surface closest to the actual grit level.
On the other hand, since I use so many balls at 4000 grit, they need touching up constantly. Many times I don't use the spinner, except as a base to do the refreshing of the surface by hand, with a damp pad.
I'm a believer in using light pressure, but I usually use firm pressure if using a 360 if totally redoing a ball, then medium pressure with the next grit, and finally very light pressure for the finish grit.
Charlest, I haven't seen the videos you're referring to. Any chance you can direct me to them?
Sorry, I didn't save it. I think it was by either Innovative or Jayhawk. It showed the application of a 750 grit pad to a ball and the various grit results when scanned by the Ball Surface Scanner. So, it was probably Jayhawk. Check out their 2 videos on this page for the Surface Scanner:
http://www.shop.jayhawkbowling.com/Jayhawk-Ball-Surface-Scanner-15-7000.htm (http://www.shop.jayhawkbowling.com/Jayhawk-Ball-Surface-Scanner-15-7000.htm)
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Thanks, I'll give them a look.
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Didn't really find any good vids regarding pad pressure when sanding a ball, but I did find this old post here on BR that was from a study that BTM did. It deals with pads, application technique, and how that affects the ball surface. Pretty interesting. Here's a link to the post.
http://www.ballreviews.com/coverstock-preparation/anybody-read-the-btm-article-on-surface-article-inserted-t308227.0.html (http://www.ballreviews.com/coverstock-preparation/anybody-read-the-btm-article-on-surface-article-inserted-t308227.0.html)
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Mine will last about that long, but it also depends on pressure, how many sides of the ball you resurface, and the amount of time.
I go medium pressure or less, 6 sides, and about 20 seconds per side. Your mileage will vary.
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How long does an Abralon Pad last? Seems like I only get a few uses out of mine. I have a spinner and if I use it on there to do my ball after a half-dozen times the pad is done. I wet it before each use also.
4-6 uses if your careful.
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from my experience I can sand a ball on the spinner with 4000 and the ball looks polished but then sand the same ball with the same pad by hand and the ball will end up dull. speed and pressure have a lot to do with the final finish. I suspect that's why the skip a grit procedure came about. neither technique either by hand or by spinner is as the factory finish so just find a way to resurface to your liking. when final sanding by hand I find the dead pad actually does the job.
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Recently got a spinner and have a variety of different options for changing surface. I will say the Abralon pads I have had the longest and seen how you can use them up pretty easily even by hand. The NICE pads are nicer (and pricier) because they leave less sanding marks and so far haven't come close to wearing either the 1500 or 4000 I have out (supposedly 5x longer than Abralon but Abralon much better for sanding without a spinner imho). When it comes to maximum longevity though if I had to guess pretty sure its going to by the Trizact 3000 sander disk (usually used for auto body work) I got off the internet to be the last I throw away. Right up there will be the different color scotch brite pads (not the ones you clean dishes with, have to get from hardware store or internet, the brown 240 grit one cost me $10 for a single, but only use that one for a serious resurface). Especially if you get a five pack like I did of the more commonly used colors (maroon, light grey which are cheaper). Scotch brites do tend to leave sanding marks though so they are usually not ideal as your final step if you care about that. Also I do all my sanding wet (or at least moist with a spray bottle). It makes more of mess but does allow your pads to last longer from what I hear.
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Mildly off topic but didn't want to start a whole thread but finally got myself some simple green today for giggles and have to say using it mixed 1 to 1 with water instead of straight water when resurfacing a ball via a spinner is the bomb. Really felt like it did a better job getting all the track out and considering its fairly cheap I figure it can't hurt. Have clean and dull coming which is more ideal especially early on in the resurface but as poor man's solution it ain't bad.
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Any one know what material the cutting particles are in the abralon pads? I was thinking of just using fine aluminum oxide polishing films I use for polishing fiber optic ends from my work, and it comes in all grit sizes.
Also, as far are pulling out the oil, is simple green or another cleaner as good as the Reacta foam and shine products? 95.5% isopropyl alcohol any good/bad?
A lot of times, things like these are sold for less money under other names, and company just repackage it and charge more for the same things.
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Polishing films are probably overkill for a bowling ball. The grits I'm seeing online are much finer than you are typically going to use on a ball.
The cleaner thing has been debated to death. Everyone has their own opinion. As an insider I've seen everything from Resolve carpet powder to cat litter/sawdust to simple green and alcohol relabeled and marketed as a bowling product.
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Any one know what material the cutting particles are in the abralon pads? I was thinking of just using fine aluminum oxide polishing films I use for polishing fiber optic ends from my work, and it comes in all grit sizes.
Also, as far are pulling out the oil, is simple green or another cleaner as good as the Reacta foam and shine products? 95.5% isopropyl alcohol any good/bad?
A lot of times, things like these are sold for less money under other names, and company just repackage it and charge more for the same things.
I initially bought a quart of Monster Tac (seems water based) and that is what I use at the lanes on all my expensive balls and the balls I drag out every now to roll just to keep them from sitting too long. I do use regular old 91% iso alcohol at the lanes (bought cheap 4oz plastic spray bottles to hold) on my (new) Blue and Burgundy hammers which are my work horse balls. It does work awesome to remove oil and belt marks and seems to be as effective as the Monster Tac (and unlike simple green never have to mix or worry about a film). My only worry is perhaps it might dry out the cover stock (possibly make more brittle?) but if the balls are in the oil several times a week like mine are and each cost less than $100 new no point in spending $1 an oz on cleaner. The thing I really like about rubbing alcohol is being able to spray liberally and not worry about cost. I use simple green and water when resurfacing or cleaning with my spinner because friction and alcohol as well as an big electric motor right there just sounds like a bad idea and the Monster Tac is hideously expensive. Going to start using Clean and Dull periodically as well. When I use up the Monster Tac probably not buying more and will just use iso on all my balls. From what I understand as long as you use the alcohol religiously at the lanes and hit your balls with C&D at most every 15 games you don't need to worry about using the rejuvenator but we shall see.
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I guess my recommendation to anyone wanting to use 91% iso is use it on your spare ball first and see if you like it. At $2 a quart not much to lose by trying especially if your ball is polyester.
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Some people will degrade them... as a 1000 pad wears, make it a 2000 pad...as a 2000 pad wears, make it a 3000...etc...
I get about 10 uses out of a pad....you may be pressing too hard....and use a ton of water with pads....
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Finally got some C&D today and its official as far as I am concerned that only abrasive pads remove true track marks. C&D is just another surface cleaner (citrus based cleaner gel) that doesn't magically remove oil from deep in the ball (towel had nothing on it after cleaning). Or at least if it does the 91% iso I have been using religiously after every set didn't leave any oil for it to remove. Stuffs pricey so honestly I think going to save it for adding to brillo pads when i resurface. I call bullsh1t on having to use it once a week though if you are taking the time to do a proper cleaning at the lanes. I do believe it cleans well and it certainly more pleasant to smell that most cleaners. It has it's place I suppose but for everyday cleaning on the spinner the half water half simple green is just as effective and a hell of a lot cheaper.
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Finally got some C&D today and its official as far as I am concerned that only abrasive pads remove true track marks. C&D is just another surface cleaner (citrus based cleaner gel) that doesn't magically remove oil from deep in the ball (towel had nothing on it after cleaning).
Clean'N Dull has been used by many on this forum for years, I myself have used it since the days when it was under the original A.P.P. banner.
It is one of best cleaners on the market and one of the few that penetrates and removes oil (oil track lines as can be seen below) from the cover of a ball.
oil track lines soaked into the cover:
(https://s5.postimg.org/lod7va5c7/cndvsenerg.jpg)
What it does not do is remove track wear, that has to be removed by abrasives.
(The name is misleading, a lot players think it means it dulls the ball like a abrasive but it doesn't. The original marketing just meant it to mean it leaves dull balls dull it doesn't change the surface.)
Clean'N Dull Used with a proper ball maintenance regimen can eliminate or at least reduce the need for oil extractions.
Using it once a week is not a hard and fast rule. How often you use it, depends on the conditions you bowl on and your personal cleaning regimen.
Yes it's expensive, but a little goes a long way.
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Rubber marks alcohol will get but C&D sure didn't take out the oil tracks on my Blue Hammer and I followed the directions and even went a full minute a side on my spinner. Heck I haven't even been able to remove them with reacta shine either and its abrasive (edit: actually I used Black Magic XL instead now I think about it which is supposed to clean and polish but no abrasive). The only thing that removed them was maroon scotch brite but they came back very quickly. Something about that ball and that weird urethane mild reactive mix in the cover stock just brings tracks out quicker than any ball I have ever seen.
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Rubber marks alcohol will get but C&D sure didn't take out the oil tracks on my Blue Hammer and I followed the directions and even went a full minute a side on my spinner. Heck I haven't even been able to remove them with reacta shine either and its abrasive (edit: actually I used Black Magic XL instead now I think about it which is supposed to clean and polish but no abrasive). The only thing that removed them was maroon scotch brite but they came back very quickly. Something about that ball and that weird urethane mild reactive mix in the cover stock just brings tracks out quicker than any ball I have ever seen.
1. Don't use C&D with a spinner. People have had strange results doing that. Apply it by hand, using a rubber glove to protect your skin, let it sit on the ball slowly rubbing it on the surface for about 45 seconds per side. Keep the side wet with C&D, do not let it dry. Then remove it with a damp paper towel. Then remove the dampness with a dry paper towel. Then do the other side. Those are the instructions from the original manufacturer, APP, Advanced Polishing Products.
2. C&D will remove any and every oil mark. Period. End of story. Like Aloarjr, I have used it since day 1. There is no oil it will not remove from a bowling ball . So what you had was not an oil "mark".
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I'll third this. C&D is the craziest cleaner I've ever used. Pulls everything out when used correctly.
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Ok so I followed charlest directions to the tee twice and as the pictures below show no dice. First picture is before I started.
(https://pasteboard.co/1DkKH4cuf.jpg)
2nd picture is after cleaning twice per Charlest directions.
(https://pasteboard.co/glqYhhQeQ.jpg)
3rd picture shows the other side of the ball for some perspective (and to show track is only one side).
(https://pasteboard.co/glt4aGimn.jpg)
The last picture is just to show its clean and dull I used.
(https://pasteboard.co/glwYQYN4F.jpg)
Edit: including one last picture showing track lines I am talking about more clearly. Taken between first and second cleaning.
(https://pasteboard.co/glOy3wdZF.jpg)
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JLS, I agree with your comment!!! When a pad wears down I still use them. 1500 might become closer to 2000 and so on. I use them alot by hand.
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Ok so I followed charlest directions to the tee twice and as the pictures below show no dice. First picture is before I started.
Frankly I can't particularly see any lines in those pics.
But considering how polished that ball is, I'd say what your probably seeing is track wear not oil.
Being polished that would explain why it (the track lines) come back so fast also, polished ball will show wear faster than a dull ball. Especially if your bowling on a dry condition.
Ultimately though if Clean'N Dull or any cleaner doesn't do what you want, don't use it.
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That is very possible which is what I kind of suspected but its amazing how fast those lines appear on that ball (cover stock maybe a bit soft on that ball). Going to be a fact of life with it I suppose. I have to keep that one polished up heavy due to mostly having spare ball duties so makes the tracks even more visible. Decided to drop my Burgundy Hammer back down to factory 500 grit dull tonight so will get to see the magic of the C&D on a refinish which is still how I plan on mostly using it. I change surfaces often so my guess is that will be its sweet spot for me. I appreciate the pointers on how to use and especially on avoiding using too much. When the ball is sticky after wiping yeah you have used too much.
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That is very possible which is what I kind of suspected but its amazing how fast those lines appear on that ball (cover stock maybe a bit soft on that ball).
You should watch this video, in it you can see just how fast a surface changes.
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I was actually more comparing it to my old polyester spare ball which obviously has a harder coverstock but even it gets track lines polished but takes a bit longer. Yeah most bowler don't understand that factory finish they quote goes away in 3 games and spikes in the 5000s in pretty short order. Big reason I got a spinner (that and hate blisters). Figure with religious lane side cleaning when done, frequent surface changes along with the C&D that I won't much have to worry about bathes or ovens.