Author Topic: Teams over the league max. (Read 5983 times)

THSOWL · « **on:** September 02, 2013, 08:42:15 PM »

Last week was the first week of my winter league. We have a maximum entering average of 1050 with handicap at 90 percent of 230. After two games secretary calls a meeting to say that several teams are a few pins over the maximum. Captains vote to allow those teams to continue to stay together with no penalty. No one on either team averages over 230 so the extra pins will be offset by handicap. So at 1055 team will give up an extra 4 pins. No big deal.

Today I looked at the recap sheet online and saw that a separate team used some subs and were almost 30 pins over the cap with three guys over 230. Two of them were subs. Nothing about this team was mentioned in the meeting. I feel like this team is taking more advantage of the league than the other teams. Since it takes a 100 percent vote to change the rule I plan to vote not to raise the entering average for this last team. I believe this means they will have to throw out the subs and use a vacant score of 150 or forfeit all the points. They won all of their games. Sparks are going to fly.

What would you do?

Dave81644 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2013, 09:44:21 PM »

tough call, but certainly someone was not being honest when the meeting was called.
Or maybe they didnt know the entering average of the subs.
In my league, if you are over by 1 pin, you forfeit all points.
A little harsh and they have a tough time keeping that league together.

Another idea might be to give back 100% of the pins that you are over the cap.
Im sure this will come up again this year.
One team might have to get by on subs for several weeks, never know, injury, illness, etc.

An offer for a solution might be better than a straight up confrontation where many feelings are bound to get hurt

billdozer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 03, 2013, 12:37:47 AM »

Negative pins?

So if their team average for the night is 1105..that team gets -50 to their total? Idk if a rule like that could be implemented, but it would reward those abiding by the average cap.

dwandel · « **Reply #3 on:** September 03, 2013, 03:50:49 AM »

I do not believe that you can have a sub on the first night of bowling. Until a bowler bowls a game and pays his sanction he is not officially on the team.
This came up in my league last week. this is a USBC rule and not a league rule.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2013, 09:09:32 AM »

Negative pins is what I have seen in leagues with caps. Though those leagues were scratch leagues. So if a team's average is 1100 with a 1050 max, then you have a -50 for each game.

batbowler · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2013, 09:12:16 AM »

We don't allow subs in our bowling center! They have to be a roster bowler and go from team to team! We've had trouble with that in the past and bowlers didn't want to pay league fees and just free bowl without joining a team! We have the bowler use their last years average as their entering average and the only people setting an average is bowlers who haven't bowled in our center! We're the only center in our small town and that's a little different than have six or more centers in your association! I did bowl in a league in a small town in Indiana that used a team cap! Their rule was a sub couldn't have a higher average than the person they were subbing for and that's how they kept team within the team cap rule! Just my $.02, Bruce

trash heap · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2013, 10:29:08 AM »

Why have a team max if it is a handicap league?

trash heap · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2013, 10:38:50 AM »

This is incorrect:

Quote from: dwandel on September 03, 2013, 03:50:49 AM

I do not believe that you can have a sub on the first night of bowling. Until a bowler bowls a game and pays his sanction he is not officially on the team.
This came up in my league last week. this is a USBC rule and not a league rule.

USBC Rules State:

Quote

Commonly Asked Questions â€“ Rule 105.

105/1 If a rostered bowler is absent the first night of bowling, is an absentee or vacancy
score used?

An absentee score is used unless otherwise provided by league rules or past precedent established in the league. If there is a question as to whether the individual absent is a member of the teamâ€™s roster, the league board of directors decides the matter.

It's up to the board of directors to decide. Also as far as a Sub on the first night. Nothing in USBC Rules against it.

If you look over the rules, the USBC wants to give every possible chance for a team to a have full roster each night to compete. That's why there are subsitiutes and allowance of additional team members. USBC also prefers to keep the competition going even when one member is absent on a team. Absentee and Vacancy Scores under USBC Rules includes handicap (Most leagues modify these rules).

Steven · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2013, 10:46:22 AM »

I don't know why people make this stuff more complicated than it really is. Subs should have to fit within the original team entering average relative to the max. Period.

You start making exceptions, and it becomes a slippery slope where the credibility of the league ends up getting flushed down the toilet. You don't want to go down that path.

trash heap · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2013, 10:48:03 AM »

Quote from: Steven on September 03, 2013, 10:46:22 AM

I don't know why people make this stuff more complicated than it really is. Subs should have to fit within the original team entering average relative to the max. Period.

You start making exceptions, and it becomes a slippery slope where the credibility of the league ends up getting flushed down the toilet. You don't want to go down that path.

True. Why have the rule and then make exceptions with Subs?

Jesse James · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2013, 12:43:32 PM »

In my opinion, there should be an automatic forfeiture regarding the team with subs that broke the max rule......and it should not require a 100% vote, only a majority ruling. With 100% rule.....it would only take one member of the team creating this infraction to veto any ruling.

swingset · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2013, 01:08:35 PM »

Quote from: batbowler on September 03, 2013, 09:12:16 AM

We don't allow subs in our bowling center! They have to be a roster bowler and go from team to team! We've had trouble with that in the past and bowlers didn't want to pay league fees and just free bowl without joining a team! We have the bowler use their last years average as their entering average and the only people setting an average is bowlers who haven't bowled in our center! We're the only center in our small town and that's a little different than have six or more centers in your association! I did bowl in a league in a small town in Indiana that used a team cap! Their rule was a sub couldn't have a higher average than the person they were subbing for and that's how they kept team within the team cap rule! Just my $.02, Bruce

Are all your sentences meant to indicate strong feeling or excitement, or you do use exclamation points instead of periods?

batbowler · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2013, 06:41:07 PM »

Whatever works and I see it did!! lol
Sorry, I get carried away when I get excited. Talking about bowling has done that for me over the years.

Author Topic: Teams over the league max. (Read 5983 times)

THSOWL

Teams over the league max.

Dave81644

Re: Teams over the league max.

billdozer

Re: Teams over the league max.

dwandel

Re: Teams over the league max.

spmcgivern

Re: Teams over the league max.

batbowler

Re: Teams over the league max.

trash heap

Re: Teams over the league max.

trash heap

Re: Teams over the league max.

Steven

Re: Teams over the league max.

trash heap

Re: Teams over the league max.

Jesse James

Re: Teams over the league max.

swingset

Re: Teams over the league max.

batbowler

Re: Teams over the league max.