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Author Topic: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt  (Read 9008 times)

gradilonec

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explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« on: December 09, 2014, 08:28:17 AM »
Every pro shop owner I've gone to has been confused as to how I could track so low, but only have between 9-11* tilt.   They've watched me bowl, but no one, including myself can figure it out.  Anyone have any typical reasons for this?

It also has made layouts somewhat of a guessing game.  I've found one layout that I have on almost all my equipment, but it was a shot in the dark and ended up liking.

Stats:
218avg
19.5mph
395rpm
tract: low/extreme low
tilt: 9-11*
PAP: (have to double check later)

Any opinions are welcome

 

avabob

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 12:35:52 PM »
Nobody has mentioned this, but I always view tilt, and axis tilt which comes from circling the ball at release.  Enough axis tilt and you are throwing a semi spinner, and the track starts to get smaller.  Not really sure how you express this in a number, but think of spinning the ball by circling it.  With no forward motion the ball is spinning on small spot directly under the center of grip.  Add forward motion and friction starts to create more roll and less spin.  However theoretically it would be possible to throw a ball with zero initial PAP, although it would quickly migrate towards the preferred spin axis. 

When I was young we all threw semi rollers with more tilt than we do today, because most of us who were not full rollers came from a thumb position of as much as 2 oclock.  Thus we were circling and lifting to create hook.  More circling the wrist and less lift equated to more tilt and a lower track.  More lift combined with circling raised the track. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 12:38:01 PM by avabob »

trash heap

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 02:54:56 PM »
Nobody has mentioned this, but I always view tilt, and axis tilt which comes from circling the ball at release.  Enough axis tilt and you are throwing a semi spinner, and the track starts to get smaller.  Not really sure how you express this in a number, but think of spinning the ball by circling it.

The tilt number would be represented in the size of the track. Circumference of a bowling ball is 27 inches:

- An initial track of 27 inches going around the ball (a full roller) would be 0* tilt.
- 22 inches would be 17* tilt.
- 13.5 inches would be 45* of tilt (doubt anyone has that low of a track).



As the track decreases the tilt increases.

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gradilonec

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 03:08:17 PM »
Not always true, just as Fagan and even myself disprove that notion

trash heap

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 03:11:49 PM »
It's science.
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trash heap

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2014, 03:42:03 PM »
Take the thumb and finger holes out of the ball.

Imagine someone throwing and rotating a ball on a flat surface. The ball flares in no way shape or form. It stays on its "INITIAL TRACK" for many revolutions after the person throws it.

As that ball is rotating. It has a:
- PAP (Positive Access Point),
- Axis Rotation (Horizontal Rotation), Side Roll
- Axis Tilt (Vertical Rotation), Spin

It is a SPHERE! It is impossible to have a low tilt (0* - 10*) and the track be very low too.

Today's bowlers fall into  0* - 17* tilt range. Get above 20* of tilt and you are getting into more of spinner type release.
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gradilonec

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2014, 03:48:29 PM »
So explain Fagans 3.5 pap low track but full roller, or my 4 1/8 low track but single digit tilt

itsallaboutme

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2014, 04:17:54 PM »
tilt and axis point are independent numbers.  Tilt is the size of your track, PAP is where the axis is in relation to your grip.

avabob

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2014, 04:20:19 PM »
Actually, by definition you cant have a 3.5 inch PAP and throw a full roller.  A full roller tracks between the thumb and fingers, putting the PAP approximately 6 3/4 inches from centers of grip.   The fact that a ball can track so far from the fingers like Fagan, and still be the full circumference is a product of the modern so called, less is more release that has become the norm for top players.

trash heap

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2014, 04:40:02 PM »
Many people can have the same PAP and all of them have different tilt.

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JustRico

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2014, 05:30:25 PM »
Full roller is referencing the size of the track not the location
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trash heap

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2014, 08:42:11 AM »
Full roller is referencing the size of the track not the location

and the size of the track determines the tilt.

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gradilonec

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2014, 09:29:04 PM »
yes, but the discussion isnt just about the size of the track but the location.

itsallaboutme

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2014, 05:52:44 AM »
nobody can tell you why your track is in the location it is unless we see you pry your mitt out of the ball.

avabob

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Re: explaination for very low track but average/low tilt
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2014, 04:58:08 PM »
Traditional full roller was almost always between thumb and fingers.  Agree that it is a full circumference, but until the modern dynamic cores came in, it was almost impossible to create a full circumference track with enough axis tilt to get the track outside the thumb.  Thus this thread has come full circle.  Tilt comes from counter clockwise wrist rotation, while a full roller cannot have counter clockwise wrist rotation.